Northwest Airlines Pilots demise....

The Dreamliner flew at last. One of the many reasons it was late was that parts made in S.C.were not up to the quality needed , many were repaired or remade in Seattle by the Union shops. Correlation? Now they are building an assembly line . Only time will tell if they are up to the task. It is easy for a large Corp to get around American unions, They go offshore to find workers who are willing to work 6-7 days a week, 10-12 hours a day. And they line up for the privilige. It was like that in the USA before the unions. If you work a 40 hour week it is because of unions. Disclaimer; I have not and do not belong to a union. Dave
 
The NW pilots are in a pickle, They almost have to stand by their "story " BS or not. I think the revocation is unnessecary. Suspended, require retraining. Fine. Maybe.. But these guys are probably not going to find good flying jobs no matter what The FAA does. If they really want to fly they can go offshore , someone will be glad for a pilot(think Air America). Like I said; Not GOOD flying jobs. I still think they fell asleep. Dave
 
wanttaja said:
I received a forwarded email purportedly from a friend of one of the pilots. I can't judge the contents, as I've never flown for the airlines ........................
Ron Wanttaja
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Ron ,
New to POA and I was gonna stay out of this thread till I read this . Most all of what you posted has been corroborated by investigators and other sources . Apparently the crew wasnt the only ones to drop the ball also and even Babbit is looking into why ATC didnt start looking for these guys sooner . Missing TOD is rare , but going NORDO with ATC happens all the time . Also , the lack of process by the FAA in this case is disturbing .
ALICE
 
Alice R said:
Most all of what you posted has been corroborated by investigators and other sources . Apparently the crew wasnt the only ones to drop the ball also and even Babbit is looking into why ATC didnt start looking for these guys sooner .
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Got any references for that? While it sounds plausible, there has been no references for it.

BTW, welcome to the board. Don't be a stranger. :smile:
 
Alice R said:
Ron ,
New to POA and I was gonna stay out of this thread till I read this . Most all of what you posted has been corroborated by investigators and other sources . Apparently the crew wasnt the only ones to drop the ball also and even Babbit is looking into why ATC didnt start looking for these guys sooner . Missing TOD is rare , but going NORDO with ATC happens all the time . Also , the lack of process by the FAA in this case is disturbing .
ALICE
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Welcome to POA.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Got any references for that? While it sounds plausible, there has been no references for it.

BTW, welcome to the board. Don't be a stranger. :smile:
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Try
http://www.salon.com/tech/col/smith/2009/12/10/askthepilot344/index.html

And
http://jamesfallows.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/12/if_youve_been_wondering_about.php

I want to add that MSP ARTCC is notorious for being slow . I flew JFK-SEA 3 times last month after this happened and for kicks I timed the radio transmissions . We went as long as 18 minutes between calls and one stretch with 3 calls ( Not to my flight ) in 47 minutes . This was not on the back side of the clock but early evening local . Even the controllers complain that it is tough to stay sharp . ARTCC has taken steps to remedy this .
Alice
 
Alice R said:
Try
http://www.salon.com/tech/col/smith/2009/12/10/askthepilot344/index.html

And
http://jamesfallows.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/12/if_youve_been_wondering_about.php

I want to add that MSP ARTCC is notorious for being slow . I flew JFK-SEA 3 times last month after this happened and for kicks I timed the radio transmissions . We went as long as 18 minutes between calls and one stretch with 3 calls ( Not to my flight ) in 47 minutes . This was not on the back side of the clock but early evening local . Even the controllers complain that it is tough to stay sharp . ARTCC has taken steps to remedy this .
Alice
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Well there are those around here that would say those references aren't much more than hearsay and conjecture. I personally find them plausible. I also say the pilots screwed up, but until we know WHY they screwed up, I am not so sure justice was served.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
I also say the pilots screwed up, but until we know WHY they screwed up, I am not so sure justice was served.
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I think Randy Babbitt's perspective is that based on the pilots' sworn statements as to what happened, their screw-up is inexcusable. While many may speculate on what "really" happened beyond what the pilots swore did happen, it's nothing but conjecture, and the administrative justice system is based on the evidence presented, which in this case is pretty much limited to the pilots' statements and the externally verifiable facts, which are consistent with the pilots' story. Given that evidence, and ignoring the speculation as he must, I don't see how the Administrator could do anything but what he did.

That said, I really wish there were a way to recover the CVR data so we could know for sure what went on, because at this point, I'd be disinclined to give any credibility to anything different the pilots might now say. Given their two different stories so far (heated argument and laptops), a third story would only serve to erode whatever credibility they now have.
 
Not sure but I think there is lots of competition from pilots with clean records.
 
My question is why they would even want to go back. If it was me I would take it as a clue that my interests lie elsewhere.
 
As far as them starting over, what do they have to do. Is it just re-taking the tests, or do they have to build up the 1,500 hrs again to get to ATP status? Do they have to get all of the dual instruction hours over again?
 
mcjon77 said:
As far as them starting over, what do they have to do. Is it just re-taking the tests, or do they have to build up the 1,500 hrs again to get to ATP status? Do they have to get all of the dual instruction hours over again?
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Just retake the exams
 
Henning said:
Just retake the exams
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However, they will have to take each written and practical test for every rating starting with PP-ASEL, and that means meeting the prerequisites, including lower level certificates and any required endorsements and training within the 60 days preceding the test. They can't just walk in off the street and take the ATP-AMEL practical test.
 
ScottM said:
Even if these guys reapply in 10 months for their certificates and do all the training what are the real chances that they will find a job flying for the majors?
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Once you've been fired for violating company rules at one major, it's hard to get hired at another.
 
Ron Levy said:
However, they will have to take each written and practical test for every rating starting with PP-ASEL, and that means meeting the prerequisites, including lower level certificates and any required endorsements and training within the 60 days preceding the test. They can't just walk in off the street and take the ATP-AMEL practical test.
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Ron, didn't you once recount a story of a NW CPT who re-earned every ticket from PP to ATP after a alcohol abuse revocation?
 
So, once they do all of that, it sounds like they'd be better off writing a book about their experiences.
 
astanley said:
Ron, didn't you once recount a story of a NW CPT who re-earned every ticket from PP to ATP after a alcohol abuse revocation?
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Yes. See http://www.avweb.com/news/profiles/182955-1.html. Note that Captain Prouse's situation was, per the ALPA contract, handled as a medical issue, not a disciplinary one. OTOH, these two were fired for violating a company rule against use of personal laptops on the flight deck, an entirely different situation, and an action independent of the FAA's action to revoke their certificates. Whether NWA will hire them back is unknown, but in my estimation, highly unlikely.
 
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