New 2020 Phrasing

The FAA doesn’t change procedures until the planes were equipped, which was less than 2 weeks ago. I believe now that the system is in use, there will be changes introduced slowly.

Unlikely. The reduced separation tests in Memphis didn’t produce good results. They didn’t publish much about it, but if I had to guess by the design flaws, the system is way too slow and too far behind real time.

If there was anybody and any place who wanted and needed it to help, a FedEx Memphis push is about as “needful” as it gets.
 
I say "have them on ADS-B, looking". At least ATC knows you know about relative location.

They know you know because they told you in the traffic call. "Traffic two o'clock 3 miles...etc" And eventually they'll know because having ADS-B will be a given. Just because someone says "I have them on ADS-B doesn't (won't ever) absolve ATC from continuing to give traffic until it is seen or no longer a factor.
 
They know you know because they told you in the traffic call. "Traffic two o'clock 3 miles...etc" And eventually they'll know because having ADS-B will be a given. Just because someone says "I have them on ADS-B doesn't (won't ever) absolve ATC from continuing to give traffic until it is seen or no longer a factor.
I already said this, but keep saying it over and over, maybe it’ll click with someone. Some people are perceiving adsb to do all sorts of things it can’t do.
 
The FAA doesn’t change procedures until the planes were equipped, which was less than 2 weeks ago. I believe now that the system is in use, there will be changes introduced slowly.

Such as...?

The unstoppable march toward the day when it will become illegal for a human to directly control the aircraft until/unless the automation has failed. Fortunately for all of us that day is a long way off and, with perhaps the exception of the youngest in the crowd, we will all be long gone by then. Those that remain will not have a memory of the days when all we needed was a bit of AVGAS and a few hundred feet of clear ground in front of us (helecopter dirvers notwithstanding) to commit an act of aviation.

:oops:
 
I sorta like, "Target in sight."

"Negative contact" seems to me to imply that you've stopped looking, but I don't know what ATC assumes. The word "looking" implies that I haven't yet seen the traffic but I am still scanning for it.
The words are what the AIM and the P/CG recommend. It should not be a problem for professional pilots or controllers.
 
Don't get me wrong. Do I think ADS-B makes it safer for pilots (ADS-B in) to have an added method of detecting traffic? Of course. But for ATC, I'm not seeing any advantage or the need for change in practices some people here seem to think exists.
 
The over reliance on the screens is scary to me. I recently was doing pattern work with a student when another aircraft called on downwind right after we did. When I asked if he had us in sight, his response was he had us on the ADS-B. Since I couldn't see him I presumed he was in our blind spot aft or underneath. Sorry, when we are within gun range of each other I want you looking out the window, not at the screen.
 
Don't get me wrong. Do I think ADS-B makes it safer for pilots (ADS-B in) to have an added method of detecting traffic? Of course. But for ATC, I'm not seeing any advantage or the need for change in practices some people here seem to think exists.


So far, ADSB traffic has been spotty. Many planes still aren't equipped yet. To me, the bigger advantage is in-cockpit weather.
 
The over reliance on the screens is scary to me. I recently was doing pattern work with a student when another aircraft called on downwind right after we did. When I asked if he had us in sight, his response was he had us on the ADS-B. Since I couldn't see him I presumed he was in our blind spot aft or underneath. Sorry, when we are within gun range of each other I want you looking out the window, not at the screen.

That’s kinda terrifying ... I want to know WHERE on downwind you are. If I can’t get an instant clarification I’m going to break off my downwind.
 
The over reliance on the screens is scary to me. I recently was doing pattern work with a student when another aircraft called on downwind right after we did. When I asked if he had us in sight, his response was he had us on the ADS-B. Since I couldn't see him I presumed he was in our blind spot aft or underneath. Sorry, when we are within gun range of each other I want you looking out the window, not at the screen.

That’s kinda terrifying ... I want to know WHERE on downwind you are. If I can’t get an instant clarification I’m going to break off my downwind.

It won't be long until the guy that doesn't have you in visual contact will be bitching at you for not seeing him on your screen.

It's not unlike the guy who insists that when he "announces" something on the radio everyone is expected to hear him and react accordingly, including NORDO aircraft that he doesn't think should be allowed in the same airspace he's in with his radio.

I like class G airspace for a lot of good reasons.
 
Apparently. Professional doesn't equate to being paid, however. We should all strive to be professional pilots.


Nope. Sorry. Ain't buyin' it. I'm an amateur pilot and quite proud of it. I'm legally forbidden from accepting remuneration and the FAA will take severe action if I do. I will not use, nor even imply, the "professional" moniker.
 
Who knows? It might even change MEAs in mountainous areas and get away from the 2000' rule.

More G routes for IFR. If someone has the right surveillance and equipment codes on their ICAO flight plan, it might open up more options.

Just speculating.

ADSB is unlikely to have anything to do with MEA’s. GPS can because Navaid reception is not an issue where lack of reception can push an MEA higher than what is needed for obstruction clearance. But in neither case, ADSB or GPS, will it change what is needed for obstruction clearance. That’s based on flying altitudes using your Altimeter. The reason for 2000 feet in Designated Mountainous Areas is about Altimetry.
 
ADSB is unlikely to have anything to do with MEA’s. GPS can because Navaid reception is not an issue where lack of reception can push an MEA higher than what is needed for obstruction clearance. But in neither case, ADSB or GPS, will it change what is needed for obstruction clearance. That’s based on flying altitudes using your Altimeter. The reason for 2000 feet in Designated Mountainous Areas is about Altimetry.

Sometimes MIA/MVAs are worse than the MEAs. Flying IFR in ZOA's airspace between PRB and SJC requires 8000 or higher, despite there being a big, flat valley below.
 
Nope. Sorry. Ain't buyin' it. I'm an amateur pilot and quite proud of it. I'm legally forbidden from accepting remuneration and the FAA will take severe action if I do. I will not use, nor even imply, the "professional" moniker.

You don't need to be paid to be considered a professional nor to exhibit professionalism.
 
You don't need to be paid to be considered a professional nor to exhibit professionalism.


But we can expect professionalism from a professional. There’s no right to expect it from an amateur, and certainly no right to insist upon it.
 
Expect it? No, having spent years in the pilot community (and on these forums), I don't expect it. I do strive to achieve it, however.
 
Probably. But to help you out,...

"Tallyho!" is the traditional call to the hounds in equestrian foxhunting when someone sights the fox. It's been used in other settings to mean, loosely, that the quarry is in sight and the chase has begun.

In this context it would simply signify that you've spotted the plane you're looking for.

Tallyho!

Tallyho only when I've spotted a Kitfox.
 
But we can expect professionalism from a professional. There’s no right to expect it from an amateur, and certainly no right to insist upon it.
I was referring more to the fact that among the definitions to "professional" is:
"a person competent or skilled in a particular activity."

and among the definitions for "amateur" is:
"a person who is incompetent or inept at a particular activity."

even the primary definition of "professionalism" reinforces the idea that professional is a measure of skill not remuneration:
"the competence or skill expected of a professional."

By granting you a license, the FAA is stating you meet the minimum competency and skill level to fly without supervision so by these definitions, only a student pilot is an amateur and a private pilot is a professional. Note that you are only issued a student certificate once and once you've attained a pilot certificate of any type, you no longer require a student license for further category/class add-ons.

Of we also measure "professionals" across a broad range. By your definition, a Commercial pilot is or can be a professional and is no different than an ATP and an ATP flying for fun can claim to be an amateur. I'd also note that "minor league" sports players are paid which makes them professionals by some definitions, even though we rarely refer to them as such.
 
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Yes, that's among the definitions for amateur, but the first definition is "a person who engages in a pursuit, especially a sport, on an unpaid rather than a professional basis."

Pilots using ATC services range from the 15 hour student pilot to the 150 hour private pilot like me to the 15,000 hour airline pilot. No, we're not all professionals, and ATC is required to work with that entire range. Furthermore, "preferred" phrasing from the AIM is just that - preferred, not required. Plain English is perfectly acceptable, and with a sky full of non-professionals it is unreasonable to expect everyone to talk like the captain of an airliner. It's also to be expected that jargon and slang will work their way into communications, and I'd be surprised to learn that ATC has a serious problem with it.

For example, I usually respond to "Frequency change approved" by replying, "10-4, good buddy. Threes and eights and all them good numbers to ya, and we'll catch ya on the flip. Buh-bye!"
 
For example, I usually respond to "Frequency change approved" by replying, "10-4, good buddy. Threes and eights and all them good numbers to ya, and we'll catch ya on the flip. Buh-bye!"
And I thought I was being corny by saying "no more squawkin' and no more talkin'"
 
I consider ATC as if it were traffic cop in the middle of an intersection. They tell ME when to go and where regardless of what the other traffic is doing. I fly at a non powered airport and do not have ADSB in the aircraft yet. My take on this is that my response would be: cleared one eight right number 3 (making no ADSB comment unless they asked). That response confirms to ATC that I got and understand the instructions. If ATC required a response from me and did not get it because someone broadcast their ADSB position over my transmission then they would ask. Fly the plane keep everybody safe follow the instructions. Tallyho is like got it.
 
They’ve been clear it isn’t a primary traffic system from the beginning.
...
As someone said in another thread, there’s an ADS-B Out mandate, it has little to do with traffic management, and ADS-B IN isn’t mandated at all.

It’s not a traffic system. That’s just a side effect.
...

Wait for it...

ACAS X, the FAA-funded research and development program of a new approach to airborne collision avoidance has been ongoing since 2008. ... It is the intention that ACAS X will eventually replace TCAS.
...
ACAS X variants:
■ ACAS XA: The general purpose ACAS X that makes active interrogations to establish the range of intruders. The successor to TCAS II.
■ ACAS XP: A version of ACAS X that relies solely on passive ADS-B to track intruders and does not make active interrogations. It is intended for general aviation (a class of aircraft not currently required to fit TCAS II).
■ ACAS XO: A mode of operation of ACAS X designed for particular operations for which ACAS XA is unsuitable and might generate an unacceptable number of nuisance alerts (e.g. procedures with reduced separation, such as closely spaced parallel approaches).
■ ACAS XU: Designed for Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS).

https://www.skybrary.aero/bookshelf/books/2390.pdf
 
The over reliance on the screens is scary to me. I recently was doing pattern work with a student when another aircraft called on downwind right after we did. When I asked if he had us in sight, his response was he had us on the ADS-B. Since I couldn't see him I presumed he was in our blind spot aft or underneath. Sorry, when we are within gun range of each other I want you looking out the window, not at the screen.

sadly it’s like most things. A tool becomes the primary resource! I have seen pilots can’t fly without autopilot. Pilots can’t navigate without GPS. And now pilots relying on ADS to see traffic.
 
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