No SIDs/STARs

[Palmpilot]

An aside.

A few years ago, when I was still living in Colorado, I was planning to rent an airplane during a vacation in Florida. The last leg of my Florida flights was KBCT to KORL. Looking at the charts, the GOOFY.BAIRN STAR into the Orlando area looked reasonable (Unit74 - any problem you see with that 2700 msl altitude? I'm betting not too many turbojets to run you over ).

So I filed it.

I didn't get cleared for the STAR but, lo and behold, that was indeed the exact routing since it was (a) the route most commonly used (duh!) and the (b) most reasonable route to take. So even if not assigned it, SIDs and STARs can be a clue to common routings in an area.

In the past I have noticed, when flying to Palo Alto (PAO) from the northeast, a tendency to assign a routing that duplicates San Francisco's Risti Four Arrival without assigning it by name.

http://download.aopa.org/ustprocs/current/SW-2/risti_four_star.pdf

 

[petrolero]

...trusting the controller not to vector me into a mountain.

Do you fly with ipad/synthetic vision? That extra situational awareness can't hurt (other than the bank account)

It's also important to look at SIDs/STARs for your airports. Of course it's going to be difficult if a person is looking at the SID/STAR for the first time while it's being issued. However, if you do the appropriate planning and look over applicable STARs/SIDs it makes it easier because you've already briefed the departure or arrival and have a general idea what to do and what to plan for. CFIs that don't teach students how to fly SIDs or STARs just because the home drone doesn't issue them are doing a huge disservice to students once they fly to other parts of the country.

I agree but with the proliferation of DPs and STARs, it can take some work to figure out the right DP/STAR for a given B airport. I fly into and out of three different Class B areas: Denver, DFW, and Houston.

I had to go through each procedure individually days before the flight to see if it had suitable MEAs, didn't say 'turbojet only' or have speeds I couldn't do or whatever - and it had to take me in/out the most appropriate gate for the direction I was flying. That stuff takes time, but it's better than not filing a DP/STAR and getting one the day of the flight and having to delay in the airplane while briefing it.

It would be nice if FF could split out "turbojet only" procedures so I could ignore them. There are other ways they could parse procedures also. It would be cool if you could select or sort procedures based on aircraft performance capabilities.

 

[azure]

Do you fly with ipad/synthetic vision? That extra situational awareness can't hurt (other than the bank account)

I do have ForeFlight, but haven't tried their SV. How good is it without the Stratus?

But I'd be leery of relying on it to keep me clear of terrain at night - I'm not sure the iPad's internal GPS is that accurate anyway.

 

[peerlesscowboy]

So do you guys always file a SID if it's applicable? I'm thinking here of Boeing Field in Seattle, WA. If they're taking off on runways 13L&R you'll get the KENT SIX DEP, if they're taking off on runways 31L&R you'll get the NEEDLE EIGHT DEP. Both of 'em are pretty simple but you wouldn't know which one to file because you wouldn't know which runways will be in use. When I was in there a couple of years ago I just filed (/A) off Boeing Field direct to the Seattle VORTAC and then the airway heading east. When I departed they were taking off to the southeast so I was cleared via the KENT SIX Departure.

 

[MauleSkinner]

So do you guys always file a SID if it's applicable? I'm thinking here of Boeing Field in Seattle, WA. If they're taking off on runways 13L&R you'll get the KENT SIX DEP, if they're taking off on runways 31L&R you'll get the NEEDLE EIGHT DEP. Both of 'em are pretty simple but you wouldn't know which one to file because you wouldn't know which runways will be in use. When I was in there a couple of years ago I just filed (/A) off Boeing Field direct to the Seattle VORTAC and then the airway heading east. When I departed they were taking off to the southeast so I was cleared via the KENT SIX Departure.

I just file direct and take what they give me.

The exception being Las Vegas, where the won't issue you a clearance unless you file a transition fix...of course, theY always clear me to a different transition fix, so I figure they're just trying to keep up with the reputation of the Las Vegas cab drivers...

 

[petrolero]

I do have ForeFlight, but haven't tried their SV. How good is it without the Stratus?

But I'd be leery of relying on it to keep me clear of terrain at night - I'm not sure the iPad's internal GPS is that accurate anyway.

I don't think I'd use it without at least Stratus 1 or some other WAAS GPS source. I wouldn't use it in terrain at night but it would be good to know that ATC isn't vectoring me into a mountain. If it (referring to vectors in IMC near terrain) ever got close enough to make me uncomfortable I'd query ATC - but at least I'd have a more visual representation of where I was in relation to terrain.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I agree but with the proliferation of DPs and STARs, it can take some work to figure out the right DP/STAR for a given B airport. I fly into and out of three different Class B areas: Denver, DFW, and Houston.

Unfortunately, AFAIK there's no naming convention that tells us whether a SID or STAR is even in our direction of flight, let alone whether it's for turbo-only ops.

Filtering might be an interesting thing for one of the app providers to do. I can see a lot of initial time-consuming manual work up front.

 

[AnnaG]

Thanks all, for the awesome answers/comments/opinions/points of views/perspectives.
Love this board for that reason. I think I got my official answer (textual description), but got a whole lotta insight along the way. And will learn to love my SIDs/STARs.

 

[petrolero]

Unfortunately, AFAIK there's no naming convention that tells us whether a SID or STAR is even in our direction of flight, let alone whether it's for turbo-only ops.

Filtering might be an interesting thing for one of the app providers to do. I can see a lot of initial time-consuming manual work up front.

I can certainly help them sort out Denver, Dallas and Houston.