Novice here

[dannn2008]

An old friend of mine took me up in a Cessna a few times a few years back and it was awesome. I've considered pursuing my PPL many times since then but haven't really had the time/money. Lately I've been kinda bored with life so I figured I should look into this now I have plenty of questions...


1.) The minimum flight time to get a PPL is 40 hours. I've read that people usually do about 15-20 hours with an instructor before they can fly solo. Is there a minimum for how many of those hours need to be with an instructor?

2.) I understand it is somewhere in the ballpark of $80-$150/hour to rent a typical 4-seater single engine Cessna wet (like a C172). Can you provide some real world examples with your approximate flight distance, time, and total bill from the FBO?

3.) Any tips on finding a flight school? I'm in the Cleveland, OH area and I know there's a few at Burke Lakefront but I haven't contacted them yet. I think my choice will be whichever one is the cheapest.

4.) What do they do/check during the medical exam? I read something about 3 classes of medical certificates. Which one(s) is/are required for a private pilots license?


I have more questions but I'll just ask a few at a time. Thanks in advance!!

 

[denverpilot]

An old friend of mine took me up in a Cessna a few times a few years back and it was awesome. I've considered pursuing my PPL many times since then but haven't really had the time/money. Lately I've been kinda bored with life so I figured I should look into this now I have plenty of questions...

Did you also find some money? Heh heh.

1.) The minimum flight time to get a PPL is 40 hours. I've read that people usually do about 15-20 hours with an instructor before they can fly solo. Is there a minimum for how many of those hours need to be with an instructor?

The Instructors will pipe up here, but generally since you'll also need some not-insignificant amount of ground instruction on top of the flight instruction, just budget high. There's specific tasks and things an instructor must teach before solo, but not an hour number minimum. Think of your instructor as someone who's imparting knowledge you'll need to survive and be willing to pay for it. They have an interesting job, feeding you slowly a huge amount of information. Formal schools have written syllabi, and many good independent Instructors do too. Some just know what they're teaching cold, for those personal references of other students is a good way to find out if they're any good.

2.) I understand it is somewhere in the ballpark of $80-$150/hour to rent a typical 4-seater single engine Cessna wet (like a C172). Can you provide some real world examples with your approximate flight distance, time, and total bill from the FBO? [/QUOTE]

It can change at every airport and every school. Lower is good, but it's better to look for top-quality instruction first... they'll know where to find airplanes. That said, some places that get high marks for great instruction have some "well loved" airplanes you'd never want to be seen in, but are mechanically sound. Newer the airplane, generally the higher the price. In the end, they all fly. So decide if you need "pretty".

3.) Any tips on finding a flight school? I'm in the Cleveland, OH area and I know there's a few at Burke Lakefront but I haven't contacted them yet. I think my choice will be whichever one is the cheapest.

Not the right idea. Shop instructors, never airplane price. I'll let folks from that area speak up on who's near you.

4.) What do they do/check during the medical exam? I read something about 3 classes of medical certificates. Which one(s) is/are required for a private pilots license?

Here's the basics, straight from the FAA. For Private (not for hire) duties in light Certificated aircraft, a 3rd Class medical is all you need.*

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/aam/ame/guide/standards/

*There's another option here... Sport Pilots flying appropriately rated aircraft can self-certify their medical condition. And there's a Catch-22 hiding therein. If you flunk a 3rd Class, you now have evidence that you can't self-certify. So if you think you might flunk any of the items, talk to your Airman Medical Examiner first about it. They understand the situation. Most items you'd flunk on a 3rd Class are things that would make you morally think real hard about self-certification. And some items (like some milder color blindness cases) have special tests or demonstrated ability waivers available. Talk to the AME.

I have more questions but I'll just ask a few at a time. Thanks in advance!!

Ask away. And if you start shopping around for an instructor you'll find most are more than willing to answer basics like this. It's a good way to feel out whether or not you click with their speaking/instruction style.

 

[AuntPeggy]

Welcome to PoA. Welcome to flying.
These are just the first of a lot of questions you will have.
1a) Minimum regulation time before getting your license is 40 hours. Depending upon your aptitude and your instructors, that could increase.

1b) Time to solo also varies. Before solo, you need to have good control over climbs, turns, straight and level flight. You also need to be able to handle ground reference maneuvers, such as turning about a point, and able to control the aircraft through a stall recovery. You will probably find that your greatest challenges are takeoffs and landings. If you have the reflexes and eyesight of a 17-year-old who has been flying with Pops since he was three, and if you can fly every day, you could do it in just a few hours. If not, it takes longer. Your 15 to 20 hours sounds typical.

1c) By definition, all hours before you solo are with an instructor. If the instructor is not there, it is solo because you won't be taking up a passenger other than the instructor until you get your ticket.

1d) Usually about half of your pre-license hours will be dual.

 

[Dr. O]

Go to a flight school and negotiate a package price - so many hours of dual and so many solo for so many dollars - and a payment schedule (see below)...
Go to a Credit Union (skip the banks) and borrow the money...
FInd some extra work to help pay back the note...

Pay the flight school in 3 or 4 lump sum payments - say 25% up front, then when you are within five or ten hours of that another 25%, and so on...
This gives you some protection from the old vanishing flight school trick...
It locks in flight time at a discount price...
It allows you to move steadily towards your check ride without big holes in time because of no spare money...
It gives you motivation to keep going when you hit the slump and the "I'll never be able to do this" that all students hit - because you have borrowed the money up front...

Good luck and fair skies.. It is a big commitment... You will join the less than one half of one percent of the population who are pilots.

 

[TMetzinger]

Greetings and welcome to POA.

I always tell potential students that the FAA sets a minimum number of hours of instruction and that very few people achieve proficiency in that amount of time. There are many factors above and beyond your aptitude that affect the amount of time required.

For budgeting purposes, I recommend planning on 40 hours of instructor time and 60 hours of airplane time if you fly a minimum of one lesson per week. If you can free up a large chunk of time to concentrate solely on flying you can reduce those numbers significantly.

Using simulators such as the Redbird instead of the airplane can reduce overall costs as the time required to learn in the more expensive real airplane is reduced.

 

[flyingron]

Not just instructors, shop the whole package. Meet the instructor. Talk about the lesson plan (do they follow one of the canned 141 or their own program or do they just do the lessons ad hoc). Look at the schedules. Do you think that you will be able to get an airplane and instructor at the times you are available to fly. What do they have for ground school (both for written prep and pre/post lesson training)? Do they have examination authority on staff? What are the airplanes available and what condition are they in.

None of this has any absolute scaling. It's all a matter of how well a fit is it with you.
I've had some great training at a tiny little school with a few older Cessna 150's and kind of meh experience with fancier schools with more modern trainers. The sad truth is other than the Diamonds, nobody has built real "trainers" in 30+ years.

 

[dell30rb]

Call/visit the area flight schools and narrow it down to two or three. Tell them you are interested in lessons and ask if they have a 'discovery flight' available. It is usually a 30-45 minute flight plus an hour of instruction for around $100. Buy a discovery flight at each place you are considering and get a log book too. You can log the time as dual instruction toward your certificate, and you'll get to ride around with a few instructors, see different schools, and maybe fly a few different aircraft. If it is a four seat plane, you can bring your wife/kid/friend along too

Choosing a good flight school and instructor is very important. I think spending a few hours at each one and going on a flight will be enough to let you make a good choice..

New aircraft are great but don't pay a huge premium for a school with new equipment. Mostly put the emphasis on the school and instructor.

 

[Jim_R]

That said, some places that get high marks for great instruction have some "well loved" airplanes you'd never want to be seen in, but are mechanically sound. Newer the airplane, generally the higher the price. In the end, they all fly. So decide if you need "pretty".

Well....

I went though this choice for my PPL. On one side of the field, a nicely-painted gang hangar attached to the clean, neat FBO. The 172s for rent had GPS and leather seats, and were all less than 20 years old. Prices were high.

On the other side of the field, tired old gray sheet metal T-hangars with most rental planes parked out on the lawn. The 5 Tomahawks were 30 years old, and typically only 2 or 3 were flying at any time. Usually, the radio worked...sometimes, even the VOR did too. Prices were a lot cheaper than the other FBO.

I thought, "Eh, I don't need GPS, leather seats, or fancy hangars to learn how to fly," so I picked the Tomahawk place.

I did have good instructors and got my ticket in a reasonable time. However, toward the end I learned some horror stories about the place that made me finish up asap and never go back.

Don't judge a book by its cover...but don't ignore the possibility that a ratty cover and moldy pages might just indicate that the book is falling apart, either!

 

[bobmrg]

You definitely do not want to go the the cheapest school. Remember, you will be learning skills that might someday save your life and the lives of your passengers. Want to do that on the cheap? Bad idea.

Bob Gardner

 

[CBeaulieu]

Dan, I got my license in about 37 hours and in total paid around $6,000.00

I would suggest getting your medical after just a few lessons. You don't want to dump a ton of money into this only to find out you can't get a 3rd class for what ever reason (unlikely, though)

 

[gkaiser]

Dan, I got my license in about 37 hours and in total paid around $6,000.00

I would suggest getting your medical after just a few lessons. You don't want to dump a ton of money into this only to find out you can't get a 3rd class for what ever reason (unlikely, though)

How'd you get your license in 37 hours? Isn't the minimum 40 per FAA? I definitely agree though about getting your medical sooner then later. I have hypertension and had a bunch of hoops I had to jump through first in order to get my 3rd class medical.

 

[MAKG1]

I'd suggest looking well away from the lakefront. I suspect you'll have a lot of issues with lake effect weather, and onshore crosswinds. And the airspace appears to be a mess due to Hopkins.

 

[CBeaulieu]

How'd you get your license in 37 hours? Isn't the minimum 40 per FAA? I definitely agree though about getting your medical sooner then later. I have hypertension and had a bunch of hoops I had to jump through first in order to get my 3rd class medical.

Part 141

For an Airplane Single-Engine Rating
Total Time: 35 hours minimum this consists of the following:
Dual: 20 hours minimum with a Flight Instructor including:
~3 hours cross country flight training
~3 hours of night flight which includes a 100nm cross country and 10 landings
~3 hours of flight training by reference to instruments
~3 hours of test prep flight training within 2 calendar months of your practical test
Solo: 5 hours of solo flight consisting of:
~One 100nm solo cross country flight with landings at 3 points
~Three takeoffs and landings at an airport with an operating control tower

Most folks still take more than 35 hours, I'm just young and was able to catch on fast.

 

[jpower]

You definitely do not want to go the the cheapest school. Remember, you will be learning skills that might someday save your life and the lives of your passengers. Want to do that on the cheap? Bad idea.

Bob Gardner

But don't eliminate it straight away. I drove over an hour each way for the "cheapest" school I could find (including all the gas and tolls) and had the best instructors and planes.

 

[Henning]

1.) The minimum flight time to get a PPL is 40 hours. I've read that people usually do about 15-20 hours with an instructor before they can fly solo. Is there a minimum for how many of those hours need to be with an instructor?

All your Pre solo hours have to be with an instructor, at least the ones you log.

 

[dannn2008]

Go to a flight school and negotiate a package price - so many hours of dual and so many solo for so many dollars - and a payment schedule (see below)...
Go to a Credit Union (skip the banks) and borrow the money...
FInd some extra work to help pay back the note...

I have been with a great credit union for several years now and I plan on inquiring about a loan from them. I don't think I will need a second job and I'd rather spend that time flying

What type of loan would that be?

Pay the flight school in 3 or 4 lump sum payments - say 25% up front, then when you are within five or ten hours of that another 25%, and so on...
This gives you some protection from the old vanishing flight school trick...
It locks in flight time at a discount price...
It allows you to move steadily towards your check ride without big holes in time because of no spare money...
It gives you motivation to keep going when you hit the slump and the "I'll never be able to do this" that all students hit - because you have borrowed the money up front...

I like that Idea incase something comes up or if I end up not liking something about the flight school. Is this how most people pay for flight school?

Good luck and fair skies.. It is a big commitment... You will join the less than one half of one percent of the population who are pilots.

 

[dannn2008]

Dan, I got my license in about 37 hours and in total paid around $6,000.00

I would suggest getting your medical after just a few lessons. You don't want to dump a ton of money into this only to find out you can't get a 3rd class for what ever reason (unlikely, though)

I actually thought that would be required early in the process anyways (like before I go solo). I will do that early just to get it out of the way. I'm not worried though; I'm young and in perfect health as far as I know (I'm very health conscious).

Part 141

For an Airplane Single-Engine Rating
Total Time: 35 hours minimum this consists of the following:
Dual: 20 hours minimum with a Flight Instructor including:
~3 hours cross country flight training
~3 hours of night flight which includes a 100nm cross country and 10 landings
~3 hours of flight training by reference to instruments
~3 hours of test prep flight training within 2 calendar months of your practical test
Solo: 5 hours of solo flight consisting of:
~One 100nm solo cross country flight with landings at 3 points
~Three takeoffs and landings at an airport with an operating control tower

Most folks still take more than 35 hours, I'm just young and was able to catch on fast.

What is your secret? I'm certainly not planning to get my PPL in that few hours and for that cheap but that would be awesome if I could.

 

[craigvince]

Without a doubt, the most important money you will spend is on a good instructor.

The trick is defining what that means to you. I'd suggest you take an "intro flight" with 4 or 5 different instructors in your area. These intro flight could cost anywhere from $49 to $99 each and usually involve about 20 minutes of flying and a lot of talking. This is your opportunity to "audition" instructors. Contrary to popular belief, CFIs work for you, not the flight school. You will only get your money's worth from someone you can actually learn from. Our flight school has 3 different instructors, all of whom are very different. Most flight students like one of them a lot and the other two not very much. It depends on how your personalities click.

Once you find an instructor you like, ask him/her how many hours it will take you to go from start to finish. If they tell you 40 hours, go find another instructor. 40 hours is VERY unrealistic. I've know 2 pilots to finish in that amount of time. Both of them are excellent pilots and had excellent, efficient instructors, did their homework after every lesson and were 100% committed to getting their pilot's license. Most students need 55-60 hours to finish.

The best way to save money is to take 3-4 lessons a week. If you only take 3-4 lessons a month, you will forget more than you will retain between lessons and spend more of your next lesson reviewing and relearning.

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[dannn2008]

I'd suggest looking well away from the lakefront. I suspect you'll have a lot of issues with lake effect weather, and onshore crosswinds. And the airspace appears to be a mess due to Hopkins.

I'm going to ask my friend for advice on picking a school once I get ahold of him (if I can track him down). We haven't spoken in a few years. We flew out of Burke a few times and it's really nice because you can see the city. It really sucks being so close to Hopkins though because it's all restricted airspace and we could never fly over my house, work, etc.

I'm also open to suggestions from other forum members. If anyone on here is familiar with flight schools in the Cleveland area (good or bad), please pitch in

As for the lake effect weather... I think I will need to know how to handle that stuff eventually so as long as the instructors prepare me, I'm not worried. I will ask about it if I visit the schools there.

 

[raider]

part 141 minimum is 35 hours

 

[dannn2008]

Without a doubt, the most important money you will spend is on a good instructor.

The trick is defining what that means to you. I'd suggest you take an "intro flight" with 4 or 5 different instructors in your area. These intro flight could cost anywhere from $49 to $99 each and usually involve about 20 minutes of flying and a lot of talking. This is your opportunity to "audition" instructors. Contrary to popular belief, CFIs work for you, not the flight school. You will only get your money's worth from someone you can actually learn from. Our flight school has 3 different instructors, all of whom are very different. Most flight students like one of them a lot and the other two not very much. It depends on how your personalities click.

Once you find an instructor you like, ask him/her how many hours it will take you to go from start to finish. If they tell you 40 hours, go find another instructor. 40 hours is VERY unrealistic. I've know 2 pilots to finish in that amount of time. Both of them are excellent pilots and had excellent, efficient instructors, did their homework after every lesson and were 100% committed to getting their pilot's license. Most students need 55-60 hours to finish.

The best way to save money is to take 3-4 lessons a week. If you only take 3-4 lessons a month, you will forget more than you will retain between lessons and spend more of your next lesson reviewing and relearning.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Are most flight instructors willing to schedule lessons in the evenings (I assume most lessons are on the weekends)? I like the idea of taking several lessons per week but I work 7AM-4PM Mon-Fri so the earliest I could schedule a lesson during the week would be after 5:30PM (slightly earlier if the airport is near my office).

 

[dannn2008]

part 141 minimum is 35 hours

What exactly is part 141? Is it different than the PPL?

 

[SCCutler]

What exactly is part 141? Is it different that the PPL?

You can get your private pilot certificate (ASEL - Airplane - Single Engine Land) in either a traditional "Part 61" program (minimum of 40 hours), or in a "Part 141" program (minimum 35 hours).

141 programs are required to have much more structure, include stage checks, tighter control on training curriculum, that sort of thing. Idea is, a better-designed and implemented program allows for effective training in fewer hours.

Not sure it really makes a big difference; I started out in a 141 program, then ended up getting my certificate Part 61, because the school sort of overlooked telling me that, in order to do the whole gig 141, I had to have secured my Medical BEFORE starting.

Mattered not a bit, I did all the same training, and took my checkride when I was ready, which was (as it turns out) around 43 hours.

I'll let some of the instructors on here chime in, but I'd be more concerned about the chosen instructor's competence and skill, rather than the books from which the teaching is drawn.

 

[bbchien]

Part 141: no customization allowed.
Part 61: More demanding on the instructor. ALL structure has to come from him.

 

[dannn2008]

Ok, next set of questions


5.) Someone mentioned the sport pilot certificate. I briefly looked into it and it seemed like there were too many restrictions so I figured I would just go for the PPL. Would there be any advantage of getting the sport pilot first? What would be needed to get a PPL if you already have a sport pilot cert?

6.) From what I hear/read, a private pilot cannot take any compensation for flying. Are there any jobs (part or full time) that could come out of this? What would be needed? Is there anything below a commercial pilot license that could be obtained to fly for compensation? I have a good career now, but I'm a little bored with it so I figured I would ask.

7.) How are flight hours logged? Should I get a log book now and where would I get one?

8.) What about helicopters? I read that they are much harder to fly and much more expensive to fly/rent (is that correct?) so I figured I would start with planes for now. What is needed to fly a small helicopter? Would the requirements be different if I get the PPL first and then decide I want to fly helicopters?

Thanks again for all the great information!

 

[denverpilot]

5) It's a personal question. If you have access to appropriate aircraft, it's fine. A friend did it and then converted to Private. A local flight club here is big on LSA aircraft and he went through them. If your goal is Commercial aviation, skip it. If your goal is to go fly around and enjoy recreational flying, it's an option. There's not that much difference in total work to complete the Private rating, so if you're planning on continuing, let the instructor know up-front. You can use the smaller cheaper aircraft toward your Private rating if the Instructor is appropriately rated. Like many other posts have said, it's not about the airplane as much as it is about quality instruction.

6) Generally you'll need a Commercial Certificate for all but a few very limited Commercial operations that remain close to the departure airport. To venture further, you'll need an Instrument Rating along with the Commercial. As far as job prospects go, don't quit your day job, IMHO. Aviation at the lower tiers is paid barely above the official U.S. poverty line. You'll need a plan to live on almost nothing to get through it if you want to switch careers. Most times you'll be competing against kids who are living in parent's basements and once they grab a low-end airline job away from home, a crash pad. Airlines hub in big cities where it's expensive to live, and junior folks get to sit Reserve where they have to be close-by. Senior folks bid away from hubs typically or live way out in the suburbs and don't bid Reserve unless there's a specific tactical reason to do so in their personal schedules. It's all about seniority. If you have a family, they'd better be awfully understanding and be able to put up with all of you being broke and you being gone for long periods of time.

7) Yes, logbooks are still King with some moves toward digital logbooks, but generally you'll still need paper if you plan on any Commercial applications. If you start taking lessons, your instructor will guide you on when to get a logbook and will be doing most of the writing in it at first. Don't worry about it.

8) Plan 2.5 times the cost, minimum. The job market is tighter and the military trains a lot of helicopter pilots, but there's always a few folks who make it as civilians. It's outrageously expensive since you'll likely need to transition up to turbine powered aircraft to garner a Commercial job and many civilians do that on their own dime, while military folks start there on Uncle Sam's dime. (Same with many military fixed-wing, but there's a lot more openings and turbine transitions are usually, but not always, paid by the employer in fixed-wing aviation.)

 

[AuntPeggy]

5) You can go for LSA, but probably not worth it. But be absolutely certain that your instructor is a CFI for Private Pilot, not just for LSA. If not, then none of your hours go for any other rating or certificate and must be repeated to go further up the rungs. LSA aircraft rental is sometimes cheaper than other trainers.

On the other hand, you can try for your Recreational certificate with most of the restrictions and privileges of a solo student after you solo. The major advantage to doing that is you can carry one passenger, but only for short hops.

 

[AuntPeggy]

6) Forget about getting compensation for flying for quite awhile. You must get your Private Pilot, Instrument rating, and Commercial certificate before you try to make a cent. Even then, there are a lot of restrictions that get in the way of making money. For example, you cannot offer to fly for money and you cannot advertise. There are also restrictions concerning the aircraft. So, after getting all the above certificates and ratings, you must find a job working for an approved company. OK, that is not 100% true, but close enough for a rule of thumb.

 

[MAKG1]

5) It's a personal question. If you have access to appropriate aircraft, it's fine. A friend did it and then converted to Private. A local flight club here is big on LSA aircraft and he went through them. If your goal is Commercial aviation, skip it. If your goal is to go fly around and enjoy recreational flying, it's an option. There's not that much difference in total work to complete the Private rating, so if you're planning on continuing, let the instructor know up-front. You can use the smaller cheaper aircraft toward your Private rating if the Instructor is appropriately rated. Like many other posts have said, it's not about the airplane as much as it is about quality instruction.

Given the airspace where he is, he'll need a Class B/C/D endorsement, so much of the value of sport pilot goes away. It's completely gone if you ever want to carry more than one passenger. And night flying is fun.

You won't deal with lake effect as a private pilot. That's an instrument rating. All you'll do when lake effect weather is present is not fly. And it will suck.

 

[dannn2008]

5) It's a personal question. If you have access to appropriate aircraft, it's fine. A friend did it and then converted to Private. A local flight club here is big on LSA aircraft and he went through them. If your goal is Commercial aviation, skip it. If your goal is to go fly around and enjoy recreational flying, it's an option. There's not that much difference in total work to complete the Private rating, so if you're planning on continuing, let the instructor know up-front. You can use the smaller cheaper aircraft toward your Private rating if the Instructor is appropriately rated. Like many other posts have said, it's not about the airplane as much as it is about quality instruction.

Do FBO's (or anyone else) typically rent LSA planes? I think I am just going to focus on recreational aviation for now. Once I start flying, I should have a better idea of if I want to pursue a career in aviation. My goal is still the PPL, not the sport pilot but I think i'll probably have to ask the flight school about this (if it would be worth it to get a sport pilot prior to PPL).

6) Generally you'll need a Commercial Certificate for all but a few very limited Commercial operations that remain close to the departure airport. To venture further, you'll need an Instrument Rating along with the Commercial. As far as job prospects go, don't quit your day job, IMHO. Aviation at the lower tiers is paid barely above the official U.S. poverty line. You'll need a plan to live on almost nothing to get through it if you want to switch careers. Most times you'll be competing against kids who are living in parent's basements and once they grab a low-end airline job away from home, a crash pad. Airlines hub in big cities where it's expensive to live, and junior folks get to sit Reserve where they have to be close-by. Senior folks bid away from hubs typically or live way out in the suburbs and don't bid Reserve unless there's a specific tactical reason to do so in their personal schedules. It's all about seniority. If you have a family, they'd better be awfully understanding and be able to put up with all of you being broke and you being gone for long periods of time.

7) Yes, logbooks are still King with some moves toward digital logbooks, but generally you'll still need paper if you plan on any Commercial applications. If you start taking lessons, your instructor will guide you on when to get a logbook and will be doing most of the writing in it at first. Don't worry about it.

8) Plan 2.5 times the cost, minimum. The job market is tighter and the military trains a lot of helicopter pilots, but there's always a few folks who make it as civilians. It's outrageously expensive since you'll likely need to transition up to turbine powered aircraft to garner a Commercial job and many civilians do that on their own dime, while military folks start there on Uncle Sam's dime. (Same with many military fixed-wing, but there's a lot more openings and turbine transitions are usually, but not always, paid by the employer in fixed-wing aviation.)

Yeah i'm just sticking with recreational flying for now. I'll see how that goes first but figured I would ask since I'm bored with my current career.

 

[dannn2008]

Given the airspace where he is, he'll need a Class B/C/D endorsement, so much of the value of sport pilot goes away. It's completely gone if you ever want to carry more than one passenger. And night flying is fun.

What exactly are class B, C, and D endorsements? Or better yet, does anyone know of a list of all the endorsements, descriptions, and requirements? You make a good point there. I'll check with the flight school to get all the specifics on the airspace here.

I know for sure that I want to get the PPL and not the sport pilot for those reasons exactly, night flying and more than one passenger. I was just asking if there would be a reason to pursue the sport pilot prior to the PPL (ex, cheaper aircraft).

You won't deal with lake effect as a private pilot. That's an instrument rating. All you'll do when lake effect weather is present is not fly. And it will suck.

 

[ja_user]

What exactly are class B, C, and D endorsements? Or better yet, does anyone know of a list of all the endorsements, descriptions, and requirements? You make a good point there. I'll check with the flight school to get all the specifics on the airspace here.

I know for sure that I want to get the PPL and not the sport pilot for those reasons exactly, night flying and more than one passenger. I was just asking if there would be a reason to pursue the sport pilot prior to the PPL (ex, cheaper aircraft).

If LSA aircraft were cheaper (and they are often not), you can still work on and complete your PPL in them...

 

[dannn2008]

How does insurance work in the world of private aviation (I assume it's required)? Does the pilot need to carry any or just the aircraft owner?

 

[ja_user]

How does insurance work in the world of private aviation (I assume it's required)? Does the pilot need to carry any or just the aircraft owner?

It isn't required... (Of course your bank/loaner can require whatever they want)

It is only required on your car, because thousands of accidents happen everyday...

It isn't required on your house either, if you own it outright.. or your boat, etc, etc..

 

[SCCutler]

What exactly are class B, C, and D endorsements? Or better yet, does anyone know of a list of all the endorsements, descriptions, and requirements? You make a good point there. I'll check with the flight school to get all the specifics on the airspace here.

I know for sure that I want to get the PPL and not the sport pilot for those reasons exactly, night flying and more than one passenger. I was just asking if there would be a reason to pursue the sport pilot prior to the PPL (ex, cheaper aircraft).

You already smoked out that the endorsements referenced are those given by your instructor, certifying that you are trained and competent to operate into the referenced airspace, which involving increasing degrees of complexity and controller interaction.

How does insurance work in the world of private aviation (I assume it's required)? Does the pilot need to carry any or just the aircraft owner?

You'd be amazed how many fly without it! That said, as a renter, you should secure renter's insurance, which protects you in case you do damage to the aircraft or others. The aircraft owner's insurance does NOT cover the renter in most cases.

 

[gprellwitz]

Do FBO's (or anyone else) typically rent LSA planes? I think I am just going to focus on recreational aviation for now. Once I start flying, I should have a better idea of if I want to pursue a career in aviation. My goal is still the PPL, not the sport pilot but I think i'll probably have to ask the flight school about this (if it would be worth it to get a sport pilot prior to PPL).



Yeah i'm just sticking with recreational flying for now. I'll see how that goes first but figured I would ask since I'm bored with my current career.

Yes, there are definitely places to rent LSAs, which are what you can fly with a SP license. The FBO I rent from has a Champ, which is fly able by a SP but requires a tailwheel endorsement.

 

[dannn2008]

It isn't required... (Of course your bank/loaner can require whatever they want)

I won't be owning any aircraft anytime soon so I don't have to worry about a bank/loaner.

It is only required on your car, because thousands of accidents happen everyday...

I understand that it is much less likely but in the event of an accident, the damages would be well out of my budget. I believe a C172 is somewhere around $300k new.

It isn't required on your house either, if you own it outright.. or your boat, etc, etc..

That makes sense though because it is also very unlikely to be in a boating collision/accident and a house isn't going to cause any damage to someone else's property.

 

[ja_user]

I won't be owning any aircraft anytime soon so I don't have to worry about a bank/loaner.



I understand that it is much less likely but in the event of an accident, the damages would be well out of my budget. I believe a C172 is somewhere around $300k new.



That makes sense though because it is also very unlikely to be in a boating collision/accident and a house isn't going to cause any damage to someone else's property.

So really, you already understand it? You are just asking if most people carry it?

I carry non-owned insurance, it is a financial/risk decision only... I have no idea what other renters do...

 

[dannn2008]

You already smoked out that the endorsements referenced are those given by your instructor, certifying that you are trained and competent to operate into the referenced airspace, which involving increasing degrees of complexity and controller interaction.

I know that they are granted by the instructor but what do they mean? There has to be some specific skills/guidelines that the instructor looks for before giving each endorsement. "Increasing degrees of complexity and controller interaction," is it just an increasing level of competence or are there specific skills for each one?

You'd be amazed how many fly without it! That said, as a renter, you should secure renter's insurance, which protects you in case you do damage to the aircraft or others. The aircraft owner's insurance does NOT cover the renter in most cases.

Is the price of renters insurance based on experience like auto-insurance is? How much does renters insurance typically run (for a new pilot)? How would renters insurance work if I were to only fly once in a while?

 

[ja_user]

Is the price of renters insurance based on experience like auto-insurance is? How much does renters insurance typically run (for a new pilot)? How would renters insurance work if I were to only fly once in a while?

No generally not...

Renters insurance will primarily be made up of two peices,

1. Liability (1M with some per person, per accident limitations are standard)
2. Aircraft Damage (Whatever you choose to carry)

From what I can tell, for non-owned basic aircraft (< 8 seats, piston airplanes) #1 is the same for everyone.

#2 depends on how much you carry, but they don't care how much you fly, only how much coverage you want..

When you start insuring the aircraft itself (owned policies), or life insurances that covers GA.. Then they start to care how good you are, as a pilot. hrs/year, ratings, etc starts to matter...
Between 50-300 hours is the sweet spot, with either IFR or COmmercial depending on the company..


As far as cost, check with AOPA, although their prices can be beat by a broker. < $200/hr for liability, under $300 will cover some basic aircraft damage...