Night SVFR

luvflyin

luvflyin

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Luvflyin
I taxi out to do 3 night landings to get current. Then the ceiling goes down to 800 so I scrub it rather than request SVFR because even though the plane and me are instrument rated, I'm not current for IFR. A friend tells me I could have because you don't need to be IFR current for night SVFR, just rated. AIM says rated. FAR 91 says you have to meet the applicable requirements in FAR 61 for instrument flight. FAR 61 has so many sections, paragraphs, sub paragraphs, references and notwithstandings on the subject I'm not sure. ?????????
 
Your friend is wrong. 91.157 says that the PILOT must meet the requirements for instrument flight under part 61. This means he must have an instrument rating and be current. The AIM doesn't trump the regs.

In addition the plane must be equipped for IFR flight under 91.205(d). Note this doesn't mean certified for IFR so if your plane is certified for night (VFR) flight in general and equipped with the 91.205 stuff (AI, DG, etc...) you can fly night SVFR. You don't need the IFR equipment certifications either.
 
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Erm.... Correct me if I am wrong (my knowledge is NZ/AUS only, but I guess FAA has the same basic limitations): SVFR is 800/1500 and is day only. If you did your 3 landings in uncontrolled AD, at night you need at least 1500/8km, controlled 1500/5km. So legally, when VFR, you could not do it. If IFR you had to do proper instrument approach (3 of them)
 
SVFR is night or day.

To accept an SVFR clearance in the day you need not be instrument rated, just be able to be clear of clouds. I did one when I had my PPL actually, then the airport went hard IFR after I landed.

To accept an SVFR at night, you need to have the requirements FRon already stated.

And actually, that's a great question for a DPE to ask you on your checkride and one that a lot of people miss. Everyone gets that an instrument rating can be used for flying in IMC, on an IFR flight plan, etc, but hardly anyone says "SVFR at night".
 
sgenie said:
Erm.... Correct me if I am wrong (my knowledge is NZ/AUS only, but I guess FAA has the same basic limitations): SVFR is 800/1500 and is day only. If you did your 3 landings in uncontrolled AD, at night you need at least 1500/8km, controlled 1500/5km. So legally, when VFR, you could not do it. If IFR you had to do proper instrument approach (3 of them)
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See 91.157 for weather mins. Those are basic FAA FW mins. Some places such as military have seperate SVFR mins for helos.
 
sgenie said:
Erm.... Correct me if I am wrong (my knowledge is NZ/AUS only, but I guess FAA has the same basic limitations): SVFR is 800/1500 and is day only. If you did your 3 landings in uncontrolled AD, at night you need at least 1500/8km, controlled 1500/5km. So legally, when VFR, you could not do it. If IFR you had to do proper instrument approach (3 of them)
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I needed to do three landings to a full stop at night so I would be current to have passengers at night. The requirement in the US is three landings to a full stop between an hour after sunset and an hour before sunrise within the last 90 days to take passengers up. It was just a coincidence that the weather went below 1000 and 3 when I was trying to get those three landings done and the discussion about night SVFR came up.
 
Did you have weather reporting nearby? Why leave the house if the weather is marginal, unless you want to raid the hangar fridge?
 
luvflyin said:
The requirement in the US is three landings to a full stop between an hour after sunset and an hour before sunrise within the last 90 days to take passengers up.
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It's three landings and three takeoffs between an after hour sunset and an hour before sunrise. Many people forget the three takeoffs are also in the regs.
 
sourdough44 said:
Did you have weather reporting nearby? Why leave the house if the weather is marginal, unless you want to raid the hangar fridge?
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Hangar talk. Many of us like the people that hang out at our airports!
 
sourdough44 said:
Did you have weather reporting nearby? Why leave the house if the weather is marginal, unless you want to raid the hangar fridge?
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I wouldn't open that fridge without a gas mask on, lol. I knew the weather was going to be close. The forecast was VFR but barely. It was already down to 800 by the time I was ready to start the preflight. I did the preflight and taxied out anyway just to get my head wrapped around night stuff. It's been about 4-5 years since I've flown at night and I'm renting planes I haven't flown before. Doing a flashlight preflight and getting familiar with the cockpit at night was valuable experience. I got the 3 landings done this evening. One greaser, one "i'm alive and the airplane ain't broke" and one "that was ok"
 
luvflyin said:
I wouldn't open that fridge without a gas mask on, lol. I knew the weather was going to be close. The forecast was VFR but barely. It was already down to 800 by the time I was ready to start the preflight. I did the preflight and taxied out anyway just to get my head wrapped around night stuff. It's been about 4-5 years since I've flown at night and I'm renting planes I haven't flown before. Doing a flashlight preflight and getting familiar with the cockpit at night was valuable experience. I got the 3 landings done this evening. One greaser, one "i'm alive and the airplane ain't broke" and one "that was ok"
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800 feet doesn't seem like VFR to me.
 
sourdough44 said:
Did you have weather reporting nearby? Why leave the house if the weather is marginal, unless you want to raid the hangar fridge?
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Ain't going to be no special VFR without weather reporting. You can't have a control zone, er I mean, surface area of controlled airspace designated for an airport, without weather reporting. No (airspace formerly known as a) control zone, no SVFR.
 
jordane93 said:
800 feet doesn't seem like VFR to me.
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It was VFR last night. The 800 foot ceiling was the night before when I didn't depart and started the discussion about whether or not you need to be IFR current for SVFR at night.
 
Caramon13 said:
And actually, that's a great question for a DPE to ask you on your checkride and one that a lot of people miss. Everyone gets that an instrument rating can be used for flying in IMC, on an IFR flight plan, etc, but hardly anyone says "SVFR at night".
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One that I was in the habit of asking on flight reviews if the topic came up was "how do you request a SVFR?"

Nobody ever knew the answer. :confused:
 
MauleSkinner said:
One that I was in the habit of asking on flight reviews if the topic came up was "how do you request a SVFR?"
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Same way I'd order a beer in a bar. I ask the person whose able to fulfill the request for one. "I'd like a beer."

This is distinct from the way you order a round of beers for the house: "My friend would like to order a round for the house."
 
flyingron said:
Same way I'd order a beer in a bar. I ask the person whose able to fulfill the request for one. "I'd like a beer."

This is distinct from the way you order a round of beers for the house: "My friend would like to order a round for the house."
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Unfortunately the pilots I discussed this with didn't know who the bartender was.:dunno:

Of course, the airports we were operating out of didn't have bartenders on site...you had to figure out which of the other bars in the area owned the beer.
 
Its easy to request...at least in the states. I was inbound to Kabul a while back when they were IFR but had SVFR mins. Listening to the freq was hilarious. Pilots from different countries, experience etc dumbfounded at what to say after tower reports "field is IFR. Say your request." Some guys were circling outside the D wondering what to do. I checked in and immediately requested SVFR entry. Controller replied like "hey, someone who knows what they're doing." My clearance immediately followed that.

Kind of like a contact, not really used that often but if you know the rules for it, it's a no brainer. It's harder on the controller than it is for us.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Of course, the airports we were operating out of didn't have bartenders on site...you had to figure out which of the other bars in the area owned the beer.
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Yeah, but if you're in a place where alcohol can be served the menu has the name and phone number of the bartender.
 
Velocity173 said:
Pilots from different countries, experience etc dumbfounded at what to say after tower reports "field is IFR. Say your request."
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Often the prompt is if the controller asks if there's anything SPECIAL they can do for you.

Another hilarious confusion happens when radar goes out and ATC has to beg for the information on position reports. There was a sigh of relief when they got to me and got

Navion 5327K over Florence at 1420 5000 expect Estimate Kinston 1430

Having the GPS display the time and distance to all the fixes on the airway makes computing the ETAs a lot easier.
 
flyingron said:
Another hilarious confusion happens when radar goes out and ATC has to beg for the information on position reports. There was a sigh of relief when they got to me and got

Navion 5327K over Florence at 1420 5000 expect Estimate Kinston 1430
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Was Kinston your clearance limit?
 
roncachamp said:
Was Kinston your clearance limit?
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I made those up (they're just VORs around here and I don't even know if they were even on the same airway). Yeah, I should have added the following point as well.
 
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