Never hurts to file IFR!

[benyflyguy]

today I took a trip up to KBAF. It’s about 2/3 the way to KLWM from my field and I wanted to practice the legs and airspace for a flight next weekend. Has nice airport. Nice on field restaurant with deck on top to eat. (That me in the middle)
I filed IFR more for the practice and procedure. Got off a bit later then I would have liked-a potential error this time of year. The sky’s filled with clouds quickly. Some building cumulus. Filed for 7k quickly asked for 9. Was nice for awhile. Until I encounter this thing
My path was straight at it. Most of what I encountered so far was brief turbulence. This one was different. Turbulence was moderate and like the say “ you can’t see the other side of the cloud.” It was bigger then the others. Had to turn off the autopilot. Hard to keep attitude. Very quickly asked ATC to give me a descent. Got back down to 7 and was out of it much better. Bumpy the rest of the way there in and out of the clouds.
Looking back, I should have recognized that it was a building cumulus-different then the others- ask ATC to for a 20-20 degree deviation. Go around it. But I was happy I quickly realized I needed to get down and out of the more turbulent part and requested it.
I sometimes fall into the “this is the line a and altitude I chose-stick with it” but today was different.
Way back was a bit bumpy. Choose 6k that kept me at the bases and in the clouds a bit. But kept me away from this

Overall day was a success imo. Learned, had fun, scared myself a bit.
Told wife when I got back that next week when I say wheels up at 8am I mean it! Lol.

 

[chemgeek]

Yep. If you file IFR, you are ready for changes in weather. No stress, no mess.

 

[geezer]

I like airports with the VOR on the field. You can track inbound direct from way out, usually as a part of the Victor airway that you are flying. Non precision approach, but adequate for most of the flying that I did, as I rarely flew when the forecast was below 800 feet. Too many times, the 800 feet decreased to much less before I arrived, and I diverted to a nearby with a precision approach, if the destination did not have one.

 

[simtech]

We came back from Texas a few weeks ago. I knew there were some storms along the way but VFR departure and arrival. So off we go VFR. Storms were easily navigated VFR but man afternoon puffies at home were rough. I descended 60 miles out in a big opening and was slogging along in the heat and bumps. I should have got a pop up IFR but just didn't think about it as I was so close to home. But yes file no matter what is my new motto on any longish XC for now on.

Great post and pics!

 

[Somedudeintn]

I was flying back from Oshkosh and was VFR south of Indy and unable to climb up to my desired altitude due to clouds. I was already on flight following and it was the easiest pop-up IFR I’ve done. Got to do about an hour in the clouds.

Keep the pop-up in mind if you don’t file.

 

[luvflyin]

today I took a trip up to KBAF. It’s about 2/3 the way to KLWM from my field and I wanted to practice the legs and airspace for a flight next weekend. Has nice airport. Nice on field restaurant with deck on top to eat. (That me in the middle)View attachment 76763
I filed IFR more for the practice and procedure. Got off a bit later then I would have liked-a potential error this time of year. The sky’s filled with clouds quickly. Some building cumulus. Filed for 7k quickly asked for 9. Was nice for awhile. Until I encounter this thingView attachment 76762
My path was straight at it. Most of what I encountered so far was brief turbulence. This one was different. Turbulence was moderate and like the say “ you can’t see the other side of the cloud.” It was bigger then the others. Had to turn off the autopilot. Hard to keep attitude. Very quickly asked ATC to give me a descent. Got back down to 7 and was out of it much better. Bumpy the rest of the way there in and out of the clouds.
Looking back, I should have recognized that it was a building cumulus-different then the others- ask ATC to for a 20-20 degree deviation. Go around it. But I was happy I quickly realized I needed to get down and out of the more turbulent part and requested it.
I sometimes fall into the “this is the line a and altitude I chose-stick with it” but today was different.
Way back was a bit bumpy. Choose 6k that kept me at the bases and in the clouds a bit. But kept me away from this View attachment 76764

Overall day was a success imo. Learned, had fun, scared myself a bit.
Told wife when I got back that next week when I say wheels up at 8am I mean it! Lol.

Great post. Departure airport? Route of flight?

EDIT: got the departure. I remembered this and found it https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/where-to-go.120568/

MORE EDIT: Ah Ha. In Foreflight Route Advisor there was this under ATC Cleared, Yesterday (1x) LVZ V93 LAAYK T212 VEERS V405 BAF. Was that you?

 

[luvflyin]

I like airports with the VOR on the field. You can track inbound direct from way out, usually as a part of the Victor airway that you are flying. Non precision approach, but adequate for most of the flying that I did, as I rarely flew when the forecast was below 800 feet. Too many times, the 800 feet decreased to much less before I arrived, and I diverted to a nearby with a precision approach, if the destination did not have one.

Looks like he was doin the direct to the VOR thang and put er down with a perfect short field landing right into a parking spot

 

[benyflyguy]

Great post. Departure airport? Route of flight?

EDIT: got the departure. I remembered this and found it https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/where-to-go.120568/

MORE EDIT: Ah Ha. In Foreflight Route Advisor there was this under ATC Cleared, Yesterday (1x) LVZ V93 LAAYK T212 VEERS V405 BAF. Was that you?

That was me! In future I’m going to ask ATC before I get too close to that building culumlus for a 20 deg deviation. I don’t mind IMC but the turb in that thing was a bit much.
Way back they give me a different clearance then FF thought it would be.

 

[Pugs]

Yep. If you file IFR, you are ready for changes in weather. No stress, no mess.

Yep. A lot of times it takes me longer with routing up and back on the NE but it's also nice to not worry about the deck or occasional set of clouds. Besides, the wife asks "we are filing IFR right"

 

[Palmpilot]

I sometimes fall into the “this is the line a and altitude I chose-stick with it” but today was different.

Weather reports and forecasts are not always accurate. Flexibility is a survival skill.

 

[EdFred]

Never hurts....well unless you want to fly near Chicago.

 

[geezer]

Yep, wandered through that mess from Northport MI to Lincoln NE. Those guys and gals do their best to send you way south. The trick is to file into one of their airports, and modify after you are well into the airspace.

 

[N1120A]

Unless I know it will make a material difference in time, for release or for route, I'm always IFR. Sometimes, I even file from a waypoint and pick up in the air, just cause I want to be IFR, and I live and fly in an area where FF is something they almost never deny to someone who can talk on the radio. It is that much safer and adaptable. Also, layers sometimes appear from nowhere, and no one wants to scud run.

 

[chemgeek]

Especially here in the northeast, if you want to transition class B airspace or fly into the DC SFRA, filing IFR will make things WAY easier. Sometimes you will get re-routed, but if you are smart about flight planning and find preferred or commonly used routings, you can often get pretty much get what you file. I can often get clearance direct at some point along my filed route, especially if you are high enough. (Helps to be /G, or is it /GR PBN/C2D2 in ICAO-speak?)

 

[steingar]

Never hurts....well unless you want to fly near Chicago.

Coming back from Oshkosh my passenger suggested I request a clearance to transit the Chicago Bravo. I think it was about 10 minutes before I stopped laughing.

 

[frfly172]

I like to file on long cross countries.

 

[benyflyguy]

So the post was about a practice flight for the real day. That was today.
Once again the IFR helped. We are in that time of year with still air that there is a fair amount of morning fog. Both at home, KHZL and destination KLWM. So waited until destination showed lifting ceilings and was 500/2. Took off at home with 700 overcast thin layer initially. With some layers up to 9000. Was nice smooth as glass. Boston Center was feeling friendly and gave me direct DREEM from way out to chop off a big leg. Loaded wife and kids and surprising amount of crap into 182. Wife wears the foggles so she doesn’t see outside By the time I got over the Hudson the weather improved to severe clear. Family got just a little taste of why we leave early as descent into Boston got a bit bumpy but not bad at all

 

[EvilEagle]

Never say 'never' or 'always' right? I have some friends that exclusively fly IFR even on beautiful days. If that's what you need to do to stay proficient, go for it. There's a lot of flexibility, capability and awesomeness in VFR flying. Another thing to remember (especially since we are on poA) is that America is one of the very few places with the ability and freedom to fly VFR, if everyone stops using this freedom we could lose it. I fly IFR when necessary, but mostly fly VFR in GA since all my work flights are IFR. Keep your skills sharp for sure but saying IFR solves all your problems is naïve IME.

 

[bflynn]

Don’t worry, I ALWAYS fly VFR.

 

[luvflyin]

So the post was about a practice flight for the real day. That was today.
Once again the IFR helped. We are in that time of year with still air that there is a fair amount of morning fog. Both at home, KHZL and destination KLWM. So waited until destination showed lifting ceilings and was 500/2. Took off at home with 700 overcast thin layer initially. With some layers up to 9000. Was nice smooth as glass. Boston Center was feeling friendly and gave me direct DREEM from way out to chop off a big leg. Loaded wife and kids and surprising amount of crap into 182. Wife wears the foggles so she doesn’t see outside View attachment 76910View attachment 76911By the time I got over the Hudson the weather improved to severe clear. Family got just a little taste of why we leave early as descent into Boston got a bit bumpy but not bad at all

Sounds like your wife has a little fear of heights but she’ll go up with you anyway. And the kids are nodding off in the back meaning you ain’t scaring them. Good job. I think I found you in Foreflight route advisor again. ATC Cleared (1x) and it was Friday. LVZ V93 LAAYK T212 VEERS V405 BAF V106 GDM. DREEM is not on that and is not an Approach fix into LWM. What did they give you after DREEM when they gave you direct?

 

[Palmpilot]

Never say 'never' or 'always' right? I have some friends that exclusively fly IFR even on beautiful days. If that's what you need to do to stay proficient, go for it. There's a lot of flexibility, capability and awesomeness in VFR flying. Another thing to remember (especially since we are on poA) is that America is one of the very few places with the ability and freedom to fly VFR, if everyone stops using this freedom we could lose it. I fly IFR when necessary, but mostly fly VFR in GA since all my work flights are IFR. Keep your skills sharp for sure but saying IFR solves all your problems is naïve IME.

Another problem with "always" flying IFR is that there are situations where VFR is safer, such as when there are icing conditions at and above the MEA, and sometimes thunderstorms are easier to avoid when VFR. And of course there are places where the MEA may be above the service ceiling of the aircraft being flown.

 

[EdFred]

Another problem with "always" flying IFR is that there are situations where VFR is safer, such as when there are icing conditions at and above the MEA, and sometimes thunderstorms are easier to avoid when VFR. And of course there are places where the MEA may be above the service ceiling of the aircraft being flown.

Or for the east coasters that get sent on the "shark route" and have hydrophobia.

 

[geezer]

Edfred, about the Shark Route, as I am a Commercial rated pilot, I file the plan as Air Taxi, and refuse over water, illegal since I have no PFD's or raft. Then I change my destination to Laguardia, and cancel when the descent starts, and refile my previous destination and route. That prevents the long detour west. Not many times, but worked every time.

ATC has done me wrong a few times, including refusing an altitude change when I was flying a 172 in an icing layer, so I do not feel bad about sticking them once in a while.

 

[benyflyguy]

Sounds like your wife has a little fear of heights but she’ll go up with you anyway. And the kids are nodding off in the back meaning you ain’t scaring them. Good job. I think I found you in Foreflight route advisor again. ATC Cleared (1x) and it was Friday. LVZ V93 LAAYK T212 VEERS V405 BAF V106 GDM. DREEM is not on that and is not an Approach fix into LWM. What did they give you after DREEM when they gave you direct?

As soon as Wilkes barre approach handed me off the Boston center they gave me direct DREEM. That was nice.

Another problem with "always" flying IFR is that there are situations where VFR is safer, such as when there are icing conditions at and above the MEA, and sometimes thunderstorms are easier to avoid when VFR. And of course there are places where the MEA may be above the service ceiling of the aircraft being flown.

I like to be flexible. I was trying to get out of KCGS a few months ago and they were holding me for someone coming in seemingly forever. Had to feel calling in over phone with plane started. Just took off VFR and picked up clearance in the air. Other instances when I seem to be getting rerouted and it’s vfr I’ll just cancel.
This Instance I had to get out of HZL with a 800’ ceiling and there were some layers. I’m still a young IFR certified pilot. It’s nice to get the practice in early. When I goto 26N the route IFR adds 20 min at least to the flight so I just go direct unless weather dictates differently.

 

[Velocity173]

Well on rare occasions it hurts. Until they get a low altitude helo IFR system, for what I do, it’s too restrictive. I can’t file at 300 ft with ATC and get service to a road intersection with no IAP. Even with ADS-B the IFR system is too restrictive for that kind of op. Too restrictive for most military helo ops as well but I digress.

Personal flying, I haven’t filed in years. I do a lot of VFR over the top and haven’t had any issues in getting a pop up IFR either. You also have the freedom of transiting MOAs VFR if you chose and a reduction in separation standards vs IFR flight. So yeah, there are times where VFR has its benefits.

 

[EdFred]

Edfred, about the Shark Route, as I am a Commercial rated pilot, I file the plan as Air Taxi, and refuse over water, illegal since I have no PFD's or raft. Then I change my destination to Laguardia, and cancel when the descent starts, and refile my previous destination and route. That prevents the long detour west. Not many times, but worked every time.

ATC has done me wrong a few times, including refusing an altitude change when I was flying a 172 in an icing layer, so I do not feel bad about sticking them once in a while.

The life raft is only required if you are carrying for hire. So you were providing your own airplane as a commercial operation without a certificate?

 

[N1120A]

Never say 'never' or 'always' right? I have some friends that exclusively fly IFR even on beautiful days. If that's what you need to do to stay proficient, go for it. There's a lot of flexibility, capability and awesomeness in VFR flying. Another thing to remember (especially since we are on poA) is that America is one of the very few places with the ability and freedom to fly VFR, if everyone stops using this freedom we could lose it. I fly IFR when necessary, but mostly fly VFR in GA since all my work flights are IFR. Keep your skills sharp for sure but saying IFR solves all your problems is naïve IME.

Lots of places give people the "ability and freedom" to fly VFR. In fact, when flying light airplanes in many countries, you are partially locked out of the IFR system, or get poor services.

I fly IFR as a rule, but it is a rule with many exceptions.

Another problem with "always" flying IFR is that there are situations where VFR is safer, such as when there are icing conditions at and above the MEA, and sometimes thunderstorms are easier to avoid when VFR. And of course there are places where the MEA may be above the service ceiling of the aircraft being flown.

There's no question there. I was flying back from HND yesterday and it was HOT in Vegas. Even hotter than normal. I had no interest in meeting the required climb gradient for IFR flight and cooking my cylinders in my normally aspirated airplane, so I flew VFR with FF from the ground and climbed 100-200 fpm with the mix in after taking off. Icing is definitely another one where VFR is safer, especially if you have a decent ceiling.

 

[StanN45]

Another problem with "always" flying IFR is that there are situations where VFR is safer, such as when there are icing conditions at and above the MEA, and sometimes thunderstorms are easier to avoid when VFR. And of course there are places where the MEA may be above the service ceiling of the aircraft being flown.

I agree with this. Sometimes when I'm dealing with the summer time, fair weather cumulus, I would rather stay VFR and have the flexibility to maneuver around them when possible. On an IFR flight plan, even when given deviations, sometimes the clouds are such that you can't avoid all of the cumulus and the bumps that go with them. I don't like turbulence.... Now, a layer of stratus,,,,bring it on!

 

[Velocity173]

463 miles today VFR and a broke transponder! Kinda nice not hearing ATC yapping all the time.

 

[mwagg737]

That was me! In future I’m going to ask ATC before I get too close to that building culumlus for a 20 deg deviation.

Instead of asking for a specific degree of deviation, simply ask for left or right deviation, whichever way you want to go. This leaves it open for whatever you need to do. If the controller wants to limit you, they will. But why limit yourself?

 

[TheGolfPilot]

I fly IFR out of pure laziness sometimes. It is so easy. They tell you where to go and how high a couple times, next thing you know the runway is in front of you. Twice this week I have gone to John Wayne and both times it was hard VMC and both times I filed IFR because I didn't feel like dealing with VFR routes, "slam dunking" or going around Class B, or hoping for a magical class B clearance.

 

[lancie00]

I fly IFR out of pure laziness sometimes. It is so easy. They tell you where to go and how high a couple times, next thing you know the runway is in front of you. Twice this week I have gone to John Wayne and both times it was hard VMC and both times I filed IFR because I didn't feel like dealing with VFR routes, "slam dunking" or going around Class B, or hoping for a magical class B clearance.

I haven't had my IFR very long and I'm seeing the same thing. Just easier to file IFR and fly where they want you to go.

 

[MooneyDriver78]

I haven't had my IFR very long and I'm seeing the same thing. Just easier to file IFR and fly where they want you to go.

Here in SE Florida, if you file to go from say KSUA to KFXE, instead of a quick scenic 60nm flight down the coast, they vector you out west then south, then back east, almost double the mileage. All in an effort to get you clear of all the coastal airports!
Thanks, but no thanks.
VFR gives you freedom, unless weather dictates or there is Bravo airspace I need to navigate or someone needs to track my flights, I will fly VFR.


Tom

 

[hindsight2020]

Here in SE Florida, if you file to go from say KSUA to KFXE, instead of a quick scenic 60nm flight down the coast, they vector you out west then south, then back east, almost double the mileage. All in an effort to get you clear of all the coastal airports!
Thanks, but no thanks.
VFR gives you freedom, unless weather dictates or there is Bravo airspace I need to navigate or someone needs to track my flights, I will fly VFR.


Tom

Ditto. Without the benefit of the kind of speeds my work airplane has for instance, IFR in some terminal areas can be just too circuitous at 2nm/min.

 

[steingar]

ATC ever tries nonsense like that with me and I'm assigning myself a new squawk code that starts with a 7.

ATC has done me wrong a few times, including refusing an altitude change when I was flying a 172 in an icing layer, so I do not feel bad about sticking them once in a while.

 

[asicer]

I haven't had my IFR very long and I'm seeing the same thing. Just easier to file IFR and fly where they want you to go.

Not always. I had taken off IFR in the morning, punched a layer and as I was cruising along the weather cleaned itself up to be clear and a million approaching a mountain pass with my destination just on the other side. Then I got the call...

Center: "I have a re-route for you, advise when ready to copy."
Me: "Ready to copy."
Center: <2 dozen VOR's, intersections and V-airways taking me 50 miles out of my way>
Me: "Cancel IFR. I'll just shoot the pass."

 

[TheGolfPilot]

Here in SE Florida, if you file to go from say KSUA to KFXE, instead of a quick scenic 60nm flight down the coast, they vector you out west then south, then back east, almost double the mileage. All in an effort to get you clear of all the coastal airports!
Thanks, but no thanks.
VFR gives you freedom, unless weather dictates or there is Bravo airspace I need to navigate or someone needs to track my flights, I will fly VFR.


Tom

It’s a pick what’s going to get you faster thing. In Northern California I have been given reroutes that literally double distance travelled. The worst part is, even if you are vfr they’ll vector you put clear to the valley. Ill play nice for small turns but when they tell me to turn 45 degrees left and expect a turn in 20 miles I just tell them I’ll cancel all services and see you next time... if it’s IMC your just sol though


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[flyingron]

I was flying back from Oshkosh and was VFR south of Indy and unable to climb up to my desired altitude due to clouds. I was already on flight following and it was the easiest pop-up IFR I’ve done. Got to do about an hour in the clouds.

Keep the pop-up in mind if you don’t file.

Yep, coming back over central Indiana I'm getting FF and say to ATC " Gee, it looks like it's clouding up ahead, can I get IFR at 9000?" which results in "Cleared direct to Culpepper, maintain 9000." Poof, your IFR. Done so lots of times. Worse they can say is "go to flight service and file." I was just hoping that I wasn't going to need an approach at CJR. My plates were in the baggage compartment, though I knew I had ChartView in the MX20.

 

[PaulS]

I fly IFR out of pure laziness sometimes. It is so easy. They tell you where to go and how high a couple times, next thing you know the runway is in front of you. Twice this week I have gone to John Wayne and both times it was hard VMC and both times I filed IFR because I didn't feel like dealing with VFR routes, "slam dunking" or going around Class B, or hoping for a magical class B clearance.

I do this too now, tried it a few weeks ago, KFDK to KBED, and was given an expected route over jfk, an extra 15 minutes with out the in air reroutes. So I flew my original route vfr.

 

[Kritchlow]

IFR has a definite purpose and benefits for certain operations.
Flying a single prop on a good weather day is probably not one of them.