Oh, that is how pilots land gear up!

I

I'm a Dumbarse

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Cruisin in to my destination after a long XC, cleared to land a ways out approaching downwind on a relatively small strip, decide to make a short approach and dive bomb it in. Know my plane pretty well and its energy management needed to still have a nice touchdown without a long stable approach.

Cross the threshold leveling off and damn I am fast, can't get this thing to slow down. Touch down WAY fast as I am running out of runway. Not pretty, but plant it and turn off with out incident but a bit of pucker factor trying to figure out what went wrong.

Cross the hold shot line, reach down to raise the fla....oh s#!t...I forgot flaps on the landing!

Thought to myself "glad I was not flying a retract today!"

Not that a no flap landing is a big deal, but I was sure anticipating the performance of full flaps at touchdown with my maneuver.

And that kids is how complacency kills.
 
I'm a Dumbarse said:
Cruisin in to my destination after a long XC, cleared to land a ways out approaching downwind on a relatively small strip, decide to make a short approach and dive bomb it in. Know my plane pretty well and its energy management needed to still have a nice touchdown without a long stable approach.

Cross the threshold leveling off and damn I am fast, can't get this thing to slow down. Touch down WAY fast as I am running out of runway. Not pretty, but plant it and turn off with out incident but a bit of pucker factor trying to figure out what went wrong.

Cross the hold shot line, reach down to raise the fla....oh s#!t...I forgot flaps on the landing!

Thought to myself "glad I was not flying a retract today!"

Not that a no flap landing is a big deal, but I was sure anticipating the performance of full flaps at touchdown with my maneuver.

And that kids is how complacency kills.
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Speaking of dumbarses and retracts; did an IFR missed approach yesterday. Everything went perfectly except that on climb-out I was making less 75kts (ground speed). Yeah, I was in a 1,000fpm climb with a headwind, but I can't remember the last time the Bo went less than 80 in the air so I started and checking and (face-palm); the gear was still down. Oh well, at least I remembered to lower the gear in the fist place.

I guess that is what practice is for. Still new to this IFR thing and trying to hone the skills before I need them in real life.
 
JOhnH said:
Speaking of dumbarses and retracts; did an IFR missed approach yesterday. Everything went perfectly except that on climb-out I was making less 75kts (ground speed). Yeah, I was in a 1,000fpm climb with a headwind, but I can't remember the last time the Bo went less than 80 in the air so I started and checking and (face-palm); the gear was still down. Oh well, at least I remembered to lower the gear in the fist place.

I guess that is what practice is for. Still new to this IFR thing and trying to hone the skills before I need them in real life.
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:yeahthat:, BTDT...:yes:
 
Meh, in lots of RGs if you were to dive bomb, first thing you'd do is lower the gear to get to VFE, if you somehow forgot gear, you'd probably also no be rocking any flaps, and you'd zoom right past the runway
 
In 2001, I lost my engine about 600' in the air and teardropped it back to the field, as I'm looking like I'm going to make the runway I say "what am I forgetting?" Oh yes, gear. That's as close as I ever came.

When I lost the engine enroute last fall, I decided to make it "just like a normal landing" so the gear was part of my normal flow.
 
Since I got instructions in RG ( I had Arrow for 5 years and a Lance for last 9 years ) I have close to 2000 landings in RGS. I was told to lower gear first in order to slow don and that has worked really good so far. As I get close to airport first thing I do is slow the plane to GES and I reach for the gear by reflex.
 
Alas, the Navion gear speed is real slow (87 knots). While it's a great spoiler for steepening the descent (the Navion with full flaps and gear has a pretty dramatic approach angle), you don't use it for a speed brake on approach.
 
blueskyMD said:
Since I got instructions in RG ( I had Arrow for 5 years and a Lance for last 9 years ) I have close to 2000 landings in RGS. I was told to lower gear first in order to slow don and that has worked really good so far. As I get close to airport first thing I do is slow the plane to GES and I reach for the gear by reflex.
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That's exactly it. I treat the gear as the first set of flaps.
 
blueskyMD said:
Since I got instructions in RG ( I had Arrow for 5 years and a Lance for last 9 years ) I have close to 2000 landings in RGS. I was told to lower gear first in order to slow don and that has worked really good so far. As I get close to airport first thing I do is slow the plane to GES and I reach for the gear by reflex.
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I like the idea. In the 310 you gotta get the first notch of flaps in to slow enough to gear speed. 180 1st notch, 160 gear and remaining flaps. Hard to descend and slow without the gear and at least 1st notch of flaps.
 
flyingron said:
Alas, the Navion gear speed is real slow (87 knots). While it's a great spoiler for steepening the descent (the Navion with full flaps and gear has a pretty dramatic approach angle), you don't use it for a speed brake on approach.
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Must be an old airplane thing. Swift has similar speeds.
 
I'm a Dumbarse said:
Cruisin in to my destination after a long XC, cleared to land a ways out approaching downwind on a relatively small strip, decide to make a short approach and dive bomb it in. Know my plane pretty well and its energy management needed to still have a nice touchdown without a long stable approach.

Cross the threshold leveling off and damn I am fast, can't get this thing to slow down. Touch down WAY fast as I am running out of runway. Not pretty, but plant it and turn off with out incident but a bit of pucker factor trying to figure out what went wrong.

Cross the hold shot line, reach down to raise the fla....oh s#!t...I forgot flaps on the landing!

Thought to myself "glad I was not flying a retract today!"

Not that a no flap landing is a big deal, but I was sure anticipating the performance of full flaps at touchdown with my maneuver.

And that kids is how complacency kills.
Click to expand...
Just another reason for a stabilized approach.
You sort of buried yourself on that one.
 
Not sure how a long stabilized approach would have changed that.

Had a DC-9 go gear up in Houston a while back. FO is going "hey the thing isn't slowing down" and the captain's response was pretty much "My airplane" and proceeded to gear it up. Forgot to turn up the hydraulics. At least on the Navion, you can't move the gear handle if you forget to turn the hydraulics on (well sometimes you can, but if you do you probably managed to drop the gear anyhow).
 
There is a solid case for the Cherokee retracts that automatically drop the gear below a given air speed. At the least it saves the "egg on your face" problem.
 
Norman said:
There is a solid case for the Cherokee retracts that automatically drop the gear below a given air speed. At the least it saves the "egg on your face" problem.
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Until it drops the gear on you when you are in a climbing turn at Vx, trying to avoid terrain after going missed.
 
steingar said:
Swinging the Johnson bar in the Mooney is quite an event. Hard to believe I'd forget it.
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I talked to a guy flying a 201 a couple of weeks ago. His dad used to have a Mooney too and one day they were coming home in pretty bad weather (somewhere in Indiana IIRC). They made 2 missed approaches and on the 3rd time broke out right at the minimums when he noticed that the gear horn was blazing. He yelled, "Dad, the gear!" and the dad was like "shut up son, I'm busy". He finally managed to attract dad's attention to the problem when they were over the threshold. Dad swung the Johnson bar in the flare and they plopped down successfully. When they shut down, there was (allegedly) an 18 inches long icicle protruding from the tip of the spinner. This may be an old anecdote or may be truth, but then I saw a video of people ignoring gear horn and bellying it in.
 
While the Navion is in restoration, my neighbor is letting me fly his M20C. The Johnson Bar gear is taking some getting used to but I'm finally getting the leverage I need on it. He's a lot shorter than me and the mechanics to do this are different for the two of us.

I don't think the 201's (M20J) had Johnson bars. Mooney went all electric in 1974 and the 201 came out in 77.
 
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flyingron said:
While the Navion is in restoration, my neighbor is letting me fly his M20C. The Johnson Bar gear is taking some getting used to but I'm finally getting the leverage I need on it. He's a lot shorter than me and the mechanics to do this are different for the two of us.

I don't think the 201's (M20J) had Johnson bars. Mooney went all electric in 1974 and the 201 came out in 77.
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I doubt this is what you're doing that's causing the headache but ... the wind resistance to the mechanism is a lot higher at speed than slow.

Slow up and the Johnson bar is a lot easier to deal with.

Just for posterity's sake.
 
Having the preload set properly on the mooney gear makes an enormous difference in the difficulty of engaging it in the gear down position. i think that only helps for the last 4 or 5 inches. If it's before that, the trick is simply to swing it quick in one motion. Don't do it slowly, just yank it and momentum will push it past the wind resistance quite easily.

I'm short and a weakling and I have no trouble at all unless I try to do it slowly - then it gets stuck about halfway....
 
Getting the gear handle moved through it's range of motions wasn't the problem. The problem was getting the latches at the end. I needed to get the right leverage on the sliding sleeve.
 
Yeah, getting it latched on the floor was a huge problem for me too. Go up with a proficient CFI (or your buddy if he can work the bar from the right seat). Once you see the sight picture of what it looks like it will help a lot. If the bar isn't fully locked give a push on it south of the collar. That'll get it to sit correctly.
 
flyingron said:
Getting the gear handle moved through it's range of motions wasn't the problem. The problem was getting the latches at the end. I needed to get the right leverage on the sliding sleeve.
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That's due to bad preload. Mine was like that when I bought it. I could barely engage it and only when I got my body in the perfect angle to force it in. After my first annual and proper preload adjustment it pops right in with minimal effort.
 
Norman said:
There is a solid case for the Cherokee retracts that automatically drop the gear below a given air speed. At the least it saves the "egg on your face" problem.
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And yet every Arrow I have seen with this system, has the system disabled permantly. ??? -Skip
 
I had the opposite problem. At KBDL, a Class C airport, we were in the run-up area, the ground controller gave us "Cleared for takeoff runway 23." He then explained that they had inbound traffic and if we could move right away we could go, otherwise wait. We went. On climbout, I was wondering why we were so slow... Duh! Gear still down!

Disrupting the normal routine is never a good idea! -Skip
 
Skip Miller said:
Disrupting the normal routine is never a good idea!
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That is often the problem. When your normal sequence is disrupted you can forget things. That is why my instructor always taught me to check the gear, and say "Three in the green over the fence". It forces you to double (triple) check on your final approach.
 
I'm happy to say I've only heard the gear warning horn in the Cardinal twice. Once during my initial checkout/complex endorsement and Once during a Flight Review.

I can't credit my memory for this success. The credit goes to my (paper) checklist and my old school CFI who was unrelenting on Do - Check - Recheck.
 
Ravioli said:
I'm happy to say I've only heard the gear warning horn in the Cardinal twice. Once during my initial checkout/complex endorsement and Once during a Flight Review.

I can't credit my memory for this success. The credit goes to my (paper) checklist and my old school CFI who was unrelenting on Do - Check - Recheck.
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Would love to talk to your mechanic. :) I hear mine all the time. The throttle setting has been adjusted at least 3 times, and it ALWAYS returns to a position that's about 17 inches at sea level.

It's not a good thing, since it makes me less likely to sit up and take notice. I've never come close to landing gear up because I'm always nervous about whether the gear will lock down (had a problem with that a couple of years ago). But never say never.
 
azure said:
Would love to talk to your mechanic. :) I hear mine all the time. The throttle setting has been adjusted at least 3 times, and it ALWAYS returns to a position that's about 17 inches at sea level.

It's not a good thing, since it makes me less likely to sit up and take notice. I've never come close to landing gear up because I'm always nervous about whether the gear will lock down (had a problem with that a couple of years ago). But never say never.
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Had the same thing in my Mooney. Gear horn was set to high it would come on during descents. Now fixed though.
 
"Gear down to go down" pops into my brain either at the FAF or downwind. It's worked so far, knock wood.
 
Salty said:
Having the preload set properly on the mooney gear makes an enormous difference in the difficulty of engaging it in the gear down position. i think that only helps for the last 4 or 5 inches. If it's before that, the trick is simply to swing it quick in one motion. Don't do it slowly, just yank it and momentum will push it past the wind resistance quite easily.

I'm short and a weakling and I have no trouble at all unless I try to do it slowly - then it gets stuck about halfway....
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ROFLMAO. Brings back a memory. I took that M20C I flew a bunch back in the day on a long XC and for the first time ever (fatigue I assume), I swung the gear slowly prepping to land at KDWH. And ... ended up in that halfway no-man's land.

That woke me up! It was a mad scramble to swing it backward far enough to get some momentum to puuuuush and get it to come all the way forward. Hahahah.

Wasn't so much a big deal as it was a surprise. Being vectored to final VFR. At an unfamiliar airport.

Quickly becomes one of those things you won't forget again...
 
I've had a couple instances on really hot days where my hand got too sweaty to move the bar. I recall amending to higher (and cooler altitude) once and having a friend do it on another. Lets hear it for CRM!
 
Gordon Baxter (I have no direct experience) said you could dip the nose slightly and use the momentum to help swing the gear up and vice versa coming down. Maybe it'll help...
 
steingar said:
I've had a couple instances on really hot days where my hand got too sweaty to move the bar. I recall amending to higher (and cooler altitude) once and having a friend do it on another. Lets hear it for CRM!
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I've suffered from Mooney envy on occasion, when I've felt "the need for speed" whilst slogging along in my Cardinal RG. But stories like this make me think I made the right decision after all!
 
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