Near miss between Byron and Tracy today

U

Unregistered

Guest
Flying towards KTCY over the canal when I was surprised by a low wing Northwest bound at the same altitude, just a bit higher. I had a couple of teenage boys in the plane, my son in the back and his friend who was a aviation buff (flying on MS flightsim). He was holding course while I was too heads down looking at the chart trying to locate and avoid the restricted area.

In retrospect, I had tried to fly by checklists, and showing my son's friend around, but had been told by NorCal to squawk VFR. I have no collision avoidance in the aircraft and should of had my head on a swivel. My Bad. Not sure about the other pilot, but it was too close for comfort. This is as close to a near miss as I've had in some time.

Back at my home field, spoke to an experienced pilot who said, well it's a nice day, Sunday afternoon and there's a lot of traffic in that area.

Just wanting to vent.
 
So, did you file a NASA form? You can do that online.
Even squawking 1200, NorCal should see you and provide advisories to the airliner. Plus his TCAS should have directed him to climb/turn.
 
BillTIZ said:
So, did you file a NASA form? You can do that online.
Even squawking 1200, NorCal should see you and provide advisories to the airliner. Plus his TCAS should have directed him to climb/turn.
Click to expand...

Don't see anything about an airliner in there..
 
I was practicing steep turns in that general area with a new CFI. I saw a 172 pass about 100 feet below us. I exclaimed a few choice words and asked the CFI if he saw that, he calmly said...."Saw what?".

I never flew with him again. This is also a CFI would couldn't demonstrate a turn around a point.
 
Unregistered said:
Flying towards KTCY over the canal when I was surprised by a low wing Northwest bound at the same altitude, just a bit higher. I had a couple of teenage boys in the plane, my son in the back and his friend who was a aviation buff (flying on MS flightsim). He was holding course while I was too heads down looking at the chart trying to locate and avoid the restricted area.

In retrospect, I had tried to fly by checklists, and showing my son's friend around, but had been told by NorCal to squawk VFR. I have no collision avoidance in the aircraft and should of had my head on a swivel. My Bad. Not sure about the other pilot, but it was too close for comfort. This is as close to a near miss as I've had in some time.

Back at my home field, spoke to an experienced pilot who said, well it's a nice day, Sunday afternoon and there's a lot of traffic in that area.

Just wanting to vent.
Click to expand...

Collision avoidance is a shared responsibility. Nice, Sunday afternoons near airports require an extra level of outside surveillance. I've had close calls before too, and in my mind I dropped the ball just as much as the other guy.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Just to be clear, are you saying you are mad at the other guy or frustrated at the situation, or?
Click to expand...

Just upset that I wasn't scanning as I should and didn't see them sooner and make avoiding turns, altitude changes. Think I'm gonna order a PCAS device tonight.
 
Old Geek said:
It was soupy today in the Sac valley. I stay down low unless I'm on VFR flight following.
Click to expand...


Old Geek,

Tell me more about your strategy of staying down low, how does this provide an extra margin of safety when not getting flight following?

I've thought about this and am wondering if it's because your about a 1,000' and there's less traffic at this altitude unless it's a traffic pattern?

Thanks.

Unreg,
 
BillTIZ said:
Sorry, I read the post and when commenting remembered the norwest and thought NWA.
Click to expand...

Ha no apology necessary, figured you just mis read.

To the unregistered op.. I don't know if id fault your instructor, depends on the circumstance. We all rely on the big sky theory somewhat.


As for low altitude flying.. I've seen plenty of helos (usually robinson) and ultralights down there to be concerned. However if you are actively scanning for traffic it is easier to see someone above the horizon than below it.

Usually if i am below 3000 agl and not talking to anyone (battling headwinds and trying to stay low) i'll settle on some random altitude like 2700 msl. Reason being most folks are going to cruise on the 1000 or +500 altitudes. Watch 4 towers.
 
Last edited:
Below 5,000 ft. is Indian Country. Keep the eyes outside the plane, and even if maneuvering around a busy area you can still get FF, not that it is a cure all, because I've had them miss planes too.
 
I fly in the SF Bay Area and have LOTS of planes get very close. And I always get flight following. Even when they were RESTRICTING 777s below me they seemed way close. And the ones above me I was worried about wake turbulence. On my Bay Tour one plane was not talking to them one day and was headed straight for us. This area is filled with planes..... not sure what to say except know the busy areas and ask all people in plane (CRM) to look for traffic.

Kimberly
 
Yes, bay area is pretty busy, especially around the well known reporting points. I have had three close calls, two over Altamont pass, and one at Sunol golf course. It is scary at the moment, but I'm not too concerned as in-air collision is extremely rare.
 
Unregistered said:
Just upset that I wasn't scanning as I should and didn't see them sooner and make avoiding turns, altitude changes. Think I'm gonna order a PCAS device tonight.
Click to expand...

Gotcha, thanks for clarifying. I think you have the right attitude about it. It can be upsetting to see someone buzz by, before you even have time to go, "oh crap!". (I am all for voluntary use of technology to prevent....but completely against more regulation even if it means accepting this risk.)
Good luck, let us know how the pcas works.
 
MoltenLava said:
Yes, bay area is pretty busy, especially around the well known reporting points. I have had three close calls, two over Altamont pass, and one at Sunol golf course. It is scary at the moment, but I'm not too concerned as in-air collision is extremely rare.
Click to expand...

Another Bay Area pilot? I sent you a PM. So cool to see more California people on POA.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
I fly in the SF Bay Area and have LOTS of planes get very close. And I always get flight following. Even when they were RESTRICTING 777s below me they seemed way close. And the ones above me I was worried about wake turbulence. On my Bay Tour one plane was not talking to them one day and was headed straight for us. This area is filled with planes..... not sure what to say except know the busy areas and ask all people in plane (CRM) to look for traffic.
Click to expand...

Yeah... as a bay area, ah, frequent flyer, I will also add my voice to the busy skies comments. It's funny, too. When I go out in nice days, there are tons of folks around who aren't even on following with ATC ("unidentified aircraft to your X o'clock" is common on those days).

Then, on the days when I fly with somewhat more marginal weather - the ones where I need SVFR to get out of Concord, or am in IFR training - the sky is full of folks practicing IFR as well.

And during the night, which is my favorite time to fly, there's usually a whole bunch of people over the bay who are, like me, looking at the pretty lights.

I think the closest call I had thus far was when ATC gave me one of those "unidentified aircraft" comments, first saying "on your 6", then wondering out loud whether he was, in fact, 200 feet right under me. I moved to the side and started climbing. Indeed he was.
 
This isn't Top Gun, you won't 'flame out' if crossing an airliner's wake when he is cleaned up for the enroute. Wake turb is most severe when they are slow, in the landing config. However, having said that, yes, by all means be diligent. But you won't spin out of the sky so that ear is unfounded.

SUNOL is a collecting point for aircraft. Lots of traffic in the bay area. To promote awareness I suggest VFR flyers inspect a lo alt IFR chart of the area.

Receiving FF is not mandatory. Heck, even flying without comm radios is legal. I just am so tired of the comments that so and so pilot wasn't even talking to ATC and that makes him so dangerous he better stay on the ground.
 
Last edited:
Anthony said:
Below 5,000 ft. is Indian Country. Keep the eyes outside the plane, and even if maneuvering around a busy area you can still get FF, not that it is a cure all, because I've had them miss planes too.
Click to expand...
What you say is true. Yet the obverse can be more safe. I have flown tween RHV, TCY, DVO, OAK and that area at 1,500 msl. Way less traffic down there, like I had the sky to myself. The added benefit was being able to do direct...avoiding the dithering climb, circling, descent, yada yada.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
I fly in the SF Bay Area and have LOTS of planes get very close. And I always get flight following. Even when they were RESTRICTING 777s below me they seemed way close. And the ones above me I was worried about wake turbulence. On my Bay Tour one plane was not talking to them one day and was headed straight for us. This area is filled with planes..... not sure what to say except know the busy areas and ask all people in plane (CRM) to look for traffic.

Kimberly
Click to expand...

Still wondering if the other plane (low wing PA 28?) even saw me at all, I just saw this converging airplane at the last second, close enough to see individual rivets on the underside. IF we converged at 200 mph, that doesn't provide enough time if an effective scan, scan, scan isn't deployed. Hope that I can fly relaxed while still scanning aggressively.
 
BillTIZ said:
So, did you file a NASA form? You can do that online.
Even squawking 1200, NorCal should see you and provide advisories to the airliner. Plus his TCAS should have directed him to climb/turn.
Click to expand...

TCAS will NEVER direct you into a turn. All of it's instructions are in the vertical direction (Climb, descend, change of vertical speed).
 
Piloto said:
I had similar mid-air encounters like this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwT6yP1UXE4 and decide to get a traffic warning device like the Monroy Traffic-Watch http://www.monroyaero.com/ATD300Webpage8.pdf It works pretty good and has kept me alerted of nearby traffic.

José
Click to expand...

I did not follow your link, but I was in a privately owned aircraft over the weekend and it had a small box that would tell us about traffic (I think only within 5 miles). What scared me the most is that I only saw 50% or less of the planes it mentioned. It would list their distance from us (in miles) and their altitude, and if they were climbing or descending. Sometimes it would have beeps / ALERT if and when the plane was really close (like in a traffic pattern).
 
Richard said:
This isn't Top Gun, you won't 'flame out' if crossing an airliner's wake when he is cleaned up for the enroute. Wake turb is most severe when they are slow, in the landing config. However, having said that, yes, by all means be diligent. But you won't spin out of the sky so that ear is unfounded.
Click to expand...

Incorrect. Wake turbulence is most severe when they are slow, heavy, and clean. (flaps up, gear up) Departure configuration, in other words. But they can get you any time.

One of my favorite wake turbulence encounters... "One of the aileron mass balance weights was located on November 16, 1999, in the bedroom of an unoccupied apartment where it had penetrated the roof and ceiling." http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief2.aspx?ev_id=20001212X20121&ntsbno=LAX00LA035&akey=1

Another good one... "The Cessna 172 rolled almost instantly to a 90 degree right bank, and descended in a nearly straight nose-down attitude." http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief2.aspx?ev_id=20061122X01707&ntsbno=SEA07IA019&akey=1
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
I did not follow your link, but I was in a privately owned aircraft over the weekend and it had a small box that would tell us about traffic (I think only within 5 miles). What scared me the most is that I only saw 50% or less of the planes it mentioned. It would list their distance from us (in miles) and their altitude, and if they were climbing or descending. Sometimes it would have beeps / ALERT if and when the plane was really close (like in a traffic pattern).
Click to expand...

The more you fly the more you learn that the primary mechanism behind the "See & Avoid" concept is luck.

I flew to KLMO a few months back. Listened to the CTAF from about 10 out and knew that there were 5 planes in the pattern. I managed to find 1 of them, then decided that there were other airports I could to T&Gs at.
 
COFlyBoy said:
The more you fly the more you learn that the primary mechanism behind the "See & Avoid" concept is luck.

I flew to KLMO a few months back. Listened to the CTAF from about 10 out and knew that there were 5 planes in the pattern. I managed to find 1 of them, then decided that there were other airports I could to T&Gs at.
Click to expand...

Wow. Good call. At my airport, even though I was trained to minimize what I say on the radio, we often have 2-5 planes in the pattern. It is common for two pilots to describe, in detail, where they are if the other one does not have them in sight.
 
Old Thread: Hello . There have been no replies in this thread for 365 days.
Content in this thread may no longer be relevant.
Perhaps it would be better to start a new thread instead.
Back
Top