[NA] TicketMaster business model

Van Johnston

Van Johnston

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Van Johnston
Does anyone understand the TicketMaster business model? Is it anything other than “once you come to our website to buy a ticket you’ve effectively put your scrotum in our hand, and we squeeze hard till you pay?”

I got an e-mail announcing a show is coming to town I’d really like to see, and offering pre-sale opportunity with a code. Followed the link to the TM site, and see list price for tickets is $36 to $126. I’m a pilot, so select 2 at $36. Total bill is $110.69, including $9.85 service fee (x2), $3 facility charge (x2), $5.41 order processing fee, and $7.58 sales tax. Over 50% markup in fees. So I decided I didn’t need to go that bad.

Then I thought, well maybe the fees would be more more palatable, percentage wise, if I got the good seats. So I went back in and selected two $126 seats. Now total bill is ... wait for it... $659 ... including $173 service fee (x2), 3.00 facility charge (x2), 5.41 order processing fee, and $49 sales tax. Over 160% markup. Both estimates are for free electronic delivery.

What am I missing? Or should I stop resisting and buy TM stock?
 
Not just ticketmaster. All of the ticket resellers have huge add ons, and you usually can't see them until just before checkout!
 
Yeah, nice work if you can get it, lol. Seriously though, you have to wonder if large venues enjoy having ticketmaster because it ensures most of the tickets get purchased (equals guaranteed revenue). However, I wish venues would just sell their tickets direct, and avoid the ticket broker/scalpers.
 
You’ll pay the Facility Charge at the box office as well - I really hate this airline style bait-and-switch pricing but it is what it is.

However I have no idea why you got to 160% surcharges. I use TicketMaster 5+ times per year and their Service Fee is always 30% for me - at various venues. So if I do the mental math at 50% over published for taxes, facility and service it’s always pretty close.


However, their website does say they share the service fees with their clients and it is based on their individual client agreement so I guess it could vary? But 160% seems high.
 
My wife loves to go to concerts and shows. But for this very reason, it's usually more money than we're willing to spend. We can accept the ticket prices themselves oftentimes, but like you said, adding the fees really gets crazy. So, depending on the artist, group, play, musical, etc, we will on rare occasion go see one, but not very often. It's a shame, too, because she does love seeing different shows.
 
There have been a few shows I wanted to see, but like you, once I saw the real price...pffft, please.

I've been to three concerts in my life. Johnny Cash when I was ten. Leann Rhimes when she was 15 or so. And Sara Evans at the state fair. She was with some dude singing about mud on his tires, but we didn't stay to hear him. (I wanted to, but I had my daughter, who was a huge Sara fan, and it was late.) I'd pay $1,000 for nosebleed tickets to see Sara. Yum.
 
And then you get to the venue, and it's ten bucks to park your car.
 
I've been to a few concerts, might not go again, too much damn $. Hell Oshkosh (AirVenture) is too much $.

Never have I paid to go to any game, and won't.
 
I've only been to a few concerts in my life. One I got a crew pass... managed to resurrect a light control computer that someone had plugged into a 220 line the evening of a Lionel Richie / Sheila E concert. My wife and I got to wander around unrestricted, wherever we wanted to. That was fun. Anyway... I think there have been three since then. The last one was Big Bad VooDoo Daddy, probably over 10 years ago.

Anyway, the one time I used TicketMaster, I felt like I got screwed so badly that it substantially reduced my enjoyment of the concert.
 
Welcome to the new world of tickets. I think it's absolutely shameful that these crooks buy up all of the tickets before they are open to the public, then jack the price up so they make a huge profit for doing nothing. What happened to the good old days where this was considered scalping?
 
I wish everything was like buying stuff in Europe. The price you see is the price you pay.
 
ARFlyer said:
I wish everything was like buying stuff in Europe. The price you see is the price you pay.
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Agreed. The Europeans don't have all the answers, but advertising the final, all-inclusive price for things is one practice I wish were done here. Too many companies use deeply misleading advertised pricing. My local telco, for example... their advertised price for a home phone line is $14.99 per month. What you will actually pay is over $47 per month.

OK sure, in some cases it's not possible -- for example, if you live in a place where the final price will depend on local sales taxes where you live. Most of the time, though, that little variance is a very small part of the screwing you're going to get.
 
The service fee is outrageous. Usurious. It's a percentage of the ticket price (which is BS against their claim that it's the "fee for expenses and technology"). They learned from the airline model.

Ticketmaster is owned by LiveNation - the concert promoter - so.....
 
Ticketmaster has their hooks into the venues as well. You often pay the exact same TM fees at the window as you do online.
 
flyingron said:
Ticketmaster has their hooks into the venues as well. You often pay the exact same TM fees at the window as you do online.
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Yes, they're owned by LiveNation - which is not only a concert promoter but also a venue owner/manager. Even some of the ones that are not owned/managed by LiveNation use TicketMaster because they are one of the few games in town for selling tickets.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
And then you get to the venue, and it's ten bucks to park your car.
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Someone revived this post from 1945 or something. No $10 parking options. Lady Gaga was in town and I wanted to go but the fees put the tickets at crazy amounts and parking ads were asking for $100!!! Some dodgy ones were $50+. But it’s nuts. I just listened to it outside since the venue was open so you could hear everything anyway.
 
Just advertise the price including all fees, this is how it is shopping in Europe. Why the surprise bill when you shop in America?? Taxes fees are not our problems, that is the business owners problem.
 
Arjuhasek said:
I understand where you're coming from with the frustration of TicketMaster's business model, but there's actually a bit more to it than just squeezing you for every penny.
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Explain, oh intriguing newbie.
 
murphey said:
Explain, oh intriguing newbie.
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Well there's kidney harvesting and (compulsory) blood donations for two... Then they take your contact information and sell it to the highest bidder (first). Eventually they sell it again etc...
 
mandm said:
Just advertise the price including all fees, this is how it is shopping in Europe. Why the surprise bill when you shop in America?? Taxes fees are not our problems, that is the business owners problem.
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Because at least we can see what all of the charges are for. As opposed to Europe where it's all "included the price" and they can keep stuffing it with all of the fees/taxes they want.
 
I think the only time I've ever used Ticketmaster was to buy NASCAR tickets at Infineon a few times but I don't think I had another choice. I haven't used Ticketmaster since and my scrotum feels much better.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Because at least we can see what all of the charges are for. As opposed to Europe where it's all "included the price" and they can keep stuffing it with all of the fees/taxes they want.
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Yes, because seeing the itemized Service Fee, Processing Charge, and Convenience Fee is so meaningful to me
 
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Baked Potato said:
Yes, because seeing the itemized Service Fee, Processing Charge, and Convenience Fee is so meaningful to me
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Hey, if you didn't see that, you'd just assume a $25 ticket should cost $1XX. At least this way, you know that Ticketmaster is screwing you over. Or that vacation rental has three management fees and would probably be cheaper through a different site, etc. Being able to see fees is actually a good thing when you're trying to be frugal and every dollar counts.
 
SkyChaser said:
Hey, if you didn't see that, you'd just assume a $25 ticket should cost $1XX. At least this way, you know that Ticketmaster is screwing you over. Or that vacation rental has three management fees and would probably be cheaper through a different site, etc. Being able to see fees is actually a good thing when you're trying to be frugal and every dollar counts.
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Sure, on things like rentals where you can comparison shop. But the thing about Ticketmaster is that you can't do that due to their monopoly over the venues and artists. (Unless you wait for the secondary market and pay an even higher price)
 
Baked Potato said:
Sure, on things like rentals where you can comparison shop. But the thing about Ticketmaster is that you can't do that due to their monopoly over the venues and artists. (Unless you wait for the secondary market and pay an even higher price)
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Once your customer is excited about your product, and has invested time and emotion in obtaining it, they are more likely to pay more. It's the classic car dealership scam too. Don't say anything about that fee until they spend 5 hours fighting with you and you are committed to buying anyway.
 
Baked Potato said:
Yes, because seeing the itemized Service Fee, Processing Charge, and Convenience Fee is so meaningful to me
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It's meaningful to me. I may not be willing to buy a ticket if I think TM is raping me on pricing. I'll forgo the concert altogether. It was a piece of information that helped me make a decision. I may seek out the secondary market or try a scalper to get it cheaper. I may decide to see the event in a different location that has lower fees (I may go to OKC, DFW, KC, etc). If enough people balk at TicketMaster price gouging and fees by not attending events, they will be forced to adapt or artists may decide to use alternate venues/ticketing administration.
 
SoonerAviator said:
It's meaningful to me. I may not be willing to buy a ticket if I think TM is raping me on pricing. I'll forgo the concert altogether. It was a piece of information that helped me make a decision. I may seek out the secondary market or try a scalper to get it cheaper. I may decide to see the event in a different location that has lower fees (I may go to OKC, DFW, KC, etc). If enough people balk at TicketMaster price gouging and fees by not attending events, they will be forced to adapt or artists may decide to use alternate venues/ticketing administration.
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What information are you obtaining by knowing that you're paying $80 + $20 Service Fee + $10 Processing Charge, vs just paying a flat $110 for a ticket?
 
Baked Potato said:
What information are you obtaining by knowing that you're paying $80 + $20 Service Fee + $10 Processing Charge, vs just paying a flat $110 for a ticket?
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That the artist is charging $80 (or some amount less than that depending on venue markup) and that TicketMaster is getting a $30 cut for doing nothing more than serving as an electronic exchange medium. Lots of websites exist under that sort of business model (eBay, Gunbroker, etc.) but don't get an almost 30% cut of the sale.
 
SoonerAviator said:
That the artist is charging $80 (or some amount less than that depending on venue markup) and that TicketMaster is getting a $30 cut for doing nothing more than serving as an electronic exchange medium. Lots of websites exist under that sort of business model (eBay, Gunbroker, etc.) but don't get an almost 30% cut of the sale.
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Ok, noted.
Are the fees significantly different between different venues for the same artist/tour? (Honest question)
My impression is that we're paying about 30% now regardless, which is an ever-increasing number, and we have no choice due to their lack of competitors. So we either pay it, or don't go. And people are clearly paying it.
 
Baked Potato said:
Ok, noted.
Are the fees significantly different between different venues for the same artist/tour? (Honest question)
My impression is that we're paying about 30% now regardless, which is an ever-increasing number, and we have no choice due to their lack of competitors. So we either pay it, or don't go. And people are clearly paying it.
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Sometimes a smaller venue may not be able to command the same price as a larger venue, so ticket prices or venue markup is less. Since ticketmaster seems to charge a percentage of ticket price for their fee structure, your overall ticket price could be lower at a different venue. However, sometimes it's a moot point if alternate venues are too far away. In my case, they may not be coming to Tulsa at all, but hitting Dallas or KC (which are equidistant from Tulsa) so my decision may be swayed from one location to another based on the total ticket cost.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Sometimes a smaller venue may not be able to command the same price as a larger venue, so ticket prices or venue markup is less. Since ticketmaster seems to charge a percentage of ticket price for their fee structure, your overall ticket price could be lower at a different venue. However, sometimes it's a moot point if alternate venues are too far away. In my case, they may not be coming to Tulsa at all, but hitting Dallas or KC (which are equidistant from Tulsa) so my decision may be swayed from one location to another based on the total ticket cost.
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So, wouldn't that mean that a total price given to you upfront would be helpful? And not the practice of fees added on after you've added them to your basket?

This seems similar to another active thread where the dude is complaining about car dealerships adding fees at the end of the transaction. But at least in that case there are likely completely unrelated businesses that offer similar products within close proximity. And you can walk out and renegotiate, vs many tours where you're under pressure to purchase because they'll sell out. And negotiating with Ticketmaster is not possible.
 
Baked Potato said:
So, wouldn't that mean that a total price given to you upfront would be helpful? And not the practice of fees added on after you've added them to your basket?

This seems similar to another active thread where the dude is complaining about car dealerships adding fees at the end of the transaction. But at least in that case there are likely completely unrelated businesses that offer similar products within close proximity. And you can walk out and renegotiate, vs many tours where you're under pressure to purchase because they'll sell out. And negotiating with Ticketmaster is not possible.
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If both venues were using Ticketmaster, then sure the total price would be all you were using to look at to make your decision. The other (just as important reason) to hate ticket master is their practice of allowing giant swaths of tickets to be bought up by scalpers/3rd party ticket websites and resold for even higher prices. It can almost be impossible to beat the algorithms and bots at buying a decent ticket even when logging in at the same time. I really wish venues would just sell their own tickets and cut out the middle man altogether. Artist still gets their cut, but the profit to TM to provide such little value is ridiculous.
 
I hate when companies don't advertise the full price up front but to be honest, if you saw the tickets were $55 instead of $36 would you still have decided not to go or are you only upset that the fees weren't disclosed up front and aren't going because of that? Not sure what type of show it was but there isn't much you can go see today for less than $55
 
SoonerAviator said:
… The other (just as important reason) to hate ticket master is their practice of allowing giant swaths of tickets to be bought up by scalpers/3rd party ticket websites and resold for even higher prices...
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Reason #1 why I support local venues and events that don’t sell thru Ticketmaster.
 
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kmacht said:
I hate when companies don't advertise the full price up front but to be honest, if you saw the tickets were $55 instead of $36 would you still have decided not to go …
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For me, price isn’t the issue. It’s the fact TM directly enables the secondary market by allowing robotic transactions with virtually no purchase limits in place. The secondary market resells to cover the purchase cost, G&A expenses and make a profit.

Any venue that willingly chooses to partner with a business I find unethical isn’t one I willingly choose to support.
 
I haven't had access to their site in over a month. They blocked my IP Address claiming that I'm a Bot. I don't have a static IP Address and they don't seem to understand why this matters. So they lost a customer.
 
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