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Tom-D

Tom-D

Taxi to Parking
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Feb 23, 2005
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Tom-D
over the years I have spent a lot o bucks getting stuff cleaned, yesterday I bought the tool to do it myself.

next a powder coating oven.
 

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Looks great Tom, bet that will really come in handy.

How long till the 170 is ready to ship out and what is your next project?
 
That looks like one fancy boot holder.
 
I use glass beads, 50 micron, and I was required to remove the shelf that the boots were on, so where else to put them, :)

Tim, we don't have a schedule for 34V but hope to fly it next spring. As far as the next project, who knows, we stumbled on this one, we will probably stumble on the next one too.
 
Tom - I got one of those a few years ago. It works okay but my 30 gal compressor has a tough time keeping up with it. The problem is that all of the large 60 gal compressors are 240v and I only have 120v at the hangar. I have another 25 gal tank that I've been thinking of hooking in to see if it will help.

Right now, when I blast I count to five then stop, count to five and blast again. It helps but eventually I have to take a five minute break to let the compressor catch up.

Maybe what I need is a 240v generator ;)

On another note: the wife is getting a new stove next month which means I'll have the old one. I've often thought about getting that home powder coating setup from Eastwood but never had an oven to use. I think I'll seriously start looking into that.
 
Silvaire said:
Tom - I got one of those a few years ago. It works okay but my 30 gal compressor has a tough time keeping up with it. The problem is that all of the large 60 gal compressors are 240v and I only have 120v at the hangar. I have another 25 gal tank that I've been thinking of hooking in to see if it will help.

Right now, when I blast I count to five then stop, count to five and blast again. It helps but eventually I have to take a five minute break to let the compressor catch up.

Maybe what I need is a 240v generator ;)

On another note: the wife is getting a new stove next month which means I'll have the old one. I've often thought about getting that home powder coating setup from Eastwood but never had an oven to use. I think I'll seriously start looking into that.
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I had one of these kits, the gun lasted about 3 days, then the static generator quit. I used the BBQ for a bake oven, It worked but the parts smelled like steak.
 
Silvaire said:
Tom - I got one of those a few years ago. It works okay but my 30 gal compressor has a tough time keeping up with it. The problem is that all of the large 60 gal compressors are 240v and I only have 120v at the hangar. I have another 25 gal tank that I've been thinking of hooking in to see if it will help.

Right now, when I blast I count to five then stop, count to five and blast again. It helps but eventually I have to take a five minute break to let the compressor catch up.
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With the extra tank, you can count to ten, stop and count to ten instead of five. Then you will eventually have to take a 10 minute break, but you can take them less often.
 
The first batch of parts completed.
 

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Looks great Tom, I am prodding the wife for a trip to Whidbey next year.
 
tmyers said:
Looks great Tom, I am prodding the wife for a trip to Whidbey next year.
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Why wait, It's 40 degrees today, and I could see Mt Rainier from the house most all day.
 
I love sand blasting stuff. I've used sand, walnut shells, glass beads, this black gritting stuff. My blasting is done outside and the stuff goes everywhere! :rolleyes:

I need a cabinet. :yes:

A nice coat of paint on those parts and they are better than new. :yes:
 
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Geico266 said:
I love sand blasting stuff. I've used sand, walnut shells, glass beads, this black gritting stuff. My blasting old done outside and the stuff goes everywhere! :rolleyes:

I need a cabinet. :yes:

A nice coat of paint on those parts and they are better than new. :yes:
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That black grit is copper slag, from the old copper smelters. You don't want to use it on aircraft parts. It is extremely hard and sharp and would leave millions of tiny stress risers. We used it in industrial applications; it was great because it was really cheap and lasted a long time. But it ate the hoses and guns and separation machinery.

I built a bead blaster for the school's shop when I was working in a fabrication shop. Hardest part was the separator and its fan; had to get it balanced just so. It spins at 3750 RPM.

Dan
 
I watched some guy doing an owner-assist annual run his spark plugs through a blaster like that. They were plenty clean when he finished, at least what was left of them.

Tom-D said:
over the years I have spent a lot o bucks getting stuff cleaned, yesterday I bought the tool to do it myself.

next a powder coating oven.
Click to expand...
 
wabower said:
I watched some guy doing an owner-assist annual run his spark plugs through a blaster like that. They were plenty clean when he finished, at least what was left of them.
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Turn the pressure down to 30 psi and use short controlled blasts. It's better than those little handheld plug cleaners because you can see where you need to apply rather than blindly continuing to blast an already clean area while missing the spot that needs it.

I will agree that most owners need to be educated on this subject: when cleaning plugs you want to use the minimum amount of blasting possible right down to none at all if they look fairly clean.
 
Dan Thomas said:
That black grit is copper slag, from the old copper smelters. You don't want to use it on aircraft parts. It is extremely hard and sharp and would leave millions of tiny stress risers. We used it in industrial applications; it was great because it was really cheap and lasted a long time. But it ate the hoses and guns and separation machinery.


Dan
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I used that stuff 30 years ago... Was it called Zircon ?
 
N801BH said:
I used that stuff 30 years ago... Was it called Zircon ?
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Zicron is crushed flint, Copper silicate has not been available since the EPA has controlled the market.

I use 50 micron glass beads because it leaves no residue behind and the magnesium parts will not corrode as quick using it.
 
wabower said:
I watched some guy doing an owner-assist annual run his spark plugs through a blaster like that. They were plenty clean when he finished, at least what was left of them.
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they were probably using a very course grain media, most of the production shops use a 180 grit rose garnet, or 100 grit crushed glass, they will eat away the surface pretty fast.
 
Tom-D said:
over the years I have spent a lot o bucks getting stuff cleaned, yesterday I bought the tool to do it myself.

next a powder coating oven.
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Nice, especially nowadays with all the choices in mediums.

Powder Coat oven is actually pretty easy to build.
 
Tom-D said:
they were probably using a very course grain media, most of the production shops use a 180 grit rose garnet, or 100 grit crushed glass, they will eat away the surface pretty fast.
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They used to sell silicon carbide grit for sparkplug cleaners. Very aggressive stuff. Glass bead is spherical and not nearly so hard and is easy on the plugs.

Dan
 
You may want to have a look at aluminum oxide or garnet instead of glass beads. Most of the paint manufacturers recommend against the glass beads because they don't create a rough enough surface to have the paint stick. Its more like shot blasting where you smooth out the surface.....
I use 100grit alum oxide for all my paint and parkerizing.


Frank
 
BiffJ said:
You may want to have a look at aluminum oxide or garnet instead of glass beads. Most of the paint manufacturers recommend against the glass beads because they don't create a rough enough surface to have the paint stick. Its more like shot blasting where you smooth out the surface.....
I use 100grit alum oxide for all my paint and parkerizing.


Frank
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The main reason for using glass beads is for that purpose alone.. To clean the surface without causing tiny stress risers.. You want to remove paint, stains, oil residue. carbon and all other foreign surface coating so you can visually inspect the part. Also, it helps alot when doing a Zyloglow inspection as it lets the dye itself permeate the surface so the developer work more effectively... As much as I butt heads with Tom ,his knowledge and common sense approach to the basic task is readily apparent.... As for the paint adhesion,, on engine parts that is secondary to inspecting them... You can always etch the surface for better paint stick... After all the projects Tom has done and posted on here, I am amazed this is the first time he has owned a nice bead blasting cabinet...

I can't wait to see his "finished "product on this project.....

Go, Tom, Go... :yes:
 
BiffJ said:
You may want to have a look at aluminum oxide or garnet instead of glass beads. Most of the paint manufacturers recommend against the glass beads because they don't create a rough enough surface to have the paint stick. Its more like shot blasting where you smooth out the surface.....
I use 100grit alum oxide for all my paint and parkerizing.


Frank
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100 grit will remove way too much material from engine parts the gasket surfaces need to stay smooth, and I use a self etching primer that does not need a rough surface.

Glass beads all the way, gotta get the heavy stuff off? use a stripper tank, and steam cleaner.
 
Tom-D said:
100 grit will remove way too much material from engine parts the gasket surfaces need to stay smooth, and I use a self etching primer that does not need a rough surface.

Glass beads all the way, gotta get the heavy stuff off? use a stripper tank, and steam cleaner.
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Yep, that's the way we always did it. Glass beads leave a nice surface, but I have been impressed as heck with some of the foam mediums, I tried one in Aus that left a nicely polished surface even.
 
N801BH said:
TAlso, it helps alot when doing a Zyloglow inspection as it lets the dye itself permeate the surface so the developer work more effectively..
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Never blast any surface before the dye type inspections.

blasting the surface will peen the tiny cracks closed, and the dye will not bleed into them.

Always strip, wash, dye check, then bead blast. or you will miss cracks
 
N801BH said:
After all the projects Tom has done and posted on here, I am amazed this is the first time he has owned a nice bead blasting cabinet...
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I've always farmed the jobs out, but all the shops have gone to heavy media to cut down the man hours to get a job done.

So to get it done right, I now do it my self.
 
Tom-D said:
Never blast any surface before the dye type inspections.

blasting the surface will peen the tiny cracks closed, and the dye will not bleed into them.

Always strip, wash, dye check, then bead blast. or you will miss cracks
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I disagree sir....

We can argue next year...:yes:;)
 
Tom-D said:
simply show me,,,,, any process that uses it as a cleaning method.
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Ok . I will lite the fuse on this "lovely" debate before next year..:yes::lol:..

Going with your twisted logic, you say bead blasting will shotpeen and hide any cracks that are present on a aircraft part...

First.... You do know that shot peening is a surface treatment ?

Second... You do know that the manufacturer of any aircraft part determines the proper procedure to surface treat their product and that guidence needs to be folllowed to meet FAA's rules regarding "cleaning, inspecting, reconditioning and returning a FAA approved part back to service..

All those pretty pics you posted of engine parts you bead blasted /shotpeened are JUNK now... Unless you can show the manufacturers APPROVED procedures have been followed..

Care to post the cleaning , inspecting and shotpeening procedures the manufacturer has issued and that meets the FAA's regulations ?..

Here is but just one case where a repair station didn't follow the rules and got shut down...... Like it or not, the feds can and will squelch your little , one man operation too...

http://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsId=10397

I predict you will now come back and reverse course on the " bead blasting will shotpeen the surface cracks closed" comment.......


5b on page 8 is pertinent to your actions...

http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Order/8110.42C.pdf

:D:D:D:rolleyes:

Balls in your court sir....
 
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N801BH said:
Going with your twisted logic, you say bead blasting will shotpeen and hide any cracks that are present on a aircraft part...
Is it twisted logic to know that Shot peening occurs when thr surface of the metal is struck with a harder object?

First.... You do know that shot peening is a surface treatment ?

Very much so, Shot peening is a method of stress reliving and harding of the surface by moving the molecules of metal by peening.

Is that what you want to do before you try to find a crack?
Second...
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And the rest of your premiss is based upon the part was altered, the FAA does not agree or it would not allow it to be used in almost every major certified repair shop.

The fact is, the shot peening of the surface is a good thing, unless you are looking for cracks. In that case you simply do it after the inspection.

the true method of shot peening is to use steel balls (Shot) of varying sizes to do the job, 50 micron glass beads will in a micro kind of way do the same thing, but in a very minor way but it will close fine cracks.

now show me any dye inspection that recommends using a blast type cleaning method to prepare for inspection using a dye.
 
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Sorry Tom... I forgot this motor you are rebuilding is for a experimental aircraft.... If it was for a certified aircraft you would have needed to send the part out to a FAA approved repair station for cleaning /inspection / dye penetrant and you would have a yellow tag for the part so you can return it to service..

Ps...On a soft part like aluminum or magnesium, the proper way to blast it is to use a finer medium. More like the consistancy of flour... Using brand new glass beads on an aluminum part treats the surface to a texture /hardness the manufacturer or FAA has not approved.. Your engine parts look great :yes:.... Are they legal for a certified motor :dunno::dunno::nonod:...

Personally I don't care... It's your signature in the engine log,, not mine.

Happy New Year.
 
Tom-D said:
.......................
now show me any dye inspection that recommends using a blast type cleaning method to prepare for inspection using a dye.
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Below are the main steps of Liquid Penetrant Inspection:
1. Pre-cleaning:
The test surface is cleaned to remove any dirt, paint, oil, grease or any loose scale that could either keep penetrant out of a defect, or cause irrelevant or false indications. Cleaning methods may include solvents, alkaline cleaning steps, vapor degreasing, or media blasting. The end goal of this step is a clean surface where any defects present are open to the surface, dry, and free of contamination. Note that if media blasting is used, it may "work over" small discontinuities in the part, and an etching bath is recommended as a post-blasting treatment.
 
N801BH said:
Below are the main steps of Liquid Penetrant Inspection:
1. Pre-cleaning:
The test surface is cleaned to remove any dirt, paint, oil, grease or any loose scale that could either keep penetrant out of a defect, or cause irrelevant or false indications. Cleaning methods may include solvents, alkaline cleaning steps, vapor degreasing, or media blasting. The end goal of this step is a clean surface where any defects present are open to the surface, dry, and free of contamination. Note that if media blasting is used, it may "work over" small discontinuities in the part, and an etching bath is recommended as a post-blasting treatment.
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Well, well you found one that allows media blasting, but fails to tell what media, and says you must etch if you want to get good results.

Who would want to use any acid on their parts when the proper order of events will eliminate the requirement.

Anyway, have a happy new year and remember who needs a yellow tag to declare airworthiness of used parts.
 
N801BH said:
Sorry Tom... I forgot this motor you are rebuilding is for a experimental aircraft.... If it was for a certified aircraft you would have needed to send the part out to a FAA approved repair station for cleaning /inspection / dye penetrant and you would have a yellow tag for the part so you can return it to service.
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Ben - I sense from many of your posts that you have a disdain for anything certified but what you are saying here is just plain wrong. An A&P Mechanic can return any part to service that he deems worthy with the exception of instruments. A yellow tag is not required.
 
Silvaire said:
Ben - I sense from many of your posts that you have a disdain for anything certified but what you are saying here is just plain wrong. An A&P Mechanic can return any part to service that he deems worthy with the exception of instruments. A yellow tag is not required.
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I have absolutely NOTHING against certified parts..


My disdain is for A&P's who return parts to service and not do all the proper testing, measuring, cleaning and confirming it is the correct part in the first place.... You and I both know a small time A&P mechanic cannot magnaflux a crank, or polish it, or grind it undersize, or rework connecting rods, or alignbore cases, or bore cylinders, or Zyglo aluminum parts, or a number of other machine work operations and QC tests needed to PROPERLY return an aircraft engine to accepted standards. When I see a one man operation, overhauling an aircraft engine, in house, with no yellow tagged components being used... I scream BS.!!!!!!!

Yeah.... An A&P can steam clean a motor, flex hone the cylinders and re- assemble it, paint it with a couple of cans of Krylon and call it (rebuilt)... And you know it happens all the friggin time too... But.... In the end it is not the highest quality product that can be produced and sold to the general public.... Either do it the best you can using the repair stations that specialize in that area or leave it to professionals.

Aircraft parts that are not properly serviced can and will kill the pilot of a plane.. The mechanic gets to go home at the end of the day in his car/truck... The dead pilot gets put in a body bag.... and a ride in a hearse..

IMHO...
 
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