O2 on the cheap

MooneyDriver78

MooneyDriver78

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Tom
Has any tried one of the Oxygen in a can products?
They are advertised as for athletes, quick boost of energy.
I thought they might be handy if I'm cruising above 10,000 ft, and need a little O2. Obviously they wouldn't be good for when full time Oxygen is required.
They claim to be 95% Oxygen.
 
Doubt it would last long. Likely little more than a kids toy.

You want o2 on the cheap, do this:
Go on ebay or craigslist and buy:
1-2 small o2 tanks for the plane.
1-2 300 cu ft cylinders to use as supply to refill the small plane tanks.
a transfill adapter.
a couple regulators - i like the pulse 5 regulators (around $50 on ebay)
a couple nasal cannulas.

You can refill the large tank for about $30 at airgas and use it for hundreds of hours.
 
FORANE said:
Doubt it would last long. Likely little more than a kids toy.

You want o2 on the cheap, do this:
Go on ebay or craigslist and buy:
1-2 small o2 tanks for the plane.
1-2 300 cu ft cylinders to use as supply to refill the small plane tanks.
a transfill adapter.
a couple regulators - i like the pulse 5 regulators (around $50 on ebay)
a couple nasal cannulas.

You can refill the large tank for about $30 at airgas and use it for hundreds of hours.
Click to expand...
As I mention in the OP, I'm not cruising at high altitudes where constant use is required, they don't have to last long, and at $10/can for ~50 shots would be more than enough. Just long enough to get my O2 % up and improve my night vision.
 
I think Sporty's sells the little cans like you're asking about. Can't hurt to buy one and try it. I'd also suggest you buy a pulse oximeter and check your O2 sat a few times on the ground to establish a baseline, and then try it again at 9500 feet with no O2, then take a couple hits from the can and see if it actually helps. Post your results!
 
FORANE said:
Doubt it would last long. Likely little more than a kids toy.

You want o2 on the cheap, do this:
Go on ebay or craigslist and buy:
1-2 small o2 tanks for the plane.
1-2 300 cu ft cylinders to use as supply to refill the small plane tanks.
a transfill adapter.
a couple regulators - i like the pulse 5 regulators (around $50 on ebay)
a couple nasal cannulas.

You can refill the large tank for about $30 at airgas and use it for hundreds of hours.
Click to expand...

What's a good source for the required transfillers without paying the aviation extortion fee some suppliers seem to add?
 
teejayevans said:
As I mention in the OP, I'm not cruising at high altitudes where constant use is required, they don't have to last long, and at $10/can for ~50 shots would be more than enough. Just long enough to get my O2 % up and improve my night vision.
Click to expand...

At 10Kft, it would be much cheaper and longer lasting if you would simply take in faster and deeper breathing.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I think Sporty's sells the little cans like you're asking about. Can't hurt to buy one and try it. I'd also suggest you buy a pulse oximeter and check your O2 sat a few times on the ground to establish a baseline, and then try it again at 9500 feet with no O2, then take a couple hits from the can and see if it actually helps. Post your results!
Click to expand...

Speaking of which....

I just ordered a pulse oximeter from Concord for $25 with free shipping. I'm sure it's not Nonin quality, but hey...figured it was worth a shot!

https://www.concordhealthsupply.com/Concord-Basics-Finger-Pulse-Oximeter-by-Contec-p/cci-50dl.htm
 
teejayevans said:
As I mention in the OP, I'm not cruising at high altitudes where constant use is required, they don't have to last long, and at $10/can for ~50 shots would be more than enough. Just long enough to get my O2 % up and improve my night vision.
Click to expand...
You may be at a lower altitude than the FAA requires o2 use, but that does not mean you are free of the effects of hypoxemia. We are pretty healthy yet when we used a pulse oximeter we were surprised to see low readings even at altitudes below 10,000 msl.

Briefly looking at the can o2 it appears they might have enough for a few minutes use. Sure, it would help for a few minutes. That is not long. When o2 is turned off, the pulse oximeter reading will not remain elevated for hours; rather, it will drop within about 1 minute.

Best advice I could offer would be to spend the money on a pulse oximeter first. You can get inexpensive ones on ebay. Then, if you demonstrate the need for o2 at the altitude you wish to fly, explore supplemental o2.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I think Sporty's sells the little cans like you're asking about. Can't hurt to buy one and try it. I'd also suggest you buy a pulse oximeter and check your O2 sat a few times on the ground to establish a baseline, and then try it again at 9500 feet with no O2, then take a couple hits from the can and see if it actually helps. Post your results!
Click to expand...
I did all of the above except the O2 in a can part, just didn't want to waste my time/$ if they were a complete ripoff.
It's interesting to note that my copilot who competes in iron-man competitions and myself who gets tired just watching people running had the same O2 stats 91%, but his heart rate was lower than mine. Both our heart rates were 10-15 beats above normal.
 
I got flamed by Dr. Bruce for this same type of question except I included a short climb over bad weather. Lol....

General consensus is don't go above 12.5k without a real supply of O2
 
Jhernandez04 said:
I got flamed by Dr. Bruce for this same type of question except I included a short climb over bad weather. Lol....

General consensus is don't go above 12.5k without a real supply of O2
Click to expand...
You don't even need O2 if its less than 30mins and below 14k?

I'm going to experiment to find my own thresholds.
 
I will usually wear a cannula anytime I cruise above 9k.

Cheap and easy.
 
Perri-air?
 
Yes! I purchased two cans of the BOOST Oxygen in a can. The larger ones. I also have on board Oxygen in my T182. I bought the oxy in a can before I bought my airplane and I feel it may have possibly saved my life. I was flying a 172 at 6500 MSL and the carbon dioxide detector went off and I smelled smoke leaking into the airplane. I closed the vents, opened the windows and pulled that can out of my bag. I used it the whole way back to the airport. The can says you get up to 150 inhalations. I'd say its worth a shot if you just want to try it out.
 
teejayevans said:
You don't even need O2 if its less than 30mins and below 14k?

I'm going to experiment to find my own thresholds.
Click to expand...

I've gone to 14k sans O2 long enough to get across Lake Michigan. It's never what I'd call comfortable at that altitude, but one time in particular was more uncomfortable - Heart felt like it was beating harder (not faster, but "harder") and fatigue that was already present before takeoff got slightly worse. I was sure happy to come down on the other side.

Now, flying a plane with built-in O2, any time I'm going to cruise above 11K - And sometimes even at 11K - I'm on the go-gas. Makes a world of difference. Still haven't had to fill the tank in 1.75 years and when I do it'll be under 40 bucks. Practically free in aviation terms! That's what I call O2 on the cheap. Beats the heck out of having a loose tank and hoses running all over the cockpit.
 
LDJones said:
Is that the style of connector for a typical welding oxy bottle?
Click to expand...
The CGA540 is the one typical on welding oxy bottles. Again I have two 300 cu ft bottles which last a very long time - as in years for me.
The CGA870 fits the small oxygen tanks which I carry in the plane. I carry M6 oxygen tanks in the plane.
 
I believe the military (VERY YOUNG AND HEALTHY KIDS :D) requires O2 above 8K. There is a reason for that. ;)

Just invest in an O2 system you can really use. Climb up to 15K and kick back and enjoy the ride. Not much traffic up there. :no:
 
Of course you have to ask yourself how much O2 you're going to use. I've got a 22 cuff cylinder with the nelson conserving regulators. It lasts a good long time even with rather liberal use. The cost of a transfill adapter and whip alone will run me a couple of bottle fills even at the FBO.
 
Some times I think pilots have a disconnect of how high 12,500' is. Trying going for a hike in the mountains at the tree line, and how long it takes to recover. Add a few years under your belt and the effects can become quit sever. Granted, sitting in a plane is not like hiking, but the effects on judgment, endurance, alertness, is real.

I put on 02 when ever I am above 10K. Makes trips much more enjoyable and I arrive refreshed not tired.

YMMV. :D
 
And for the guys who want to just try it....the FIRST symptom of hypoxia is that you get dumb as a post. Occupational hazard for astronomers, especially visiting.
 
teejayevans said:
Has any tried one of the Oxygen in a can products?
They are advertised as for athletes, quick boost of energy.
I thought they might be handy if I'm cruising above 10,000 ft, and need a little O2. Obviously they wouldn't be good for when full time Oxygen is required.
They claim to be 95% Oxygen.
Click to expand...

O2 on the Cheap - get a big plastic bag and before takeoff fill it up with air and close it tightly. When you reach 10K just stick your head in the bag when you need some O2. Now that is Cheap!!!:D:)
 
MAKG1 said:
And for the guys who want to just try it....the FIRST symptom of hypoxia is that you get dumb as a post. Occupational hazard for astronomers, especially visiting.
Click to expand...

I misread that the first time as "you get dumb and then you post (on the internet)."

But seriously. We were bopping along at 11K one day and my wife thought that she was getting a little hypoxic (she was flying). I got up on my knees to fish the O2 tank out of the back seat and just that exertion got me breathing heavy so I had to admit she was probably right.

If I intend to be above 8K I have it accessible. In fact, when flying IFR and planning to go high, I don the canula on the ground. Then I only have to reach down and click the flow on when I get to altitude.
 
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Geico266 said:
I believe the military (VERY YOUNG AND HEALTHY KIDS :D) requires O2 above 8K.
Click to expand...


When I was in (70s & 80s), it was above 10k, not 8 (cabins were kept at 8) or when you hadn't recovered from your hangover or last nite's party (regardless of altitude)
-- especially true for those doing SEA duty in the late 60's | early 70's
:yikes:
 
flyingron said:
Of course you have to ask yourself how much O2 you're going to use. I've got a 22 cuff cylinder with the nelson conserving regulators. It lasts a good long time even with rather liberal use. The cost of a transfill adapter and whip alone will run me a couple of bottle fills even at the FBO.
Click to expand...

This. The Mooney's tank is 115 ft^3 IIRC, and that lasts a long time. Fill at the FBO is something like 35 bucks. They use pretty much the exact "Dr. Bruce" setup, with four large tanks. They have the whole rig mounted on a small trailer so they can bring it right to your plane.
 
I remember the last 10 years of my mom's life she was on what was called an "oxygen concentrator" with a cannula type apparatus she used all day long. Exactly what is a concentrator and would it be of any use in this arena.

Power supply aside.

Jim
 
An oxygen concentrator pumps oxygen through a chemical bed that primarily absorbs the nitrogen yielding a higher O2 concentration than normal air. The problem is that most of them aren't designed to work effectively over 10,000 feet (they have been designed/approved for use on airliners with cabin pressures of 8000').
 
flyingron said:
An oxygen concentrator pumps oxygen through a chemical bed that primarily absorbs the nitrogen yielding a higher O2 concentration than normal air. The problem is that most of them aren't designed to work effectively over 10,000 feet (they have been designed/approved for use on airliners with cabin pressures of 8000').
Click to expand...

I do a lot of stuff that isn't "designed" to work at FL350 but have no reason to believe that it will not. I'm curious now if one of them could be used (legality aside) as an oxygen enhancer. How might we test such a device to see if it will work, and what the limitations really are.

Jim
 
I believe there is a concentrator designed for the sr22t. Uses a selectively permeable membrane and pressure pump.
 
weilke said:
I believe there is a concentrator designed for the sr22t. Uses a selectively permeable membrane and pressure pump.
Click to expand...

I'm presuming it is selective enough to separate N14 from O12. I have no idea what an sr22t is. Care to educate me? And, it sounds like we are starting to build a system for a KC135, not J3.

Jim
 
weirdjim said:
I'm presuming it is selective enough to separate N14 from O12. I have no idea what an sr22t is. Care to educate me? And, it sounds like we are starting to build a system for a KC135, not J3.

Jim
Click to expand...

Cirrus SR22 Turbo.
 
weirdjim said:
I do a lot of stuff that isn't "designed" to work at FL350 but have no reason to believe that it will not. I'm curious now if one of them could be used (legality aside) as an oxygen enhancer. How might we test such a device to see if it will work, and what the limitations really are.

Jim
Click to expand...

They will not work at FL350 (at least outside of pressurization). They have an anemic pump about as powerful as the one driving the little clam in your aquarium that drives the input air through the zeolite beds. They're just not designed, nor will they work if the outside pressure isn't reasonable.
 
weirdjim said:
I'm presuming it is selective enough to separate N14 from O12. I have no idea what an sr22t is. Care to educate me? And, it sounds like we are starting to build a system for a KC135, not J3.

Jim
Click to expand...

Cirrus SR22Turbo. The system is independent from the aircraft and marketed as Inogen G3, works up to 15k ft.

I just finished a weeklong trip with the kids for spring break. 3 FBOs along the way were not set up to fill the built in O2. The advantage of a concentrator system is that you are not dependent on the FBO infrastructure for fillups. The Inogen system Is expensive but would amortize for someone who uses oxygen on most flights (eg to maintain night vision during flights > 10k). I like to fly above the bumps but both me and my wife get hypoxia headaches. The kids just fall asleep and stay up for the night that follows :)
 
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Has anybody used one of these things yet?

My regulator has been acting up and am again looking at an oxygen concentrator for the plane. The Inogen G3 mentioned is tested to function at 15K and their G2 model (a little too large for me) is tested to 18K.

There is one from the UK called the AirSep Focus rated to 12K but may work at higher altitudes. This thing is really tiny. Would be perfect if it supplied 3 litre flow up to 15K or so.

Anyway . . . anybody had any experience yet with one of these things?
 
The Sporty's cans work for about 10 minutes. If you get a regular bottle get a big one. They usually charge me $20 to $40 to fill it regardless of how much it holds. Get a 24 cu ft or larger. The aviation FBO fill stations sometimes have the CGA870 medical nozzle, but they ALL the aviation FBO's have the normal aviation nozzle CGA540, so it is easier to get the CGA540 for me. I can get it filled at all the FBO's that have oxygen. Getting oxygen wholesale in a big bottle usually involves bottle swapping, two HUGE bottles you leave in your hangar, each with their nozzle etc and a fill your own bottle you fill from the huge ones. Very involved. Worht it if you use a lot of oxygen.
 
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Has anybody used one of these things (oxygen concentrator) yet?

My regulator has been acting up and am again looking at an oxygen concentrator for the plane. The Inogen G3 mentioned is tested to function at 15K and their G2 model (a little too large for me) is tested to 18K.

There is one from the UK called the AirSep Focus rated to 12K but may work at higher altitudes. This thing is really tiny. Would be perfect if it supplied 3 litre flow up to 15K or so.

Anyway . . . anybody had any experience yet with one of these things?
 
FORANE said:
Doubt it would last long. Likely little more than a kids toy.

You want o2 on the cheap, do this:
Go on ebay or craigslist and buy:
1-2 small o2 tanks for the plane.
1-2 300 cu ft cylinders to use as supply to refill the small plane tanks.
a transfill adapter.
a couple regulators - i like the pulse 5 regulators (around $50 on ebay)
a couple nasal cannulas.

You can refill the large tank for about $30 at airgas and use it for hundreds of hours.
Click to expand...
In my experience, AirGas will only fill AirGas tanks.
 
Airgas is by far the worst supplier I have dealt with. I own a fabrication shop, so I buy pressurized gasses frequently. Every time I have attempted to offer Airgas my business they have made me regret it. That said if you have a "customer owned" tank they should fill it. I have had problems with that as well though.

Every other welding gas supplier has been a breeze. Thankfully there are several near me and I just pick the cheapest place. I pay about $20 to swap out a full size oxygen tank for a full one. I don't even bother with the 2 cylinder cascade setup to fill. You certainly get more life out of your tanks that way, but even with a single cylinder I'm able to get 5-6 fills of my small tank before the pressure gets down too much. You end up returning half full bottles, but when the FBO wants to charge $40-90 (yes the FBO at my field quoted $90) to fill a small tank and you can get a big one for $20, you don't really cry about the wasted gas.
 
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