[NA]Teenagers[NA]

Nope, you just sort of have to live through it. Mine are now 32 and 29. Grandchild #1 due in March.
 
Henning said:
Never had much problem with them.
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He's not talking about dating!!:rofl::rofl:

Our baby is 19, he'll be 20 in June, we've survived 3 will only a few minor incidents! :D They will do dumb things, hopefully they are just dumb and not deadly! These years have passed pretty quickly. :(
 
Even substitute teaching I didn't have much trouble. Once you make them question their reality, they get pretty interested.
 
My two were little darlins'.

Not going to defend it, but what worked for me was a strong respect for the parent and lots, and lots of time. Teens will prolly whine no matter what you do, so they might as well whine about something as a family.

throw the video games in the trash and put severe limits on text and phone priv. Try to eat dinner together every night, sans phones. No - I'm not kidding.
 
The instruction manual for teenagers is on the same shelf as the one for understanding women.
 
Certainly there must be a chemical or neuro-electrical aberration north of the neck?
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Certainly there must be a chemical or neuro-electrical aberration north of the neck?
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Not aberration, it is not yet fully formed. That is your job as a parent is to guide the formation of their thought process. You need to teach them how to think, how to figure out that the decision they just made is a poor or proper one and why. That is what is forming during those years, full cognition.

I subbed for an Algebra I class once, all juniors and seniors, not the academic front runners in their class. Of course as sub you get some heckling and the inevitable "What do I need to know this for? I'll never use it in life." Was tossed out, and I answered with what it took me a long time to figure out, "You will use what you learn here every day for the rest of your life. What Algebra is here to teach you is a system of logic so you can determine your decisions are correct. The numbers don't matter except to prove that the logic works. Every time you stop to think 'what do I do next?' you will hopefully use the principles that Algebra teaches you."

Pass on the joy of thought, of learning and experiencing new things. That is the best thing to do with a teenager. Pass on the joy of doing good things as well, that is the most important thing to learn in life.
 
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Henning said:
Not aberration, it is not yet fully formed. That is your job as a parent...*snip*
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You would've been laughed out of the classroom if you were talking to the people I was in algebra I and II with.

docmirror said:
My two were little darlins'.

Not going to defend it, but what worked for me was a strong respect for the parent and lots, and lots of time. Teens will prolly whine no matter what you do, so they might as well whine about something as a family.

throw the video games in the trash and put severe limits on text and phone priv. Try to eat dinner together every night, sans phones. No - I'm not kidding.
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I still have a good respect for my parents. When I was 10 or so we had an N64 and I wanted to play it often - I had to do chores and other things to be able to do so though, and it was for a limited time. At the time I hated it, but I still got the tasks done (chores were not hopeless or incredibly time intensive) and I got to play which I at least conceded was fair.

Then I got a phone around the beginning of high school and 500 texts total a month. Which was awful, I felt it was unfair and destroying my social life because the friends I had were 50 miles away and I had no car to visit them. Eventually I was allowed 1000, 1500, then 5000 as I showed my dad exactly what it meant to me. Even giving a little made me feel respected. We didn't have dinner together as much because dad worked late and we usually wanted to eat at different times (parents eat dinner at like 3 or 4 now, I am more 6-8pm). That became a stress point because the parents wanted us to eat together but I wasn't exactly hungry or I'd eat a snack later (which gave the illusion that I was a bottomless pit) which was another point of contention.

I don't mind the idea of having games held over my head if the tasks are at least feasible. Clean the whole house every day top to bottom? Not exactly. Take out the trash and do the dishes, and tidy up the room? Sure!

I think the key to staying on good terms and still maintaining your position is to expect and require them to do things, but keep it on a schedule and let them know fully what you expect and when you will expect it. I used to play in a couple tournaments in my downtime on the weekends in AC6 (video game) and right as the match started my dad told me to take out the trash. I told him I had just started something pretty important and I'd be letting a bunch of peo-- and then he unplugged the internet on me.

After I explained my situation and said I'd do it either before or after but at least give me enough time to do this, I felt good about it. I got some respect (although minor because I still had to do the task before or after) and my dad got the trash taken out. Win-win situation.

Kind of like "give a man a tiny wooden medal and he'll fight to the death for you". There's an actual quote out there somewhere but I'm paraphrasing. Make him think he's won something although minor and he'll be happier to do what you ask him to do, I guess. Although there are teens who are definitely not like me so take it with a cup of salt.
 
Nope, they didn't laugh, they thought about it. Actually it had an interesting result. A month or so later I was subbing a history class and the math teacher I subbed for walked up and asked "What did you say to those kids?" "Uhhh, not much, why?" "They pay attention now."

If you were in Alg I & II with the class brain trust, you may have laughed at the simplicity, but the reality is, you would have missed out for doing so. Regardless, not everyone learns the same way, some people need to be lead down a different path of understanding.
 
Henning said:
Nope, they didn't laugh, they thought about it. Actually it had an interesting result. A month or so later I was subbing a history class and the math teacher I subbed for walked up and asked "What did you say to those kids?" "Uhhh, not much, why?" "They pay attention now."

If you were in Alg I & II with the class brain trust, you may have laughed at the simplicity, but the reality is, you would have missed out for doing so. Regardless, not everyone learns the same way, some people need to be lead down a different path of understanding.
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I ended up being the only guy in my class to graduate with honors. The vast, vast majority of the people in my high school class were not thinkers or philosophers. They were irresponsible and didn't care one way or another what most teachers had to say. Didn't complete homework, didn't volunteer any answers, talked for most classes between themselves despite repeat warnings. I dunno, they made more than one substitute quit her job in a traditional game known as "sink the sub". The people I went to school with had no interest in philosophies and in my opinion wouldn't have cared what any teacher or sub said. Not much respect to go around at all.

The algebra teacher got those remarks as well, and the history teacher, and the geometry teacher, and even physics and stats teachers. When are we going to use this? And each would try to push across in the best way possible that it's not the numbers or equations you are trying to memorize and use from now on, it's the critical thinking and analysis of problems and basically no one took them seriously. Physics was jammed full of people who did not belong there because the academic advisor was being pushed to fill classes and over half dropped. AP physics had something like 20 students when we started the class and dropped to 5 after the first month or so. Only two of us passed the AP exam of that.
 
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You can't teach anyone anything, you can only help them to learn; inspire them, give them something to think about. That comes across more in attitude and presence than anything else. I used to get court appointed kids on sailing programs, never had real problems there either. The key is to be able to meet the challenges they present, and present them with a further challenge.
 
Had two the boy was much easier than the girl. Girls try to play you against the wife,till they get older,then you have two women to deal with.
 
If you think you've mastered the parenting thing with your own teenagers, take on a foreign exchange student. That'll keep you on your toes.
 
I'd always try to go through my mother if I wanted something. If I tried with my dad he would shoot it down and then punish me with chores for trying.

Mom's Word: I have some wiggle room
Dad's Word: FINAL in every respect

What's funny is since finishing college my parents roles have flipped. Dad is now doing the "when is he coming home next?" routine.
 
No offense to teenagers.
And I know I was difficult too.

The current issue I am experiencing goes something like this:

youthful person in question: "X is a fact." (said arrogantly and almost angrily, without substantiation)
me: "well, that is interesting - hey where did you get that info? You could be right. Oh, btw, here are 126 reliable and widely recognized sources that disagree with X; I wonder why there seems to be a apparent disagreement here?"
ypiq: "well, I'm right!"
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
No offense to teenagers.
And I know I was difficult too.

The current issue I am experiencing goes something like this:

youthful person in question: "X is a fact." (said arrogantly and almost angrily, without substantiation)
me: "well, that is interesting - hey where did you get that info? You could be right. Oh, btw, here are 126 reliable and widely recognized sources that disagree with X; I wonder why there seems to be a apparent disagreement here?"
ypiq: "well, I'm right!"
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Interesting. Sounds like another person in my family. Trying to reason with her or point out the facts doesn't even seem to matter. What's the fact that's "100%" true?
 
Those who know him should ask my buddy China about this. His teenage kid talks to him, always has.
 
What's the fact that's "100%" true?
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That's a huge part of our problem. How we view, and present 'facts' to others.

In my experience, time has shown that much of our knowledge changes; previously unassailable truths have been discarded, as new info arises.
I am well aware of this and rarely if ever, present knowledge as immutable truth. I usually don't see reason to be adamant about most things. All you have to do is be stung a few times ("wow, the experts told us for years it is A, now they are saying it must be B, based on this new info") in order to learn this lesson and thereafter be cautious about your attitude on things.

haha, same goes with my attitude about teens, and this person. Maybe it's me that needs to see this issue differently!

Thanks for your input.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
haha, same goes with my attitude about teens, and this person. Maybe it's me that needs to see this issue differently!

Thanks for your input.
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Don't give in, don't let the teen sway what you know you know. One of my favorite jokes from some late night comedian was: "Boy, I was amazed at how smart may parents got between my 13th and 20th years. At 13 they were really, really dumb, but by 20, they just seemed to be brilliant!"
 
I do not want appear to play the "I'm older so I know better" card, as it is often wrong.

However I would love to let them know, "I have been a teenager. You have never been old".

Perhaps then they would be more open-minded to the possibility of their own infallibility.

It is so paradoxical and....there is a certain irony to it!

How do you get someone to be more open-minded about all ideas, when their very problem stifles any chance of them listening to this suggestion?!

Why do so many young people think old people are all screwed up....when (in my experience) so many of their mindsets are much more closed, biased, and discriminatory than many old people?!
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
I do not want appear to play the "I'm older so I know better" card, as it is often wrong.

However I would love to let them know, "I have been a teenager. You have never been old".

Perhaps then they would be more open-minded to the possibility of their own infallibility.

It is so paradoxical and....there is a certain irony to it!

How do you get someone to be more open-minded about all ideas, when their very problem stifles any chance of them listening to this suggestion?!

Why do so many young people think old people are all screwed up....when (in my experience) so many of their mindsets are much more closed, biased, and discriminatory than many old people?!
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They've spent their entire lives being told what to do. They are in the transition to a time when they will have substantial choice in what they do. They want that recognized but lack the tools to understand the want, express it, or work with someone to develop their ability to make choices.

I certainly don't have answers on how to work with teenagers in general and everyone is different. Enforcing mutual respect goes a long ways but many parents lack the ability to provide the level of respect required. I never once heard "Okay, let's do it your way and see how it works out" from my parents. It would have gone a long way toward building a bridge.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
I do not want appear to play the "I'm older so I know better" card, as it is often wrong.

However I would love to let them know, "I have been a teenager. You have never been old".

Perhaps then they would be more open-minded to the possibility of their own infallibility.

It is so paradoxical and....there is a certain irony to it!

How do you get someone to be more open-minded about all ideas, when their very problem stifles any chance of them listening to this suggestion?!

Why do so many young people think old people are all screwed up....when (in my experience) so many of their mindsets are much more closed, biased, and discriminatory than many old people?!
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The "I know more than you because I'm older" card really got on my nerves. I did, in some circumstances, actually know more about certain topics than my parents, but they really hated to hear it and I'd usually regret bringing it up. After a while though, I realized that it was because they had done it before and it wasn't as much as an aggressive statement as it was a caution. That aside, I felt (and still feel) like I had to learn it myself because if I didn't do it, I couldn't trust the "evidence" I was being provided with.

One day I got it though. I remember thinking "I want to figure this out myself, so I can tell my kids--" and realized that was exactly what my dad was trying to do. He didn't end up being very gentle or convincing about it sometimes, but I get that now and I appreciate the effort. If it's any consolation. (23 years old btw)

Let them figure it out themselves might be an option in this case depending on what it is they are trying to say is right. I can imagine it'd be difficult letting your kid walk into a situation where they'd be burned but fire is a great motivator and pain makes for some lessons that stick :D

Clark1961 said:
They've spent their entire lives being told what to do. They are in the transition to a time when they will have substantial choice in what they do. They want that recognized but lack the tools to understand the want, express it, or work with someone to develop their ability to make choices.

I certainly don't have answers on how to work with teenagers in general and everyone is different. Enforcing mutual respect goes a long ways but many parents lack the ability to provide the level of respect required. I never once heard "Okay, let's do it your way and see how it works out" from my parents. It would have gone a long way toward building a bridge.
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I remember my dad's reaction when we were trying to put up window covering in the summer for the house. It came in rolls and his plan was to unroll it, hold it on the bed, measure the window, measure the covering, cut it with scissors, then we'd put it in the window. I told him I wanted to try something and he was pretty adamant about his method.

After arguing a bit, I finally told him that if we just took the roll, put it to the window (which were all the same width), cut the whole roll for the width of the window, then just held it in the window and cut the bottom where we needed it, we'd be done a lot faster and more accurately. He had an expression like he was surprised I had come up with a truly better method that he approved of. We did it that way, finished fast, and that was that. And I felt great about it because FINALLY I was able to contribute instead of being told "you are doing this, this way, like this" and never having a chance to show my ideas.

And it became a thing where we'd see the best way to do something and talk about it. He still decided, but at least I could offer and feel important in the process. Was I still wrong sometimes? Hell yes, he had been doing a lot of stuff for years and had an "already tried that" attitude which turned out to be right. The ability to suggest stuff and have it actually considered instead of being shut down instantly each time made it a much more pleasurable experience and brought us together in planning instead of him dragging me along to do something.
 
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docmirror said:
Don't give in, don't let the teen sway what you know you know. One of my favorite jokes from some late night comedian was: "Boy, I was amazed at how smart may parents got between my 13th and 20th years. At 13 they were really, really dumb, but by 20, they just seemed to be brilliant!"
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You've got that backwards. Parents start getting dumber starting when the kid reaches 13, and by the time the kid is 18, the parents know nothing. Fortunately, parents start to regain their intelligence though the kid's early 20s as he or she starts to learn about the real world.
 
kkoran said:
You've got that backwards. Parents start getting dumber starting when the kid reaches 13, and by the time the kid is 18, the parents know nothing. Fortunately, parents start to regain their intelligence though the kid's early 20s as he or she starts to learn about the real world.
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3 stages of man:
1) my daddy can whip your daddy
2) dad you don't know anything
3) my father used to say...
 
We've been thru it five times and each one was totally different.

I'd recommend everyone withhold judgement until all child bearing, raising, and launching is over, then decide how you did.
 
Florida Cracker said:
We've been thru it five times and each one was totally different.

I'd recommend everyone withhold judgement until all child bearing, raising, and launching is over, then decide how you did.
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This..... ^^^^^^

To the OP, lots of patience, tell them what you know is right, then, as long as it's nothing that is life changing or dangerous, let them fail. Don't second guess yourself, or give in to appease them, you are the parent not their buddy. Sometimes they are really not going to like you but in the end they know right from wrong. Sooner or later (when they are older) they will thank you. My oldest is 24 now, gainfully employed and no longer requires my financial support, a successful launch.

Two more in college and doing well, it's pretty much all you can ask. You'll be fine.

BTW, the confidence of your child to stand his/her ground is great, even if he/she is wrong, they'll figure it out.

Oh, and even when they are vehemently disagreeing with you, stuff sinks in, rebellion is part of growing up.
 
My dad always laid out the options. He knew I was as headstrong as he raised me to be. The options were always significantly slanted toward what he thought was best but he still gave options.

Case in point. College is paid for until you don't get a good grade. I also don't think you'll like your choice of major.

Went for two semesters the first time, he was right, didn't want to do music for a living, let a grade slip and realized next semester was on me. Got in the van and headed for a job with room and board in Chicago. Learned a ton, wouldn't trade it for anything.

Came back home and went to college again on my own dime. Didn't finish but that's documented in other threads about how circumstance led to my current career. Never asked dad for a penny again. Never even brought it up.

Looking back over his finances after he passed, was interesting. He kept records and never destroyed any of them, his oddity. I was able to see that he had actually set aside the money in case I asked again. But he respected that I didn't.

The deal was the deal, and he stuck to it while quietly planning not to be a jerk if I'd have come begging for a re-do.

Miss the old guy. Quite a bit. He was always true to his word. Served him very well in three decades of working in Sales.
 
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flyingron said:
Nope, you just sort of have to live through it. Mine are now 32 and 29. Grandchild #1 due in March.
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Grandchildren are your reward for not strangling your kids when they were teenagers. Went from 0 to 5 in less than a week this past May. FUN!!!
 
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