[NA]Security Cameras[NA]

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Dave Taylor
I read past threads here on this, just want to ensure the info is still the most up-to-date.

The currently best specs include (add to or correct below), or the features I need are:

1080pixels
infrared for night (is there a spec to look for on this?)
indoor/outdoor
2 weeks onsite storage
ability to access video from iphone or laptop when away
iphone notifications of motion sensing
cameras that 'move with the motion'
10+ camera system
POE
I want a standalone system, not one that depends on my server or other hardware (except the modem for remote access).
One with a flash, to deter nefariants, would be a good addition.

Past threads discussed poor performance or bandwidth-hogging by wireless; presumable that has not changed, and wired is best.

What else should I look for?
If you want to recommend a system or brand, cool.
 
I can't comment on many of your items. All mine are wired since if I have to run power, it's just as easy to run power over Ethernet. The newest one has an on-board microSD card but the recordings go to my existing file server with the card as a backup if the file server goes away. Personally mine false often enough I wouldn't want a notification, I've been tuning them, but with small mammals flying by in the 60 MPH winds we get they still trigger fairly often. The newest one is an Amcrest which seems to be the most sane so far, the PC web view is still useless, but the stored files are normal MP4s which makes reviewing them without a custom app much nicer.
 
Also wondering if the alerts can be turned off, on a schedule.
Ie, not there from 7pm-7am that's when I want alerts.
 
Depending on your camera to DVR distance you may run into drop outs / reliability issues. I have some camera runs in the neighborhood of 200 feet. Those cameras would show gray screen dropouts. They were originally wired with the DVR cables such as Link: http://a.co/d/g0uIDE4
I rewired them with a better power supply: Link: http://a.co/d/cHSyVnT
better cable: high quality RG6 cable
better power wires: 250-ft 18-AWG 8-Conductor Thermostat Wire (By-the-Roll) https://www.lowes.com/pd/250-ft-18-AWG-8-Conductor-Thermostat-Wire-By-the-Roll/50111498

Since making the changes the cameras have been rock solid.
 
Do you mean that the system you bought came provided with an inadequate cable and power supply? Or that it was designed for a distance shorter than what you used it for?
You are not talking about wireless, right?
Also, how did you terminate the cables, did you have to crimp on connectors?

Depending on your camera to DVR distance you may run into drop outs / reliability issues. I have some camera runs in the neighborhood of 200 feet. Those cameras would show gray screen dropouts. They were originally wired with the DVR cables such as Link: http://a.co/d/g0uIDE4
I rewired them with a better power supply: Link: http://a.co/d/cHSyVnT
better cable: high quality RG6 cable
better power wires: 250-ft 18-AWG 8-Conductor Thermostat Wire (By-the-Roll) https://www.lowes.com/pd/250-ft-18-AWG-8-Conductor-Thermostat-Wire-By-the-Roll/50111498

Since making the changes the cameras have been rock solid.
 
Do you mean that the system you bought came provided with an inadequate cable and power supply? Or that it was designed for a distance shorter than what you used it for?
You are not talking about wireless, right?
Also, how did you terminate the cables, did you have to crimp on connectors?
The system I bought is an older system: Link: http://a.co/d/1ks5IMn
I have had it a number of years now but it wasn't an inexpensive system. It came with q-see siamese cables. Those cables were inadequate in my experience. Both the power line and the RG59 were unreliable and not worth buying or installing only to have to remove and replace later. RG59 is weaker than RG6 for cameras. The power supplies were small weak unreliable boxes which may be seen in one of the pics in the link above. Not worth using; just buy a system without them and purchase quality from the get go - you will be happier for it. Assuming you plan to use this type of camera and not ethernet cameras...

Q-see makes and sells a 200 ft siamese dvr cable: Link: http://a.co/d/8cecH4T
My experience with that exact cable is that it proved unreliable. They say it is capable of 200 feet but my experience is that if you want to go past 50 feet you need better quality power supplies and cable.

No, I am not talking about wireless.

Yes, I did use crimp on connectors. Compression connectors for the RG6.

Also, for a few years I could access it remotely but something changed and I have since lost that capability. I think it was a security upgrade with windows that rendered the remote access method obsolete. I am still very happy with the system though and with the storage of the system I can go months before looping over a previous recording.
 
Have you seen the Wyze cam? Meets all of your needs except POE. $40 each! (Plus the cost of a micro SD card of your choosing).
I stuck mine in a window to see the front of the house.

e95723009db72ff4e402acf57e35410a.jpg
 
I have Vimtag inside the house, great for pan and zoom (we have cats that when we travel like to check on them) and Blink on all POE.

All have night vision, Blink offers free cloud storage
 
I am MOSTLY happy with my ring cameras. Have a doorbell on the front door, and a spotlight cam in the back yard. Both are completely wireless (doorbell cam is wired to the bell circuit, and has a battery, spotlight has a solar panel and 2 batteries). Both have night vision capabilities as well. Mostly happy because I cannot live stream them to a NVR or grab a live view from them without either their app, website, or the integration to my amazon echo show. Other than that, I will buy more for the sides of the house, and the driveway.

View from the spotlight camera in the backyard. (don't mind the pool, it's being resurfaced after the pebbletec failed, leaving a razor sharp crack)
upload_2018-12-26_8-32-17.png
 
A couple of notes on infrared...

Infrared will not go through glass. Infrared also destroys the ability to see color.

There are camera systems now that see so well in the dark, infrared is no longer needed (and the color at night is very good, btw).
 
A couple of notes on infrared...

Infrared will not go through glass. Infrared also destroys the ability to see color.

There are camera systems now that see so well in the dark, infrared is no longer needed (and the color at night is very good, btw).


Any specific recommendations? I need the night capability.
 
Mine are old school. Hard wired to a DVR. I can view any or all cams through an IC Realtime app. No monthly storage subscription. I need to put a 6 camera system in the new house and hangar. I expect I'll go hard wired and a DVR again. My one attempt with wireless cams wasn't good. Wifi signal through the exterior walls wasn't good enough. And they still needed to be wired to power. May as well wire them to a DVR and know they'll work.

My house cams have IR illumination for night. I can see into the windows with no problem. Night vision is more distorted by dust and spiderwebs than day vision. Gotta keep the lenses fairly clean for night use.
 
I think Arlo will meet your needs, but it's wireless. There's a variety of cameras now, and you can schedule actions and alerts.
 
I've just installed several Wyze cams and so far, I don't think you can beat them for the price. I've put 128GB cards in them which should give at least weeks of clips storage. Night vision works ok in a room or outside if you have some kind of other light source. Shooting outside with no other lights, the infrared on any IP camera isn't going to give a usable image for anything that's more than 10' or so from the camera.
 
Shooting outside with no other lights, the infrared on any IP camera isn't going to give a usable image for anything that's more than 10' or so from the camera.

For this reason I am contemplating installing some motion activated lights near some of the cameras.
More work but if it helps get a usable image it will be worth it.
I suppose I would have to ensure the light comes on after the perp is in the field of view.
And have lights that are somehow protected from being disabled.
 
I have a buttload of wyze cams.
Super cheap and the most expensive one ($37) physically rotates on a 360 degree axis.
It will track motion as well.

For the price, you can't really go wrong.
 
I am thinking of hosting all videos/images on a dedicated in-house computer.

I am reading that you need to purchase a plan in order to remotely access your cameras.
T or F?

Also, is the above true for looking at past images ie from 20 minutes ago?

oh, wait, Stewart did post one solution ICRealtime.
Any others?
 
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I am thinking of hosting all videos/images on a dedicated in-house computer.

I am reading that you need to purchase a plan in order to remotely access your cameras.
T or F?

Also, is the above true for looking at past images ie from 20 minutes ago?

oh, wait, Stewart did post one solution ICRealtime.
Any others?
T or F depending. With Arlo you get 7 days of remote recording free. More than that requires a subscription. Most others, including ring, require a subscription for any recording.
 
Is there no easy way to
cams -> my puter -> internet -> my mobile device?

Seems like right now I can, for free, access things like my thermostat remotely.
 
Is there no easy way to
cams -> my puter -> internet -> my mobile device?

Seems like right now I can, for free, access things like my thermostat remotely.

The Wyze cams do that without your computer. Just download the app. All the storage is local to each camera. I like this because I don’t have to maintain a server to store it all. And I don’t have to stream video to the cloud all day long thereby sucking up all the available bandwidth for the house.
 
I am thinking of hosting all videos/images on a dedicated in-house computer.

I am reading that you need to purchase a plan in order to remotely access your cameras.
T or F?

Also, is the above true for looking at past images ie from 20 minutes ago?

oh, wait, Stewart did post one solution ICRealtime.
Any others?

If you have a good Internet connection, you can host the whole setup yourself with zero software or subscription costs. The last one I set up used Motion running on (I think) Debian, although it could have been some other Linux. That was about seven years ago, though, so there may be better options now. Or not.

A quick search for "linux surveillance camera software" will bring up dozens of options, including about half a dozen (Motion still being one of them) that come up repeatedly as top choices. I just glanced at, but didn't completely read the results. It does seem that some are completely free (as in speech and beer), others are commercial but inexpensive, and still others depend on how you're using them.

I have considered doing this off and on for the past few years. If I ever get around to doing it and don't use a ready-made solution, I almost certainly will build it on top of Debian Linux. That's partly because of my familiarity with it, partly because it's free, but mainly because it's just a good platform for this sort of mission. It's efficient, stable, versatile, and has modest hardware requirements of its own (although the resources needed to process video will also have to be considered). It's ideally suited for deployments where you need the server to do one thing very reliably and very well, 24/7, for months at a time, with little attention.

I might also build the DVR on on some other Linux if the surveillance software preferred another flavor; but if the choice were all mine, I'd use Debian for this sort of single-purpose machine.

As for the hardware, in the past I've mainly used old PCs for single-purpose Linux servers of any kind. I often used old laptops to save a little electricity. Nowadays, I'd also look at some of the beefier Raspberry Pi boards. That's also why I'd only almost certainly use Debian. There are special OS builds for Raspberry Pi that might make more sense using that hardware. There may even be a pre-compiled image designed specifically for surveillance cameras. So I'd do some research.

Raspberry Pi can also run many other operating systems, including many Linux flavors, Android, and others, by the way. Most of them seem to be minimal builds to which the user adds only those packages that they need, which is a very good way to go about building a single-purpose machine, especially using resource-limited hardware. But it's more work.

And that's what it all comes down to: How much work you're willing to put put into it. This is one task for which literally all of the software you'll need is available for free, and much of it is essentially identical to that which is pre-installed on commercial surveillance DVRs. So you can do it all for free (except for the hardware), with zero software or ongoing service costs. Or you could pay for a service that limits your labor to plugging the thing in and connecting the components, in return for a monthly fee. It's really up to you.

A few other things to bear in mind:

1. Surveillance puts extreme demands on the storage media. If you use SD cards, you need to go with high-end ones that are designed for that sort of extreme use. Also be prepared for them to fail, which even the best cards will over time.

2. If I built a machine for this purpose, I'd be inclined to at least consider mirrored HDD drives depending on the I/O requirements, both because of the cost difference and because of the limited write cycles of SSD drives. I can pick up half a dozen decent identical HDD drives from Micro Center for the cost of one SSD drive, mirror two of them, and just replace them as they fail. But I'd have to research it before making that decision, as well as consider the total I/O requirements and the power consumption. I'm not prepared to say which option would be "better" at this time.

3. Don't neglect bitrate and compression when considering cameras. To get a decent picture at 1080p, you'll need a minimum bitrate of 5Mbps using H.264 (which is most common on lower-priced cameras), or 2.5 Mbps if using H.265 (usually used only in higher-end cameras because of the licensing fees). Those are minimums. If you want to be able to read the license plate of the car the thief used or the tattoos on his arms, double those bitrates (at least).

4. Also remember that the total combined bitrate of all the cameras affects the DVR's resource needs in terms of processor power, RAM, and I/O.

5. You really don't want to be broadcasting all that video over the Interwebs all the time. ISPs frown on that. Most surveillance camera software either "pushes" an alert to the mobile device or an email address when motion is detected above whatever threshold you set, or only starts the Web stream when requested by a client browser or app.

6. Remember that motion is motion. Trees swaying in the wind, deer, the mailman, and so forth are motion. Most surveillance camera software allows you to set a total motion threshold as well as completely ignore parts of every camera's raster (such as trees) to avoid false triggers.

7. Different cameras and software detect motion differently. If you're thinking about cameras with, for example, PIR motion detection, make sure it's configured in a way that the DVR software can use it to its best advantage.

If the camera doesn't do its own motion detection at all, then the software has to do it. Usually it does this by simply looking at the total number of pixel changes, but there are some more advanced methods that look at the whole raster. I've never found them to be any better in practical terms. But maybe that's changed.

8. You may need either a static IP or a dynamic DNS service if you're not using a paid monitoring service. Or not. Some software sends a link with the current IP with the alert mail. I suppose software that pushes to a mobile app does the same, but invisibly.

9. Your ISP may block the ports commonly used for remote monitoring. All of the software I know of allows you to change the default port to some other unassigned port.

10. You'll have to have a vague grasp of IP addresses, ports, and port forwarding to configure your router to accept the connection.

Rich
 
Is there no easy way to
cams -> my puter -> internet -> my mobile device?

Seems like right now I can, for free, access things like my thermostat remotely.
Define easy. Easy as in free? Or easy as in well, actually easy? Or both?

As mentioned, the Wyze cams don't need any subscription. Buy them once, add a memory card if you're so inclined and possibly an exterior housing and you're done spending money on them. Their default setup out of the box could not be easier.

If you really want to access them from your computer and/or host all the video locally, you can do that with them as well. Buy yourself a NAS drive with security cam software, use an SD card to flash the firmware in the Wyze cams and Bob's your uncle. A quick search of youtube walks you through the whole process.
 
Define easy. Easy as in free? Or easy as in well, actually easy? Or both?

As mentioned, the Wyze cams don't need any subscription. Buy them once, add a memory card if you're so inclined and possibly an exterior housing and you're done spending money on them. Their default setup out of the box could not be easier.

If you really want to access them from your computer and/or host all the video locally, you can do that with them as well. Buy yourself a NAS drive with security cam software, use an SD card to flash the firmware in the Wyze cams and Bob's your uncle. A quick search of youtube walks you through the whole process.


Synology does just that. Comes with 1 free camera license, and you can purchase others and use the NAS as a NVR
 
I am thinking of hosting all videos/images on a dedicated in-house computer.

I am reading that you need to purchase a plan in order to remotely access your cameras.
T or F?

Also, is the above true for looking at past images ie from 20 minutes ago?

oh, wait, Stewart did post one solution ICRealtime.
Any others?
@RJM62 has some good thoughts.

These days, I'd buy IP (full digital) cameras and run Cat 5 cable to them. Use a switch that provides PoE (Power over Ethernet) to power them. One cable, much easier.

I'd probably buy a CCTV DVR unit, though the Linux solution can work well, a pre-made box is easier and tends to require less maintenance.

Get one that has the capability to email alerts to you (though that can sometimes generate false alerts - spiders getting into the trigger area can set them into alert mode).

If you're not sending the data off-site, make sure the box is locked up where it can't be easily stolen - nothing worse than recording a break-in or event you want recorded only to find that the perp has stolen the video recorder so you have no record of it... :O .

Finally, infrared cameras can attract bugs (spiders) who build webs over the lens. Better to use infrared cameras with remote/separate IR light fixtures. THey'll illuminate better too.

Remote access isn't hard as long as your internet provider isn't blocking ports. Static IP is preferred (usually obtainable with business internet service), Dynamic IP can work but you'll have to use a DDNS provider (usually for $).
 
POE is going to be the tricky one for now. I have a 20-camera POE system driven by Ubiquity Unify POE switches. Everything is captured and stored on 2x Blue Iris PC's with 16 TB RAID drives each and backed up to Amazon.

You do limit yourself when you go POE cameras - most noticeably PTZ, but there are obviously advantages to installation. I expect things will change once 4PPOE becomes mainstream but most camera manufacturers struggle to make their existing stuff work on POE and even POE+.

The POE cameras I use are:
* Hikvision EXIR Turret - these are a dream. They can "see" in the dark without infrared. They'll give me a color 10 fps image that looks like daylight in corners of my property that's so dark I'll walk into a tree at night. But unfortunately they are stationary. I wish all my cams could be Hikvision but I need PTZ in certain places.
* Reolink RLC-423. Not as good an image as the Hickvision but gives you real PTZ over POE+. Very good infrared with no dome. (Domes are very bad when combined with IR and rain). For PTZ these are the best. Massive though, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. I never get packages stolen.
* Amcrest ProHD - PTZ, but indoor only. Nice cam, good quality. Do not EVER buy Amcrest WiFi cams, but POE works well.
* LEFTEK Dome. Indoor as well. It's a joke of a camera.
* Ubiquiti UVC-G3-MICRO. Umm. POE for power only. Really a WiFi camera. Very specialized niche that I need in 1 place.
* DoorBird POE Video Doorbell. Only the camera is POE, you still need more wires for the actual "bell" part of the doorbell. Kind'a defeats the purpose.


Having said this - a large POE system is not for the faint of heart. Especially if your cameras are installed in unreachable places. I have managed to set them up in such a way that I can change any network configuration without ever needing to touch the cameras. However, I'm a network engineer. I would definitely not install a system like this for any family members or friends. Maybe 5 years from now when everything is 802.3bt the technology will be mature enough to be plug and play. It's not right now.
 
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This one has POC - power over coax, apparently!
I like some things about it but what about that cabling?
Harder to fabricate my own with that system (some of my runs are 100', their cables are only 60')
Plus the usual negative reviews.
 
This one has POC - power over coax, apparently!
I like some things about it but what about that cabling?
Harder to fabricate my own with that system (some of my runs are 100', their cables are only 60')
Plus the usual negative reviews.
Not sure about the power source - if it is "POC" or takes siamese cables like my system. Unfortunately, they don't offer a pic of the cable connections. It is an analog HD type system similar to mine. In any case, if I were installing today I would likely choose an IP camera system like some have recommended in this thread. IP seems to be the technology of the future, looks like is less prone to dropouts like I experienced, and an upgrade down the road would be easier without having to run new cables like I would have to do if I upgraded to IP.. .
 
The Wyze cams do that without your computer. Just download the app. All the storage is local to each camera. I like this because I don’t have to maintain a server to store it all. And I don’t have to stream video to the cloud all day long thereby sucking up all the available bandwidth for the house.

Ya but if I break into your house and take the cameras you would have no video of the event right?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Ya but if I break into your house and take the cameras you would have no video of the event right?
Wrong. They do motion detection and triggered events are stored in the cloud on their server for 14 days. Cloud events are 12 second long which is shorter than motion clips that are saved to the internal memory card (1 minute). Actually I believe the clips are 20 seconds of video that is sped up so it plays back in 12 seconds. So if the perp brought a ladder and took the camera, you would still have video, just not as much of it. Really not a bad deal for the price.
 
I am reading that the NVR uses ethernet cable and POE, DVR does not - uses coax plus a separate power cable.
Because I want to be able to easily make & terminate cables and ethernet is so much more physically flexible, I think I will go that way.
 
I have an 8-camera system with 1TB DVR sitting here uninstalled. We had planned to run cable when the house got new siding, but the timing simply didn't work out. As a result I have $500 worth of hardware sitting here unused. I can't figure out a good way to get cables from anywhere we'd want cameras to anywhere we'd want to (or even be able to) put the DVR.

Seemed like a good purchase at the time... sigh.
 
Our wired system is from Eclipse but they only sell to businesses. Worth a look but not inexpensive. The recording box has a 2TB drive and records 14 cameras for about 2 weeks.
 
Reading this thread renewed my interest in this area - something I was working on about 6 years ago. I had (and still have) a good quality JVC PTZ (Pan, Tilt,
Zoom) IP camera. It came with a PC program for viewing and recording the video - but nothing else. I acquired a separate web interface - and struggled for a
long time to make it work (I eventually succeeded). But it sure wasn't easy. Then I changed jobs and moved - and it got put away for several years. I have more
recently set it up to monitor equipment at a remote site, where a dedicated IP link is available - in which role it works well.

Then about a month ago a mountain lion was spotted prowling around at night on a residential security system - right in my neighborhood. That sparked me into
action. After re-reading this thread and reading reviews, I settled on a Dericam S1-32G. It is a PTZ camera in an outdoor housing that has a built-in web interface,
and will work in either wired or wireless mode. It also includes a 32 GB memory card on which to record video or still shots. It includes a PC program for controlling
it - but the real difference is a a smartphone app you download, with which you can view and control the camera from anywhere you have cell data service.

So far I have only made use of the still photo capability - set up to trigger on the motion detection function. There is a lot more, including email notifications that
has not been tried. My overall impression of this unit is that it is of high quality, is easy to set up (I use WiFi connectivity, and it works well), and the performance
exceeds my expectations. The "bang for the buck" factor is very high - all for about $135. The only thing that appears to be substandard is that the pan and tilt
increments in the app (but not the PC Program) are preset (and too large). This makes it difficult or impossible to center an object of interest and then zoom in on
it. Other than that, I am quite pleased with the system.

Oh - and by the way, I have not detected any unwanted nocturnal visitors so far. The motion detection is quite sensitive, and triggers on things like a light inside the
house being turned on or off (even though the camera is not pointed at any windows).

Dave
 
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