Observations About Aircraft Sellers (Year 2014)

JoseCuervo said:
Nobody wants 56 years of logbooks scanned at this time, but there is some period of time that is relevant. In the plane with "no damage history" according to the Broker, but yet there is an NTSB report of "substantial damage" 6 years ago, it would seem reasonable to want to see the airframe book for the last 8 years.

But, if you are going to have to make them available, sooner or later, might as well start scanning now...
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Couldn't agree more. And, some sellers indicate a plane has XYZ but then it is inop. Or they list a Garmin 430, but don't specify if it is a WAAS GPS.
 
JoseCuervo said:
I will give the benefit of the doubt, before I call the Broker a liar. I am going to guess that he didn't have access to the Logs, because the Seller "couldn't be bothered" to scan the books and share the information with the Broker.

So, he didn't know about the damage history.

It just goes to my point, the Seller selling directly, or thru a Broker, he will still have to share information. The more information he shares, the more accurately the Buyer can make an informed decision on the next step.
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Had that exact issue with a Pathfinder. Listed NDH, but when you pulled the records, it had severe damage 10 years previously. Seller claimed he didn't know about it. Its a waste of my time as a buyer.
 
asgcpa said:
Had that exact issue with a Pathfinder. Listed NDH, but when you pulled the records, it had severe damage 10 years previously. Seller claimed he didn't know about it. Its a waste of my time as a buyer.
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Again, people like that are being dishonest. When an airplane has been the airplane has been the subject of an NTSB report and the current owner 'did not know', that is BS. If they are going to try and hide that in order to get someone to bite, what else are they hiding?

Its another one of those cases where unless it is a VERY rare airplane, it is best to keep looking.
 
EdFred said:
Also don't keep me on the phone for an hour and a half and then ask if there's an autopilot, when #1, it's not listed - and I listed everything, and #2 it's your ****ing primary consideration when buying a mother****ing plane.

You're wasting my time.
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Jhernandez04 said:
This has got to be one of my favorite posts in a long time. That ****s funny, I dont care who you are.:rofl:
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Especially if you read it in a Samuel Jackson voice...
 
Fearless Tower said:
Again, people like that are being dishonest. When an airplane has been the airplane has been the subject of an NTSB report and the current owner 'did not know', that is BS. If they are going to try and hide that in order to get someone to bite, what else are they hiding?

Its another one of those cases where unless it is a VERY rare airplane, it is best to keep looking.
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Well this Deb I looked at at my home field with 2 partners looked great until we got into the logs. First thing I noticed was a prop AD that wasn't disclosed that looked like it would come up in a month. Tony S. suggested I call Henning and I sent Henning the logs. Dude spent 3 hours looking it over. Pointed out some things I didn't know. Then I found out more things, i.e. altimeter wouldn't pass IFR cert, owner had asserted that until this past year plane was always hangered....found out who was A&P form log, called the A&P and was told that plane had only been hangared since the new paint job 6 years previous. That kind of dishonest garbage ****es me off. I had the $ all lined up. But don't waste my time if you are not going to be honest. I think doing a 337 search and most recent logs within last 5 years are a good place to start.
 
Bill Jennings said:
That, and logs lie, or better yet, don't lie.

We sent two birds home that were represented as NDH and had no damage noted in the logs. Once the wing inspection panels and belly pans were off, the previous damage was evident.

"Wow, I never knew my plane was damaged!"

Uh huh, take your bird and go home.
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When shopping for my current plane, I decided that all retract planes off +55 years old have been on their belly at some time in the past. If not, it would be a miracle, or it was fixed and not logged as such.
 
JoseCuervo said:
Nobody wants 56 years of logbooks scanned at this time, but there is some period of time that is relevant. In the plane with "no damage history" according to the Broker, but yet there is an NTSB report of "substantial damage" 6 years ago, it would seem reasonable to want to see the airframe book for the last 8 years.

But, if you are going to have to make them available, sooner or later, might as well start scanning now...
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No it wouldn't, it would be foolish at this point to continue with the deal without the plane in front of you, if at all.
 
asgcpa said:
Couldn't agree more. And, some sellers indicate a plane has XYZ but then it is inop. Or they list a Garmin 430, but don't specify if it is a WAAS GPS.
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If it's WAAS, they will designate it as a 430w, if the w isn't there, assume no WAAS.
 
Henning said:
Doesn't matter, it's never a shopper's market though because shoppers aren't serious buyers, they are always looking for a better deal. Shoppers want to see everything about every plane that will be on the market for the foreseeable future because they want to make sure that they get the best deal ever. If you're a serious buyer, you'll ask a few questions and go look and see what's actually there.

This is all part of why I say, "Buy your last plane first." Buying a plane is an expensive risky proposition, even if everything checks out ok, that is no guarantee that it won't cost you another $30k to get it home. The funny thing is most of the people who call me are buying their second or subsequent aircraft and know what a time and travel hassle it is to do right and having someone do the legwork for them is a bargain. Right now I'm on an 80' yacht getting it ready to ship to Italy, the new owner hasn't seen it yet and won't until its ready to go into service in the Med.
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Would that be the Malaysian surfing boat?
 
When I decide to go look at an airplane, I expect to see the logs in their entirety allong with any other paperwork, 337s STCs etc.
And I kinda expect the logs to reflect the condition of the airplane.
But I got had on a C-150 a couple years ago. Some things I didn't see untill first annual after we bought it. Then I went digging. And found out things that are not reported on the CD, and weren't in the logs either. But bent oilbags, and wrinkled firewalls, led to the N-number search on the NTSB site. This poor little thing had led a hard life, and none of the repairs were recorded in the logs. No wonder it shook worse than Katherine Hepburns head in a helicopter.
Well we got it's logs straightened out, and flew it for a while before selling it to the person who crashed it for the last time.
Can an airplane just simply be jinxed?
 
Tom-D said:
Want to sell your aircraft? ya gotta deal with the public, you'll never please them all.
When you think about how stupid the average buyer is, believe that half of them are dumber than that.
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Yep! We wanted to take on a third partner in our Cherokee 180, had a guy offer us a 430W for part of his buy-in. Hey, Great!! C'mon down and have a look at it.
I met him, he's a wormey lookin' kinda guy, with shifty eyes.
His first words were "there's no headrests" and "where's the shoulder harness?" It's a '63 180 fer cryin' out loud ! I told him that we want shoulder harness, and will be using part of the buy-in to install them.
Then he goes on about lack of headrest. Then sits in the plane, works the fuel selector, and remarks that he can't feel the "click", Cheeze-O-Pete, I can hear the click in cruise flight with headset on, and ATC jabbering. Then he reaches up to turn the trim knob, and remarks that the overhead trim is un comfortable for him. (by this time I'm ready to hand him his arse) Then he starts talkin' about airbags, And BRS. Come to find out he's an ambulance chaser. I told him to leave, and never darken my door step again. He shoulda been lookin' at SR22, instead of '63 PA-28-180.
 
My pet peeve is be able to tell me what the useful load is with full fuel and sending me years old pictures while saying it looks the same.....
 
I'll add one to this. I emailed a person today about his plane. Still hadn't heard back. Okay I can see that. So then just now I called the number on the ad and it's his work/office phone and I've called outside business hours. Really..so how does one get a hold of you on the weekend. How about you leave a cell number or a home phone. Oh well..
 
N2124v said:
My pet peeve is be able to tell me what the useful load is with full fuel and sending me years old pictures while saying it looks the same.....
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You want full fuel payload, useful load doesn't take fuel into account, payload does.
 
A great deal of what's for sale is so old now that it's a real crap shoot. I know several instances where serious repairs were never entered. Airplanes that are 40-50 years old usually have had some " unusual occurrences" to say the least,and have probably had undocumented repairs. Probably wise to have a pro inspect things very carefully before rushing into anything. I learned this the hard way with a Cessna 195 in the 80s. Trusted the seller. He was a liar. Cost me a lot. Ruined the airplane for me. Sold it.
 
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