Non-aviation: advice for selling first house

Update:
Gotta say, I have not been thrilled with the 4 agents I've talked to so far in 2024. Gonna have to keep looking or try to sell it myself. But man... some of these folks don't have much to offer besides a nice suit and smile.
 
Update:
Gotta say, I have not been thrilled with the 4 agents I've talked to so far in 2024. Gonna have to keep looking or try to sell it myself. But man... some of these folks don't have much to offer besides a nice suit and smile.
Has been my experience with most real estate agents. Usually left asking....WTF did I just pay for?
 
About 25 years ago after selling one house and buying one I looked at the total paid and asked WTF did I just pay for. Especially as a buyer. I picked the houses off realtor.com or redfin.com and had whoever show it and fill out a pre-printed offer. It seemed like a racket.

So I took a course, passed the tests, and got my sales license. I learned what happens behind the scenes and concluded, yes, in many ways it is a racket. For the actual realtor, you just want someone you get a good vibe from and who has high energy. The "system" is (in most states) defined by a realty board of political appointees (who must be brokers--self-dealing anyone?) designed to protect themselves.

My recent transactions I used redfin. Cheap, all the sales and processing staff are salaried (so no commission pressure) and I've had good experiences.

It's pretty hard to sell or buy outside the system, but if you do, just make sure you have a great closing agent.
 
About 25 years ago after selling one house and buying one I looked at the total paid and asked WTF did I just pay for. Especially as a buyer. I picked the houses off realtor.com or redfin.com and had whoever show it and fill out a pre-printed offer. It seemed like a racket.

So I took a course, passed the tests, and got my sales license. I learned what happens behind the scenes and concluded, yes, in many ways it is a racket. For the actual realtor, you just want someone you get a good vibe from and who has high energy. The "system" is (in most states) defined by a realty board of political appointees (who must be brokers--self-dealing anyone?) designed to protect themselves.

My recent transactions I used redfin. Cheap, all the sales and processing staff are salaried (so no commission pressure) and I've had good experiences.

It's pretty hard to sell or buy outside the system, but if you do, just make sure you have a great closing agent.
"Racket" feels like the right word. It seems to be like a sort of legalized cartel.

Their "market knowledge" (comp. market analyses) and selling plan so far has turned out to be a bit of a joke. As if the rest of the population is unable to load up Zillow, look at comp pricing, then turn on the SOLD filter and see what the actual recent sale prices have been. Trying to pitch me on "you need a realtor or you'll be leaving money on the table" is also a bit laughable. Four realtors giving me 4 prices that range about $115k (MAX px - MIN px). They don't have a clue what the house could/would sell for, at least no more than the rest of us.

Maybe in some unique, niche markets they're able to add a lot of value. But in a pretty big area like this it's been hard to see what they bring to the table. Aside from being gatekeepers that literally will actively prevent your house from being shown to potential buyers if you FSBO it (to protect their cartel), I'm not sure what they bring to the table.

Hopefully the next batch gives me more confidence. We'll see.
 
Looks like I'll be using a realtor again for my rental. Tenants that have been here 5 years just let me know they're looking for a bigger place since there kids are getting bigger.
 
Just remember that even your realtor has their OWN interests at heart. They may technically be working for you but may act more in their own self interest.

Consider having a very frank conversation on this subject with them. Make them understand that they need to put your interests ahead of their own.

Failing to do this can end up costing you thousands of dollars.
 
"… As if the rest of the population is unable to load up Zillow, look at comp pricing, then turn on the SOLD filter and see what the actual recent sale prices have been...
Texas is a non-disclosure state, so the only record of selling prince is limited to the buyer, seller, and broker. Very, very few manually update Zillow with the actual selling price, which is why NAR and MLS hold the keys to the kingdom for comparative market analyses.
 
Texas is a non-disclosure state, so the only record of selling prince is limited to the buyer, seller, and broker. Very, very few manually update Zillow with the actual selling price, which is why NAR and MLS hold the keys to the kingdom for comparative market analyses.
In OK, you can generally look up the property history with the county assessor online. You can see last sale price and taxes paid, as well as current owner and any GIS map info. Varies from county to county, but it's publicly available.
 
Update:
Gotta say, I have not been thrilled with the 4 agents I've talked to so far in 2024. Gonna have to keep looking or try to sell it myself. But man... some of these folks don't have much to offer besides a nice suit and smile.

Has been my experience with most real estate agents. Usually left asking....WTF did I just pay for?

No truer words spoken... and this has been my experience over the years. I was an agent for a few years and I came to the conclusion that the majority of real estate sales is a catchall for spouses looking to get out of the house or those that have failed at other jobs... sorry, for the hard statement but true.

For the past couple of years all you need was a license and a pulse.
 
In OK, you can generally look up the property history with the county assessor online. You can see last sale price and taxes paid, as well as current owner and any GIS map info. Varies from county to county, but it's publicly available.

Yeah, I used to own in home in Edmond. As a non-disclosure state, the selling price is not a matter of public record and not required to be provided to any third party, to include the tax assessor or any government entity.
 
I sold my house in the Chicago suburbs last year and got referred to my broker by asking a broker friend in another state to look up the local ones in their company database and let me know which ones were good. I was very happy with the one I got. Happy to recommend him if you are still looking.
 
Yeah, I used to own in home in Edmond. As a non-disclosure state, the selling price is not a matter of public record and not required to be provided to any third party, to include the tax assessor or any government entity.
Oklahoma does have a required Documentary Tax Stamp fee . . . which is roughly $0.75 per $500 of value on property transfers. So the price paid can be calculated pretty closely using the stamp fee. So while you are not being required to disclose sales price, it can be derived by the required fees.
 
Oklahoma does have a required Documentary Tax Stamp fee . . . which is roughly $0.75 per $500 of value on property transfers. So the price paid can be calculated pretty closely using the stamp fee. So while you are not being required to disclose sales price, it can be derived by the required fees.

Yeah, we got nothing like that, thankfully. The CAD is usually on the low side of the selling price and, if not, one can protest the CAD’s market value with the contract price and get the lower of the two values assigned.

No way for JQ Public to guesstimate.
 
@TCABM
Bummer you can't see the sold prices in TX... There must be another way to get general market info (e.g., are houses on average selling above asking/below, etc). It seems like too many people participate in the market for it to be an entirely closed-off secret. At a minimum you can see listing prices, so as a seller that's pretty indicative of where to start.

... the majority of real estate sales is a catchall for spouses looking to get out of the house or those that have failed at other jobs...
I don't have the amount of experience you do on the topic yet, but I feel myself moving towards the same conclusion on quality. If you include the realtor I had while buying, 1/2 of the total realtors I've met with seemed like they'd be slinging Avon/Mary-Kay from their living room if it wasn't for this gig. I just get the feeling there's not a whole lot going on upstairs. Certainly not enough to justify a big check. The only qualifications to get in the racket so far seem to be: suit + smile + SUV. EDIT: Plus a Karen-haircut. There seems to be a law that you need to have that as a realtor.

I sold my house in the Chicago suburbs last year and got referred to my broker by asking a broker friend in another state to look up the local ones in their company database and let me know which ones were good. I was very happy with the one I got. Happy to recommend him if you are still looking.
I appreciate that. I'm in the west suburbs, right by duPage airport.
I've got another batch of folks to talk to. If those don't work out then I'll have to rethink my strategy. I may be in touch to see about that recommendation!
 
Others call it a conflict of interest."
It's only an issue for the buyer. The kickback to the buyer's agent is proportional to the sales price, so one might argue he's incentivized not to advocate for his client for a lower price in favor of a quicker, higher-priced sale.
 
It's only an issue for the buyer. The kickback to the buyer's agent is proportional to the sales price, so one might argue he's incentivized not to advocate for his client for a lower price in favor of a quicker, higher-priced sale.
It’s an issue for the seller too. If the house sits, they make no commission. Losing a few hundred on the commission beats no commission, while the seller eats thousands in losses.
 
It’s an issue for the seller too. If the house sits, they make no commission. Losing a few hundred on the commission beats no commission, while the seller eats thousands in losses.
Not necessarily, the sellers agent can generate a number of leads from listings and if they are good at their job they can turn those into deals. Sellers agents usually do nothing to list a property, they get a docusign signed by the seller then usually forward it to an office manager to upload and get photos ordered (some offices may cover this expense as brokers also like to get their name out there). Most people do not purchase the property that they initially enquiried about so it’s important for agents to follow-up and find what they are looking for (and also to ask for referrals).

The basic training to new agents is to set up an MLS search which is basically for lazy agents, buyers can and definitely do search online, agents need to use their knowledge bank to suggest some items they think that the buyer might be interested in, instead of sending the buyer 100+ listings to choose from.

We as the public cannot determine the difference between a new and experienced agent usually, because frankly there are too many new agents. The barrier to entry to be an agent is very very low.
 
@ArrowFlyer86
If you do FSBO, perhaps have open houses every weekend to get some traffic through, have great photos, hide your valuables, get a sign in sheet and make an email list and you can email the group in BCC with future updates on the listing.

Agents search FSBO’s online as it’s easy so they will be calling you to say they have a buyer or they can do this and that blah, just tell them to bring their buyer thru the open house and that you will offer a 2.5% buyer agent commission if they are successful, do not sign any forms. The buyer signs an exclusive buyer agency agreement with their agent to protect the agents commission. In the offer it will say 2.5%, and of course the agent will probably try to sneak in a document fee of $300-700, you can absolutely say no to this. They will play games, you can walk, the agent won’t lose a deal for $300-700 and it doesn’t come from the agents pocket under any circumstance.

I find most agents only bargain against the weaker person, they will size up the buyer and seller, and attack the one they think is weaker by blaming interest rates, slow market, bad inspection report etc. It’s all not relevant, you want the agent to beat down the other person, not you. You can tell them to hit the road if they cannot pretend to be on your side at least. Or if you are feeling generous and want to give a donation then fall in.

To proceed, use a template purchase agreement. You can get one online, you can ask the agents you interviewed to email you a blank one, whatever. Read it, if anything doesn’t make sense then highlight it and come back to it. Remove any extra fees or personalized sections (to the broker). Really it isn’t difficult but for people who cannot sit down and read a document, then you can hire a lawyer and pay them $500-1000+. But I read contracts regularly so I wouldn’t use a lawyer, it’s all basic stuff. For Illinois, you have to agree on the taxes you’ll reimburse to the buyer since taxes are paid in arrears. Since we don’t know what the bill will be, usually the contract calls for an “agreed” refund of 110-130% of the previous years tax bill. You can try to save a few bucks by just saying 100% of last year or just inputting last years tax amount. The assumption is that property taxes always increase.

Once you have a signed agreement, you send it to a title agency. A lot of deals fall through due to the buyer not qualifying, appraisal, whatever. So keep your hot leads active. Try to play it as long as you can, once you lose the hot leads and your signed buyer falls thru, then you have to start over. Yet this time with it being “previously” listed according to Zillow, the house is now stigmatized in the eyes of most buyers. They (the title agency) actually does all of the work, pay off mortgages, taxes, any liens, collecting money from buyers mortgage and distributing to you. Sending you a tax form etc. Now everyone is talking about agents charging a lot, yes. But you can find an agent who charges 1% and offers a 2.5% buyer agent commission for a total cost of 3.5%, easily and in most markets, you can bargain for a bigger discount too! I bet the agents you met want 5-6%. Some are bold and will ask for more. Some sellers will just pay it so why not ask for it? It’s up to you to negotiate. Now look at the title closing statement, you’ll see a bunch of new fees, mortgage broker fee, etc. I’ve seen people pay 8-10% loan initiation fee, some people are just stupid. It all adds up to quite a bit. You can skip the title company, actually it’s very easy to get a deed notarized and file it with the county. But if the buyer is getting a mortgage they will want title insurance. So then it would be difficult to skip the title agency.
 
I appreciate that. I'm in the west suburbs, right by duPage airport.
I've got another batch of folks to talk to. If those don't work out then I'll have to rethink my strategy. I may be in touch to see about that recommendation!
Yeah, my house was in Carol Stream. This guy can definitely help you.
 
@ArrowFlyer86
If you do FSBO, perhaps have open houses every weekend to get some traffic through, have great photos, hide your valuables, get a sign in sheet and make an email list and you can email the group in BCC with future updates on the listing.

Agents search FSBO’s online as it’s easy so they will be calling you to say they have a buyer or they can do this and that blah, just tell them to bring their buyer thru the open house and that you will offer a 2.5% buyer agent commission if they are successful, do not sign any forms. The buyer signs an exclusive buyer agency agreement with their agent to protect the agents commission. In the offer it will say 2.5%, and of course the agent will probably try to sneak in a document fee of $300-700, you can absolutely say no to this. They will play games, you can walk, the agent won’t lose a deal for $300-700 and it doesn’t come from the agents pocket under any circumstance.

I find most agents only bargain against the weaker person, they will size up the buyer and seller, and attack the one they think is weaker by blaming interest rates, slow market, bad inspection report etc. It’s all not relevant, you want the agent to beat down the other person, not you. You can tell them to hit the road if they cannot pretend to be on your side at least. Or if you are feeling generous and want to give a donation then fall in.

To proceed, use a template purchase agreement. You can get one online, you can ask the agents you interviewed to email you a blank one, whatever. Read it, if anything doesn’t make sense then highlight it and come back to it. Remove any extra fees or personalized sections (to the broker). Really it isn’t difficult but for people who cannot sit down and read a document, then you can hire a lawyer and pay them $500-1000+. But I read contracts regularly so I wouldn’t use a lawyer, it’s all basic stuff. For Illinois, you have to agree on the taxes you’ll reimburse to the buyer since taxes are paid in arrears. Since we don’t know what the bill will be, usually the contract calls for an “agreed” refund of 110-130% of the previous years tax bill. You can try to save a few bucks by just saying 100% of last year or just inputting last years tax amount. The assumption is that property taxes always increase.

Once you have a signed agreement, you send it to a title agency. A lot of deals fall through due to the buyer not qualifying, appraisal, whatever. So keep your hot leads active. Try to play it as long as you can, once you lose the hot leads and your signed buyer falls thru, then you have to start over. Yet this time with it being “previously” listed according to Zillow, the house is now stigmatized in the eyes of most buyers. They (the title agency) actually does all of the work, pay off mortgages, taxes, any liens, collecting money from buyers mortgage and distributing to you. Sending you a tax form etc. Now everyone is talking about agents charging a lot, yes. But you can find an agent who charges 1% and offers a 2.5% buyer agent commission for a total cost of 3.5%, easily and in most markets, you can bargain for a bigger discount too! I bet the agents you met want 5-6%. Some are bold and will ask for more. Some sellers will just pay it so why not ask for it? It’s up to you to negotiate. Now look at the title closing statement, you’ll see a bunch of new fees, mortgage broker fee, etc. I’ve seen people pay 8-10% loan initiation fee, some people are just stupid. It all adds up to quite a bit. You can skip the title company, actually it’s very easy to get a deed notarized and file it with the county. But if the buyer is getting a mortgage they will want title insurance. So then it would be difficult to skip the title agency.

Sage advice... if you're going to go the "FizBow" route... make sure you know all the disclosure laws as well.

 
A good realtor will help you with your other questions...
i sold my house in 2021 and used a lawyer. cost me $1400 start to finish. a realator would have been $6500. when i bought my new house i can safely say that realators are uselesss and clueless and basically leeches.
 
i sold my house in 2021 and used a lawyer. cost me $1400 start to finish. a realator would have been $6500. when i bought my new house i can safely say that realators are uselesss and clueless and basically leeches.

not all of them. But I only have experience with a small sample size.
 
A realtor and lawyer serve completely different functions.
 
Back
Top