[na]I accidentally told a coworker what I make[na]

Rushie said:
If women were actually being paid less for equal work, every company would be hiring exclusively women. Why would they pay more for the same value?
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Sssh. You let out the secret.
 
Perspective is key.

A dying Billionaire wants to give all his money away quickly before he's gone.

He finds a hard working guy down on his luck. Says "I'll give you a million dollars if you go get me a cup of coffee at Starblechs"
Dude hightails it over and back, gets his check and spends the next month celebrating with his family and telling them how wonderful and generous the Billionaire is and how much he loves him for doing something so amazing to help them.

Billionaire finds another guy, older and larger family, even more down on his luck. Sends him for a cup 'o Joe, and writes him a check for 10 million.

Through the grapevine, Guy #1 hears a little about Guy #2.
He looks him up, and says "Isn't it great that he gave us so much money!?! I love him!"
Guy #2 says "Yeah I know right!?! 10 million!!!!"

Guy #1 "That cheap bastard!!!!!"
 
Skyrys62 said:
Perspective is key.

A dying Billionaire wants to give all his money away quickly before he's gone.

He finds a hard working guy down on his luck. Says "I'll give you a million dollars if you go get me a cup of coffee at Starblechs"
Dude hightails it over and back, gets his check and spends the next month celebrating with his family and telling them how wonderful and generous the Billionaire is and how much he loves him for doing something so amazing to help them.

Billionaire finds another guy, older and larger family, even more down on his luck. Sends him for a cup 'o Joe, and writes him a check for 10 million.

Through the grapevine, Guy #1 hears a little about Guy #2.
He looks him up, and says "Isn't it great that he gave us so much money!?! I love him!"
Guy #2 says "Yeah I know right!?! 10 million!!!!"

Guy #1 "That cheap bastard!!!!!"
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Modern retelling of Matthew chapter 20:

20 “For the kingdom of heaven is like for the day and sent them into his vineyard.

3 “About nine in the morning he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing. 4 He told them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.’ 5 So they went.

“He went out again about noon and about three in the afternoon and did the same thing.6 About five in the afternoon he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, ‘Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing?’

7 “‘Because no one has hired us,’ they answered.

“He said to them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard.’

8 “When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first.’

9 “The workers who were hired about five in the afternoon came and each received a denarius. 10 So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. 11 When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. 12 ‘These who were hired last worked only one hour,’ they said, ‘and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.’

13 “But he answered one of them, ‘ Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? 14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15 Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’
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Clip4 said:
In most states the public employee’s salaries are public record and available online. Everyone’s tax returns should be viewable online - sure would end tax cheating.
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Wow. I've given up finding an analogy on this. Having given up I can only say this is the most moronic statement I've read in weeks.

Do you ACTUALLY think that publishing tax returns would do anything for cheating? Which Guy On The Internet is going to launch a legal inquiry into said cheaters return?

And, btw, congrats on achieving "most moronic."
 
But to @SixPapaCharlie - Leave any discussion of compensation out of ALL conversations.

When I'm doing examples of labor costs and the like, I refer to my wages as "So we'll use my outrageous rate of $0.25/hour as an example..."

Guy I asked me about 6 months ago, "May I ask you how much you make per hour?" I said, "Sure. I'll add that to the list of questions you've asked that I'll never answer." Kid (mid 20's) understood me pretty well.
 
Ravioli said:
Wow. I've given up finding an analogy on this. Having given up I can only say this is the most moronic statement I've read in weeks.

Do you ACTUALLY think that publishing tax returns would do anything for cheating?
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It would also expose other things like addresses, medical expenses (insurance would love that one), social security numbers.. the list goes on.
 
Skyrys62 said:
It would also expose other things like addresses, medical expenses (insurance would love that one), social security numbers.. the list goes on.
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...charitable contributions...property taxes...alimony...
 
Ravioli said:
But to @SixPapaCharlie - Leave any discussion of compensation out of ALL conversations.

When I'm doing examples of labor costs and the like, I refer to my wages as "So we'll use my outrageous rate of $0.25/hour as an example..."

Guy I asked me about 6 months ago, "May I ask you how much you make per hour?" I said, "Sure. I'll add that to the list of questions you've asked that I'll never answer." Kid (mid 20's) understood me pretty well.
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My lawyer had no problem telling me what he makes per hour...
 
Rushie said:
My lawyer had no problem telling me what he makes per hour...
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While he may have told you what he CHARGES per hour, it's highly unlikely he told you how much of that he makes. Usually two different figures by the time the firm finishes paying fixed costs, kicking percentages to the partners, hold backs for potential charge backs, etc.
 
I've never understood the aversion to talking about ones pay. I have not problem telling someone what I make if they ask, and I couldn't care less if they do ask. Then again, every job I've held had either had known pay rates (CFI/Airline) or my pay was a matter of public knowledge (military). In the airline world it's actually kind of nice to see so we can compare ourselves to other airlines. It's also great because we can see the difference in income potential even within the same pay rate/category.
 
I can’t believe this whole thread is about 6PC having an extra $5.

;)
 
Ravioli said:
While he may have told you what he CHARGES per hour, it's highly unlikely he told you how much of that he makes. Usually two different figures by the time the firm finishes paying fixed costs, kicking percentages to the partners, hold backs for potential charge backs, etc.
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“Artistic license.”

But I understand, I too take things too literally sometimes.
 
Palmpilot said:
"I'll invoke the fifth amendment on that!"

I don't know why it's such a taboo subject, but my guess is that it's a taboo that serves the interests of management more than anyone else.
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As a member of management, I can confirm that. It's explicitly why we tell employees not to discuss financials, to keep salaries down.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I think that’s a pretty awful idea. First off there’s various privacy rights. Second it would make it a lot easier for nefarious individuals to target people for varying kinds of theft.

When it comes to the tax returns of non profits and salaries of publicly compensated individuals (i.e. taxpayer funded) that should be public. Otherwise I’m with @nauga on filing under N for nunya.



That could be someone fishing for info, or else someone more curious because they want to learn what others are doing. That gets into that indirect taking about money, which I don’t mind doing but some people do. Most people don’t mind saying they paid cash for a car or plane, which obviously implies some level of money in the bank (or at least that was in the bank). A house can get a bit different since it’s such a large purchase and thus can indicate much larger money on hand if you bought in cash or had a large down payment.
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What are these "privacy rights" of which you speak?
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
I make more than I should....said no one ever.

At our place we just talk about people’s salary grade. You can tell from their title in the org charts. Most people know the ranges of the grades but can’t pinpoint where you would be in that range. So most chat is “I can’t believe that person is a [salary grade].”
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My Dad used to say that he was "grossly overpaid, but not nearly enough".
 
mryan75 said:
As a member of management, I can confirm that. It's explicitly why we tell employees not to discuss financials, to keep salaries down.
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And this is exactly why I don't understand why people don't talk about it, and why I WOULD talk about it if I were not in a union.
 
mryan75 said:
As a member of management, I can confirm that. It's explicitly why we tell employees not to discuss financials, to keep salaries down.
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As a member of management, at our place it's because we've found that the resulting de-motivation of average employees is far, far greater than the motivation given to high achievers.
 
Sociald said:
And this is exactly why I don't understand why people don't talk about it, and why I WOULD talk about it if I were not in a union.
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When one of my reports says “so and so makes such and such so I should make more” it doesn’t help them one bit. It makes my life more miserable dealing with them, but it doesn’t change their salary. Since I’m not a douche, I’m already fighting to get those that deserve it what they deserve. The one complaining is probably not producing as much. And if I were a douche, it still wouldn’t help.
 
Salty said:
When one of my reports says “so and so makes such and such so I should make more” it doesn’t help them one bit. It makes my life more miserable dealing with them, but it doesn’t change their salary. Since I’m not a douche, I’m already fighting to get those that deserve it what they deserve. The one complaining is probably not producing as much. And if I were a douche, it still wouldn’t help.
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Agreed.

I have an overall budget to maintain, but other than that I get zero pressure from management to pay my people as little as possible. If I'm not fighting for someone to get the best possible pay raise, there's probably a very good reason.

Where I do get pressure is to keep my folks highly productive, motivated, engergized, and very very well trained. And I spend a ton of money doing that.
 
My small business had the same rule everyone else had. Don't discuss salary.

I only had 7 employees at the time, but I needed 8 or 9. One moved because her husband lost his job and he wanted to move back home. Another got pregnant and decided to just stop working. I desperately needed someone.
Then I got really lucky (I thought). I found an experienced technician that had an excellent resume and education. The problem was she required a starting salary higher than anyone else was making. I was desperate for help and she seemed worth it so I met her demand.

About two weeks later one of the other employees found out what she was making. I think the new employee disclosed it. Before I knew it, everyone knew and there was chaos. I had to make a decision;
Fire the new employee for disclosing her salary.
Give everyone else a raise.
Just tell everyone else to suck it up.

To this day, 22 years later, I think I made the wrong decision.
 
Half Fast said:
As a member of management, at our place it's because we've found that the resulting de-motivation of average employees is far, far greater than the motivation given to high achievers.
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Why it’s bad in the opinion of management generally depends on some other characteristics of the management group.
 
As a retired person, the issue doesn't affect me directly, but it's interesting to learn about aspects of the situation that I hadn't been aware of.
 
JOhnH said:
But did he tell you he bills three or four hours per hour?
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If you mean for the one hour he’s going to spend with me tomorrow, he spent three or four hours studying the stack of paper I sent him, then I’m aware.
 
JOhnH said:
To this day, 22 years later, I think I made the wrong decision.
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It is sort of a management Kobayashi Maru. No matter which way you go, you will second guess afterwards.
 
JOhnH said:
My small business had the same rule everyone else had. Don't discuss salary.

I only had 7 employees at the time, but I needed 8 or 9. One moved because her husband lost his job and he wanted to move back home. Another got pregnant and decided to just stop working. I desperately needed someone.
Then I got really lucky (I thought). I found an experienced technician that had an excellent resume and education. The problem was she required a starting salary higher than anyone else was making. I was desperate for help and she seemed worth it so I met her demand.

About two weeks later one of the other employees found out what she was making. I think the new employee disclosed it. Before I knew it, everyone knew and there was chaos. I had to make a decision;
Fire the new employee for disclosing her salary.
Give everyone else a raise.
Just tell everyone else to suck it up.

To this day, 22 years later, I think I made the wrong decision.
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The suspense is killing me. What did you do?
 
Sociald said:
And this is exactly why I don't understand why people don't talk about it, and why I WOULD talk about it if I were not in a union.
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I tell people on the side exactly that: there's nothing preventing them from discussing it.
 
Rushie said:
The suspense is killing me. What did you do?
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He fired her. He wishes he had just told everyone to suck it up. Firing her didn't solve the problem. Either problem.
 
mryan75 said:
He fired her. He wishes he had just told everyone to suck it up. Firing her didn't solve the problem. Either problem.
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Ah. I wasn’t sure because I could imagine regretting any of the three choices. But here’s reality, it was a market driven price. There was a shortage of that talent and presumably she had other job opportunities hence the high salary demand. Had he told everyone else to suck it up, they might have looked for other jobs and quit, or demanded more pay themselves. Had they been unable to get other offers, that's evidence they were not as high quality as her, and hence not deserving of her high pay. The problem is, people never accept the fact that they’re not worth as much as someone else.
 
Rushie said:
If women were actually being paid less for equal work, every company would be hiring exclusively women. Why would they pay more for the same value?
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I
Rushie said:
If you mean for the one hour he’s going to spend with me tomorrow, he spent three or four hours studying the stack of paper I sent him, then I’m aware.
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He'll probably have a low-paid clerk still in law school write him an abstract, but bill you at full chat. I was the IT guy at three law firms for 15 years (another odd stop on my checkered past) and saw that sort of thing openly discussed.
 
mryan75 said:
He fired her. He wishes he had just told everyone to suck it up. Firing her didn't solve the problem. Either problem.
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Good guess.
I called the new employee into the office to discuss it with her, and she became indignant, then started complaining about the policy, then started crying. It was sort of a mutual decision to let her go.

One thing I remember telling her while she was complaining about the policy was that this was an example of why the policy existed in the first place.

One outcome was that I never had another problem (that I heard about) of employees discussing salaries. And over the next year, I did give the deserving employees nice raises, but that had nothing to do with this situation. In fact, I almost deferred those raises because of this situation.
 
JOhnH said:
Good guess.
I called the new employee into the office to discuss it with her, and she became indignant, then started complaining about the policy, then started crying. It was sort of a mutual decision to let her go.

One thing I remember telling her while she was complaining about the policy was that this was an example of why the policy existed in the first place.

One outcome was that I never had another problem (that I heard about) of employees discussing salaries. And over the next year, I did give the deserving employees nice raises, but that had nothing to do with this situation. In fact, I almost deferred those raises because of this situation.
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Sounds like the right decision to me. What are you thinking you should have done?
 
JOhnH said:
Good guess.
I called the new employee into the office to discuss it with her, and she became indignant, then started complaining about the policy, then started crying. It was sort of a mutual decision to let her go.

One thing I remember telling her while she was complaining about the policy was that this was an example of why the policy existed in the first place.

One outcome was that I never had another problem (that I heard about) of employees discussing salaries. And over the next year, I did give the deserving employees nice raises, but that had nothing to do with this situation. In fact, I almost deferred those raises because of this situation.
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I'm not seeing any reason for regret on that one.
 
Rushie said:
If you mean for the one hour he’s going to spend with me tomorrow, he spent three or four hours studying the stack of paper I sent him, then I’m aware.
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If he's working on your issue, even the 5 (rounding up) hours to prepare for your meeting., that's billable. I'd present you a 6 hour bill for the one hour meeting. It would be for $x/hour and would have no correlation whatsoever to what I "make," it is only what I charge.

@JOhnH -- It's unfortunate a company rule was needed. In my limited workplace experience (only 35 years) laborers know each others wages because it is the same for everyone of the same position. Professionals don't actually know, because Professionals in the US typically keep it private (as they should), but only a real bonehead would have any trouble guessing in the ballpark.
 
Half Fast said:
As a member of management, at our place it's because we've found that the resulting de-motivation of average employees is far, far greater than the motivation given to high achievers.
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I disagree. High achievers don't need motivation. They motivate themselves. That's why they're high achievers.

Half Fast said:
View attachment 80689
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.

Gotta disagree here as well. You don't fire all of them, you fire one of them. If that doesn't cure your morale problems, there is a reason you have morale problems. And whatever that problem is is your core issue, not the morale problems themselves.
 
JOhnH said:
Good guess.
I called the new employee into the office to discuss it with her, and she became indignant, then started complaining about the policy, then started crying. It was sort of a mutual decision to let her go.

One thing I remember telling her while she was complaining about the policy was that this was an example of why the policy existed in the first place.

One outcome was that I never had another problem (that I heard about) of employees discussing salaries. And over the next year, I did give the deserving employees nice raises, but that had nothing to do with this situation. In fact, I almost deferred those raises because of this situation.
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I suppose it was a guess, but it was the only obvious answer.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Sounds like the right decision to me. What are you thinking you should have done?
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Kept her and told everyone else that if they want her kind of money they can have it, if they do the job as well as she does. They will either resent her or step up, or both. Either way he wins.
 
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