Ohio City Tax Oddity

steingar said:
This smells. Anything with any real weight comes certified. They can't prove you received a damn thing (unless they recorded your phone call, oops). Moreover, they can issue all the Ohio warrants they like, you live on a farm just outside Bumphuck West Egypt. You weren't in a hurry to go back to Ohio anyway, you didn't like it.
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Not really true on the certified mail piece (though a common misconception). The IRS even sends "pay us" correspondence via regular USPS First Class mail. Lots of "official" business gets conducted via First Class mail, including court papers (which in some cases and in some states can be at least partially served via First Class mail via "nail and mail" rules).
 
bradg33 said:
Not really true on the certified mail piece (though a common misconception). The IRS even sends "pay us" correspondence via regular USPS First Class mail. Lots of "official" business gets conducted via First Class mail, including court papers (which in some cases and in some states can be at least partially served via First Class mail via "nail and mail" rules).
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Maybe, but if I didn't sign for it I can say I never saw it.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Interesting. So since I moved in 2015, that would've put earlier this year as 3 years past tax due date, and therefore outside of the limitations. So if I try to fight the assessment (other than with a "**** off" legal letter) it looks like I basically waive the statute of limitations.

The misdemeanor is perhaps more concerning since that could have some implications.
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If you haven't filed a return that was due, the statue of limitations possibly hasn't begun to run on any unpaid taxes. First I would contact an Ohio CPA, and second I would ignore anyone who tells you to ignore the letter because it didn't come certified mail. If you have a problem, you have a problem. And the lack of a certified mail sticker won't make it go away.
 
Lindberg said:
If you haven't filed a return that was due, the statue of limitations possibly hasn't begun to run on any unpaid taxes. First I would contact an Ohio CPA, and second I would ignore anyone who tells you to ignore the letter because it didn't come certified mail. If you have a problem, you have a problem. And the lack of a certified mail sticker won't make it go away.
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But he said he filed. Prove filing and they can't touch him. Prove no income in 2016 from Ohio, same thing.

This situation is another reason I did not go into tax practice. This kind of stuff irritates me.
 
This is for a State income tax or a city earnings tax?

edit: never mind, I re-read the thread title.
 
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Omalley1537 said:
Very strange. It seems like that would be something they’d do if other means had failed over a period of time.
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Tax evasion is criminal. The question becomes how far would the pick up radius of a warrant extend. Unlikely a city in Ohio would pay the expenses to bring you from California.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
But he said he filed. Prove filing and they can't touch him. Prove no income in 2016 from Ohio, same thing.
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Maybe. It might be as simple as filing a 2016 return showing no tax due. Or amending the 2015 return to show that he moved. Or maybe he screwed up and actually does owe but can get rid of the interest and penalties. An Ohio CPA should be able to review his filings and know which it is pretty quick. Everyone else is just speculating.
 
steingar said:
Maybe, but if I didn't sign for it I can say I never saw it.
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The follow-up, if you don't respond, may come certified mail.

I know I got a "pay up" letter from the IRS by regular first-class mail. But it wasn't nasty, or threatening to put me in jail. It simply pointed out that they had received a copy of a 1099 from a financial institution that I had not claimed as income on my tax return. It was a mistake on my part and I paid the tax on the amount. Granted, it wasn't a huge amount. It probably cost more for them to process than I had to pay.
 
EdFred said:
You guys didn't live in Cleveland. Tell them to pound sand, or just drop it in the shredder and forget about it.
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This is the one piece of advice that I absolutely would not follow.
 
steingar said:
Maybe, but if I didn't sign for it I can say I never saw it.
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In some cases it doesn't matter. Some rules/statutes provide that mailing via First Class is sufficient and service is complete/notice is deemed given x days after being sent via First Class mail. The rules don't always require proof of receipt (and the reality is the USPS doesn't truly lose much mail anymore, as long as it's addressed correctly).
 
bradg33 said:
In some cases it doesn't matter. Some rules/statutes provide that mailing via First Class is sufficient and service is complete/notice is deemed given x days after being sent via First Class mail. The rules don't always require proof of receipt (and the reality is the USPS doesn't truly lose much mail anymore, as long as it's addressed correctly).
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Until the plow truck sends your mailbox an eighth mile down the road and the contents are nowhere to be found. If it doesn't end up in my hands, I didn't receive it, statute or not. If it's that important then can spend the extras $ to make sure I get it.
 
EdFred said:
Until the plow truck sends your mailbox an eighth mile down the road and the contents are nowhere to be found. If it doesn't end up in my hands, I didn't receive it, statute or not. If it's that important then can spend the extras $ to make sure I get it.
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My point is that in some/many cases, the law doesn't care if you received it, only that it was sent.
 
bradg33 said:
My point is that in some/many cases, the law doesn't care if you received it, only that it was sent.
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Seems like a pretty good racket. "Yeah, we sent that," and as we know the USSC has ruled that the govt gets to lie while citizens do not.
 
EdFred said:
Seems like a pretty good racket. "Yeah, we sent that," and as we know the USSC has ruled that the govt gets to lie while citizens do not.
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Typically at some point someone will have to swear, under oath/penalty of perjury, that it was mailed to you on X date (usually in the form of an affidavit or declaration). Despite what you may think of the government, not too many individuals are willing to lie under oath like that.
 
bradg33 said:
Typically at some point someone will have to swear, under oath/penalty of perjury, that it was mailed to you on X date (usually in the form of an affidavit or declaration). Despite what you may think of the government, not too many individuals are willing to lie under oath like that.
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There's ways around that though. All you have to do is write down than you sent it. Then when you testify, you say that you wrote down that you sent it. "It is documented that I sent it." You aren't lying in that you wrote that down. And if pressed you respond with "I cannot recall, that's why I wrote it down."
 
bradg33 said:
My point is that in some/many cases, the law doesn't care if you received it, only that it was sent.
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Yep. You can’t get away with pretending you didn’t receive it.
 
Rushie said:
Yep. You can’t get away with pretending you didn’t receive it.
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But what if you never did? That's happened at our office a number of times, both coming and going. Or we end up with a "double" letter. 2 of them adhered together, one addressed to us, one not. If they want to know you received it, are want to make sure of it because it's that important, send it registered. Hell even the FAA aeromedical sent me registered, and it wasn't even for me to give up my medical.
 
EdFred said:
But what if you never did? That's happened at our office a number of times, both coming and going. Or we end up with a "double" letter. 2 of them adhered together, one addressed to us, one not. If they wont to know you received it, send it registered.
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That’s right. Our mail service here is terrible for some reason. They’re always losing mail, delivering it to the wrong address, claiming falsely that we rejected delivery and returning it to the post office making us have to go pick it up, and sometimes just failing to come around at all on some days.
 
Rushie said:
That’s right. Our mail service here is terrible for some reason. They’re always losing mail, delivering it to the wrong address, claiming falsely that we rejected delivery and returning it to the post office making us have to go pick it up, and sometimes just failing to come around at all on some days.
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Might want to talk to the postmaster about those issues.
 
bradg33 said:
Doesn't matter under a lot of statutes/rules. As long as they sent it, their obligation is satisfied.
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Which is horse**** if it involves notices or possible fines.
 
My reality on things like this is I feel a need to resolve them out of concern for unintended consequences. I just spent a year convincing the IRS that I didn't owe $30k of additional income tax for 2016. If you have documented facts on your side, it may take a while, but ultimately you will prevail.
 
The State of Ohio sent me a First Class letter a couple of months ago that I hadn’t filed my 2016 tax return. Interestingly, I had received a refund from Ohio that year and had a bank record that showed the direct deposit. I sent a copy of both via signature required delivery and have heard nada since.

Cheers
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I lived in City A and worked in City B. City A is the one complaining, but I filed in both City A and B.
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The Taxing Authority is called RITA, Regional Income Tax Authority. In essence, the tax is higher than if you live and work in the same city. You pay more in taxes in Ohio if you live in one city and work in another. RITA always gets her money.

The simple solution for me was using a payroll company. AHOLA is who I used.

As an addition, I received a tax due letter the year after I left Ohio.

I called the City of Cleveland Heights and asked to talk to the lady who signed the letter.

I told her in no uncertain terms that I moved back home to Texas. I told her that I never intended to return. I held no property there, no relatives there, and no fond memories there.

It has been 13 years since I left. I do not miss the snow or the taxes.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Interesting. So since I moved in 2015, that would've put earlier this year as 3 years past tax due date, and therefore outside of the limitations. So if I try to fight the assessment (other than with a "**** off" legal letter) it looks like I basically waive the statute of limitations.

The misdemeanor is perhaps more concerning since that could have some implications.



I'm not sure what you mean there.
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It's just with all the "have you ever" type questions on the medical and the mention of warrants and charges up thread I'm always concerned with how the FAA might react. If it went poorly enough to result in a misdemeanor conviction you'd then be explaining it at your next medical application. Seems like a slim chance, but I don't trust these crooks when it comes to money grab tactics. I also don't trust the FAA to understand about money grab tactics.
 
Clip4 said:
Tax evasion is criminal. The question becomes how far would the pick up radius of a warrant extend. Unlikely a city in Ohio would pay the expenses to bring you from California.
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I get that, but initially I don’t believe it’s pursued that way unless there are factors to indicate willful non-payment vs negligent. In Ted’s case, it seems like they went straight from notify to criminal in one fell swoop.
 
steingar said:
Yup. But you have to prove I'm lying. If I stick the letter in the fireplace where it belongs nobody's going to prove anything.
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Not really sure what your end game is here. I mean, it's not like judges haven't encountered that strategy before. You really think a judge is going to let you ignore their judicial power just by doing that? Most are pretty full with the power of their position. Sure, you might be able get a reprieve from a default. Once. But you will ultimately have to deal with the substance of the action at some point.
 
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Lindberg said:
Notifying you that you've committed an offense is rarely a prerequisite to prosecuting you for it.
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I was unaware that due process is no longer existent. Good to know.
 
Lindberg said:
Notifying you that you've committed an offense is rarely a prerequisite to prosecuting you for it.
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Exactly. The offense here is not ignoring the first class letter notifying you of the deficiency. The offense would be failing to file tax returns and to pay owed taxes. If they think that you did that, it's irrelevant whether you responded to their letter demand for payment. If you ignore this, they move to phase II. They will then decide whether to press charges. There are rules regarding how they have to serve the warrant for your arrest, or in the alternative, a summons to appear. When the time comes, if they proceed criminally, they will properly serve you. It may be that they need to extradite if you refuse to cooperate. They would then have to decide whether they intend to do so. Anyone here think that the taxing authority wouldn't bother with extradition if they think you owe a lot of taxes? Anyone here know what the maximum threshold of alleged outstanding taxes is for Ohio to just ignore it and move on?
 
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