NA... Boomers ... NA

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Florida Cracker said:
Since I don't your lie is not only dishonest, but stupid. Congrats.
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What's the matter? Feeling a little hypocritical? Why do you feel the parasite class is entitled to 12% of the productive folks' paychecks? Sounds like a lib to me.
 
A suggestion. You can complain about boomers and how many resources they hold, or you can observe that the are a lot of boomers and they have a lot of resources. Figure out what they are going to spend their money on and invest in those things. They are getting old and they cant take it with them. A lot of money is going to be spent somewhere. Assisted living. Skilled nursing. Cruise ships. Depends. Use your imagination and make some money off the demographic shifts. Maybe along the way some nice used airplanes will come on the market too.
 
Henning said:
Colonizing another planet will require a level of cooperation we do not have (nor will, or should, it come before colonizing space). We will never have the resources available to do that when we waste 70% of everything, and half of what we spend money on is dedicated to the destruction of resources we already developed. We're going nowhere except extinct, we have until 9 billion people to get our **** together and evolve into a cooperative and productive species that delegates resources to best result for mankind rather than for greatest monetary profit, or we get replaced. We've had 6500 years and have utterly failed to evolve socially as required. We are a useless species that is just wasting resources and not providing the required return on investment in us. We fail to provide what we are meant for.
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We'll have an all-out war and cull the herd down to around 3 or 4 $Billion or fewer before that happens.
 
bartmc said:
What's the matter? Feeling a little hypocritical? Why do you feel the parasite class is entitled to 12% of the productive folks' paychecks? Sounds like a lib to me.
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You REALLY need to call your mommy to bring you a warm sippy cup full of milk, and a teddy bear so you can wrap yourself in your baby blanket and cry yourself to sleep.

What self-serving, egotistical bull****.

Congratulations, you've lost your mind.
 
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Florida Cracker said:
You REALLY need to call your mommy to bring you a warm sippy cup full of milk, and a teddy bear so you can wrap yourself in your baby blanket and cry yourself to sleep.

What self-serving, egotistical bull****.

Congratulations, you've lost your mind.
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So I can sign you up as a supporter of obamaphones? Hillary 2016? You seem to love socialism and handouts. That's self serving and egotistical...and hypocritical. Just like kneepad wearing dem, declaring you deserve 12% of my paycheck.
 
Florida Cracker said:
You REALLY need to call your mommy to bring you a warm sippy cup full of milk, and a teddy bear so you can wrap yourself in your baby blanket and cry yourself to sleep.

What self-serving, egotistical bull****.

Congratulations, you've lost your mind.
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Part of the problem with a lot of people who rail against "entitlements" is that they have no idea (or deliberately ignore) what an "entitlement program" actually is and why they are classified as such. That's why people like bartmc lump Obamaphones in the same category as Social Security. They either don't know the difference or they deliberately ignore it.

An entitlement program, legally and in every other way, is a program to which persons are entitled, without having to prove need, because either they or their employers paid for those benefits in advance of statutory eligibility. The three main examples are:

Social Security
Medicare
Unemployment Insurance

There are some sub-programs (such as Disability and Survivor's Benefits) and some other less-common examples, including some state programs; but the above are the three most common.

Social Security is an entitlement for most Americans upon reaching age 62 or becoming disabled because both they and their employers paid into the system in advance. This isn't semantics. It's the way the law was written. Only self-centered Gen X's and Millennials try to deny that. That's not to say it's a "good" program: I've already said that I think it needs to be scrapped. But it is what it is, and what it is is a legal entitlement.

Medicare is also an entitlement. Most Americans become entitled to Medicare upon reaching age 65 or becoming disabled, for the same reason: they paid into the program in advance. Again, that doesn't mean it's "good" (although I think it's probably better-managed than Social Security, which isn't saying much), but it is in fact a legal entitlement.

Unemployment Insurance is also an entitlement. Everyone who has worked for the requisite amount of time in a job for which unemployment insurance was carried and premiums paid on their behalf is entitled to collect Unemployment Insurance if they lose their job due to no fault of their own. They don't have to prove that they need the money. They only have to prove that their unemployment was involuntary and not their own fault, and that they are actively looking for work. It's an insurance program, not a welfare benefit. Whether it's a good one is highly debatable; but again, for the time being, it is what it is, and what it is is a legal entitlement.

Programs like TANF (what most people mean when they say "welfare"), SNAP ("Food Stamps"), Medicaid, Obamacare subsidies, Obamaphones, and most other federal and state social service programs are not entitlement programs. No one is automatically entitled to them by virtue of having paid into these programs in advance, individuals seeking these benefits must prove financial need, and the programs can be done away with at any time by Congress or the state legislatures.

In theory, Social Security and Medicare are pooled deposit accounts with both defined contributions and defined-benefit payouts. You deposit money into them all your working life which in theory is placed in a "trust fund" from which you will draw when you meet the statutory entitlement standard (age or disability, or in the case of your survivor's benefits, death).

In practice, the trust fund is just a box of IOUs; but in theory and in law, it is a real account with real money. It's like a bank account or any other deposit account. And yes, it's not-so-slowly going broke. That's why I advocate scrapping Social Security and compensating those who paid into the account, allowing them to invest that money in private retirement accounts while there's still something left to invest; and also freeing the OP, bartmc, their generations, and future generations from a failing, unsustainable program.

That's not enough for some Gen X's and Millennials, however. They demand not only that the programs be scrapped, but that no repayment be made to those who have money invested in the trust funds. Somehow this makes sense in the context of their sociopathically self-centered outlooks on life. It's perfectly okay to dissolve an account and say "**** you" to the people whose money that account contains if it makes their own financial situations a bit better.

As I said earlier, if I were dependent on the next generations to help me through my old age, I would be worried. There seem to be all too many among them who are genuine sociopaths concerned only with their own well-being. I hope, but am not at all certain, that either they're just a vocal minority or that they will mellow with age and wisdom.

Rich
 
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RJM62 said:
Part of the problem with a lot of people who rail against "entitlements" is that they have no idea (or deliberately ignore) what an "entitlement program" actually is and why they are classified as such. That's why people like bartmc lump Obamaphones in the same category as Social Security. They either don't know the difference or they deliberately ignore it.

An entitlement program, legally and in every other way, is a program to which persons are entitled, without having to prove need, because either they or their employers paid for those benefits in advance of statutory eligibility. The three main examples are:

Social Security
Medicare
Unemployment Insurance

There are some sub-programs (such as Disability and Survivor's Benefits) and some other less-common examples, including some state programs; but the above are the three most common.

Social Security is an entitlement for most Americans upon reaching age 62 or becoming disabled because both they and their employers paid into the system in advance. This isn't semantics. It's the way the law was written. Only self-centered Gen X's and Millennials try to deny that. That's not to say it's a "good" program: I've already said that I think it needs to be scrapped. But it is what it is, and what it is is a legal entitlement.

Medicare is also an entitlement. Most Americans become entitled to Medicare upon reaching age 65 or becoming disabled, for the same reason: they paid into the program in advance. Again, that doesn't mean it's "good" (although I think it's probably better-managed than Social Security, which isn't saying much), but it is in fact a legal entitlement.

Unemployment Insurance is also an entitlement. Everyone who has worked for the requisite amount of time in a job for which unemployment insurance was carried and premiums paid on their behalf is entitled to collect Unemployment Insurance if they lose their job due to no fault of their own. They don't have to prove that they need the money. They only have to prove that their unemployment was involuntary and not their own fault, and that they are actively looking for work. It's an insurance program, not a welfare benefit. Whether it's a good one is highly debatable; but again, for the time being, it is what it is, and what it is is a legal entitlement.

Programs like TANF (what most people mean when they say "welfare"), SNAP ("Food Stamps"), Medicaid, Obamacare subsidies, Obamaphones, and most other federal and state social service programs are not entitlement programs. No one is automatically entitled to them by virtue of having paid into these programs in advance, individuals seeking these benefits must prove financial need, and the programs can be done away with at any time by Congress or the state legislatures.

In theory, Social Security and Medicare are pooled deposit accounts with both defined contributions and defined-benefit payouts. You deposit money into them all your working life which in theory is placed in a "trust fund" from which you will draw when you meet the statutory entitlement standard (age or disability, or in the case of your survivor's benefits, death).

In practice, the trust fund is just a box of IOUs; but in theory and in law, it is a real account with real money. It's like a bank account or any other deposit account. And yes, it's not-so-slowly going broke. That's why I advocate scrapping Social Security and compensating those who paid into the account, allowing them to invest that money in private retirement accounts while there's still something left to invest; and also freeing the OP, bartmc, their generations, and future generations from a failing, unsustainable program.

That's not enough for some Gen X's and Millennials, however. They demand not only that the programs be scrapped, but that no repayment be made to those who have money invested in the trust funds. Somehow this makes sense in the context of their sociopathically self-centered outlooks on life. It's perfectly okay to dissolve an account and say "**** you" to the people whose money that account contains if it makes their own financial situations a bit better.

As I said earlier, if I were dependent on the next generations to help me through my old age, I would be worried. There seem to be all too many among them who are genuine sociopaths concerned only with their own well-being. I hope, but am not at all certain, that either they're just a vocal minority or that they will mellow with age and wisdom.

Rich
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Sematics.

Go clean all your money out of the "trust fund". If you "invested" in something, your money should be there. Go get it. Like I said before. I'm not asking for anything from the boomers other than to leave me the hell alone. I guess that makes me a self centered sociopath because I think 62 years is ample time to plan for retirement and I think people should be able to build that retirement without resorting to bankrup, bad idea, socialist programs and live with the consequence if they do not.

SS is a tax, you didn't invest in anything. You got taxed, it got spent. Your money wasn't put into an account or anything. It was just spent. It's gone.
 
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Apparently people don't understand the concept of dept of honor, the concept of promises made.
 
bartmc said:
Sematics.

Your money wasn't put into an account or anything. It was just spent. It's gone.
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No, but the IOUs were, and under current law, they are being paid out for disability and retirement. Subject to change of course, but find me a credible Politician who will vote to abolish SS.

Fear not Bart. You'll pay to fund my luxury car leases and vacations, and someone behind you will pay even more for you. Quit whining and relax.......


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Who is John Galt? What if no one shows up to make the big taxable dollars? Maybe young folks decide time is worth more then making money for other people? What's the downside, no reward in heaven, the whole work for 40 years, be retired for 30 is over. No one under 65 believes that game plan will work. Might as well go third world, take a siesta and plan to work less, much less, but of course longer, probably to the end. Better quality of life for the young bonus less money to siphon off into the boomer rape the world machine.
 
RJM62 said:
Part of the problem with a lot of people who rail against "entitlements" is that they have no idea (or deliberately ignore) what an "entitlement program" actually is and why they are classified as such. That's why people like bartmc lump Obamaphones in the same category as Social Security. They either don't know the difference or they deliberately ignore it.

An entitlement program, legally and in every other way, is a program to which persons are entitled, without having to prove need, because either they or their employers paid for those benefits in advance of statutory eligibility. The three main examples are:

Social Security
Medicare
Unemployment Insurance

There are some sub-programs (such as Disability and Survivor's Benefits) and some other less-common examples, including some state programs; but the above are the three most common.

Social Security is an entitlement for most Americans upon reaching age 62 or becoming disabled because both they and their employers paid into the system in advance. This isn't semantics. It's the way the law was written. Only self-centered Gen X's and Millennials try to deny that. That's not to say it's a "good" program: I've already said that I think it needs to be scrapped. But it is what it is, and what it is is a legal entitlement.

Medicare is also an entitlement. Most Americans become entitled to Medicare upon reaching age 65 or becoming disabled, for the same reason: they paid into the program in advance. Again, that doesn't mean it's "good" (although I think it's probably better-managed than Social Security, which isn't saying much), but it is in fact a legal entitlement.

Unemployment Insurance is also an entitlement. Everyone who has worked for the requisite amount of time in a job for which unemployment insurance was carried and premiums paid on their behalf is entitled to collect Unemployment Insurance if they lose their job due to no fault of their own. They don't have to prove that they need the money. They only have to prove that their unemployment was involuntary and not their own fault, and that they are actively looking for work. It's an insurance program, not a welfare benefit. Whether it's a good one is highly debatable; but again, for the time being, it is what it is, and what it is is a legal entitlement.

Programs like TANF (what most people mean when they say "welfare"), SNAP ("Food Stamps"), Medicaid, Obamacare subsidies, Obamaphones, and most other federal and state social service programs are not entitlement programs. No one is automatically entitled to them by virtue of having paid into these programs in advance, individuals seeking these benefits must prove financial need, and the programs can be done away with at any time by Congress or the state legislatures.

In theory, Social Security and Medicare are pooled deposit accounts with both defined contributions and defined-benefit payouts. You deposit money into them all your working life which in theory is placed in a "trust fund" from which you will draw when you meet the statutory entitlement standard (age or disability, or in the case of your survivor's benefits, death).

In practice, the trust fund is just a box of IOUs; but in theory and in law, it is a real account with real money. It's like a bank account or any other deposit account. And yes, it's not-so-slowly going broke. That's why I advocate scrapping Social Security and compensating those who paid into the account, allowing them to invest that money in private retirement accounts while there's still something left to invest; and also freeing the OP, bartmc, their generations, and future generations from a failing, unsustainable program.

That's not enough for some Gen X's and Millennials, however. They demand not only that the programs be scrapped, but that no repayment be made to those who have money invested in the trust funds. Somehow this makes sense in the context of their sociopathically self-centered outlooks on life. It's perfectly okay to dissolve an account and say "**** you" to the people whose money that account contains if it makes their own financial situations a bit better.

As I said earlier, if I were dependent on the next generations to help me through my old age, I would be worried. There seem to be all too many among them who are genuine sociopaths concerned only with their own well-being. I hope, but am not at all certain, that either they're just a vocal minority or that they will mellow with age and wisdom.

Rich
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The most troubling thing about an otherwise intelligent and cogent thinker, like Bart, is that he is so blind about SSI. The concept of faithfully living up to their end of the contract, and then expecting fed gov, to live up to theirs is a foreign language because he has been programmed to believe whatever he wants should be the law of the land, no matter what.
 
RJM62 said:
That's not enough for some Gen X's and Millennials, however. They demand not only that the programs be scrapped, but that no repayment be made to those who have money invested in the trust funds. Somehow this makes sense in the context of their sociopathically self-centered outlooks on life. It's perfectly okay to dissolve an account and say "**** you" to the people whose money that account contains if it makes their own financial situations a bit better.
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I'm not trying to take this part of your post out of context, but a small comment here...

I've never met a Millenial or Gen X person who thought Social Security should be scrapped, at this point we're all pretty resigned to the fact that it's flat out going to be gone/bankrupt well before we reach retirement age. I fall on the border of Gen X & Millenial (born in '83) and on occasion I receive a letter from the SSA explaining what my benefits should look like when I retire, it's a sad, cruel joke that I laugh at and throw away. Nobody in Gen X or the Millenial generations should be planning on Social Security being anything more than a distant memory by the time we're ready to retire.

The reason I point this out is it's frustrating for us because we're paying in and have absolutely no expectation that we'll get anything out. Meanwhile, any minor change to the Social Security program to try and make it more financially viable is met with outrage from the generations currently on or close to Social Security age. And then those changes are rolled back and the train keeps rolling towards derailment well before our stop.

I don't know what a better idea would be, I feel that if you just killed the program and compensated people for the amount they've put in, they'd blow it all on stupid stuff. Let's be honest, the general American public has shown they are completely incapable of planning for retirement.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Who is John Galt? What if no one shows up to make the big taxable dollars? Maybe young folks decide time is worth more then making money for other people? What's the downside, no reward in heaven, the whole work for 40 years, be retired for 30 is over. No one under 65 believes that game plan will work. Might as well go third world, take a siesta and plan to work less, much less, but of course longer, probably to the end. Better quality of life for the young bonus less money to siphon off into the boomer rape the world machine.
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PLEASE feel free to drop out, pretend to go off the grid from the iron fist, and jack boot of the gov't. Go work for minimum wage, or better yet? Run your own business and never pay yourself any salary at all, then you will not qualify for either SSI, or Medicare when the time comes, and I GUARANTEE that you will demand your slice of the pie, even though you have have no right to collect it.

Your generation are far too self centered to actually live with the consequences of your actions. Look at the demands for forgiveness of your college loans? YOU and your generation ran up the debts, why should the working people pay to make it go away???

Look at the pathetic, helpless, truly parasitic feminists demanding FREE birth control. What did those parasites do to earn free birth control, other than demand it?

Carry your own water, then talk to us about ours.
 
Florida Cracker said:
PLEASE feel free to drop out, pretend to go off the grid from the iron fist, and jack boot of the gov't. Go work for minimum wage, or better yet? Run your own business and never pay yourself any salary at all, then you will not qualify for either SSI, or Medicare when the time comes, and I GUARANTEE that you will demand your slice of the pie, even though you have have no right to collect it.

Your generation are far too self centered to actually live with the consequences of your actions. Look at the demands for forgiveness of your college loans? YOU and your generation ran up the debts, why should the working people pay to make it go away???

Look at the pathetic, helpless, truly parasitic feminists demanding FREE birth control. What did those parasites do to earn free birth control, other than demand it?

Carry your own water, then talk to us about ours.
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If your generation wasn;t too self centered to live with the consequences of your actions.... You'd be collecting closer to $300/mo than the $1,300/mo that's doled out today and of course now that the well is dry. You demand MORE taxes on the youth to pay for your condo association fees. Obama made a suggestion to tweak a SS Payment calculation that would have had very little effect on the average payment, the canes and walkers went flying.
 
ClimbnSink said:
into the boomer rape the world machine.
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Let's call it "Federal government mandated relations". Lay back, close your eyes, and relax.


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Boomers invented feminism, silly. Those broads exist because you boomers failed to manage yer wimmin. Just as you failed at everything else. The super mega proto boomer Hillary will soon be running what's left into the ground. Hope you are proud.
 
bartmc said:
If your generation wasn;t too self centered to live with the consequences of your actions.... You'd be collecting closer to $300/mo than the $1,300/mo that's doled out today and of course now that the well is dry. You demand MORE taxes on the youth to pay for your condo association fees. Obama made a suggestion to tweak a SS Payment calculation that would have had very little effect on the average payment, the canes and walkers went flying.
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You perfectly present my case for me.... thanks.

did you spit on yourself there?

Seriously, on this topic you remind me of jimmmmy when he starts foaming at the mouth about Dick Cheney and Haliburton.
 
bartmc said:
If your generation wasn;t too self centered to live with the consequences of your actions....
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Bart, feel free to swing by the beach house, drink some wine, and drive the Benz. I'll give you the code to get in. It's on me, Bro!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Fredbob711 said:
I'm not trying to take this part of your post out of context, but a small comment here...

I've never met a Millenial or Gen X person who thought Social Security should be scrapped, at this point we're all pretty resigned to the fact that it's flat out going to be gone/bankrupt well before we reach retirement age. I fall on the border of Gen X & Millenial (born in '83) and on occasion I receive a letter from the SSA explaining what my benefits should look like when I retire, it's a sad, cruel joke that I laugh at and throw away. Nobody in Gen X or the Millenial generations should be planning on Social Security being anything more than a distant memory by the time we're ready to retire.

The reason I point this out is it's frustrating for us because we're paying in and have absolutely no expectation that we'll get anything out. Meanwhile, any minor change to the Social Security program to try and make it more financially viable is met with outrage from the generations currently on or close to Social Security age. And then those changes are rolled back and the train keeps rolling towards derailment well before our stop.

I don't know what a better idea would be, I feel that if you just killed the program and compensated people for the amount they've put in, they'd blow it all on stupid stuff. Let's be honest, the general American public has shown they are completely incapable of planning for retirement.
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I'm not talking about just cutting people checks and letting them blow it on booze and broads -- at least not immediately. I'm talking about letting them deposit it into a retirement plan of their choice.

Some would also advocate making regular deposits mandatory during one's working life; so the deductions would continue, but the money would go into a private IRA. I'm a bit on the fence about that and lean toward making withholding and IRA deposits mandatory only for people who don't have any other retirement assets. That's a pragmatic position more than a libertarian one: Many people, especially the poorest, would put nothing away for retirement if given the choice, thus creating a monstrous problem down the road.

One thing that people who do favor scrapping SS don't think about is that right now, Social Security contributions are a significant form of revenue for the federal government's general operations. That's because every dime is invested in federal obligations, and the money promptly spent by Congress. Eliminate that revenue and Congress will just create another one, almost certainly by increasing the income tax.

Given the fact that income subject to Social Security income is capped at $118,500 in 2015, whereas there is no cap for income tax, it's almost certain that if Social Security were scrapped and that revenue stream removed, most people on POA would pay more in the form of higher income taxes than they presently pay into SS.

Nonetheless, I still favor scrapping the system in favor of private accounts simply because it's clearly unsustainable. I don't think there's any other option. It's just fiscal reality. But it's just as much of a reality that if the SS revenue stream is removed, Congress will replace it, almost certainly in the form of increased income taxes.

Rich
 
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RJM62 said:
Nonetheless, I still favor scrapping the system in favor of private accounts
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And then the street will find a way to crash the market and run off with your retirement money. There is no easy answer.
 
ggroves said:
Let's call it "Federal government mandated relations". Lay back, close your eyes, and relax.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Nah, I'm just going to sit poolside and watch the boomers explode like the fat guy in meaning of life.
 
ggroves said:
Bart, feel free to swing by the beach house, drink some wine, and drive the Benz. I'll give you the code to get in. It's on me, Bro!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I'll be at mine, it has an airport 1 mile away. Is very convenient. I'll be there this weekend actually. But, why in God's name would I drive a Benz? Or drink wine? Bourbon, on the rocks.
 
Bill Jennings said:
And then the street will find a way to crash the market and run off with your retirement money. There is no easy answer.
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Yep. Then the cries about needing the govt. to step in and "do something" would be loud.

I'd venture to guess that less than 10% of the population would actually survive in this crowd's "leave us alone, we'll take care of ourselves" world. Nobody cares to look at the downside, unless poor houses and food lines are acceptable.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Florida Cracker said:
You perfectly present my case for me.... thanks.

did you spit on yourself there?

Seriously, on this topic you remind me of jimmmmy when he starts foaming at the mouth about Dick Cheney and Haliburton.
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I'll take that as meaning you support higher taxes on productive people to fund your retirement.
 
bartmc said:
I'll be at mine, it has an airport 1 mile away. Is very convenient. I'll be there this weekend actually. But, why in God's name would I drive a Benz? Or drink wine? Bourbon, on the rocks.
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Nice! Benz? Because a Vette is an even bigger cliche.


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Bill Jennings said:
And then the street will find a way to crash the market and run off with your retirement money. There is no easy answer.
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Actually, I've thought about that, too.

I am somewhat familiar (though not up on the current details) with the guidelines for union-sponsored benefits funds, and they're pretty solid. They basically consist of percentages to be invested in various types of instruments, along with standards for the quality of the instruments themselves. The goal is to assure capital preservation while aiming for growth and minimizing risk.

The standards work pretty well. Union benefit funds tend to be very solid if they follow the guidelines (and if no one raids the coffers, which unfortunately does happen sometimes). I would propose that retirement funds for my proposed replacement for SS have to qualify by adhering to a similar set of soundness guidelines before they could accept contributions.

Note that this requirement for soundness would only apply to the replacement for SS. If you wanted to invest in whale **** futures with your own, non-SS funds, then more power to you.

Rich
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
People that can spend their discretionary income on one of the most expensive hobbies on a flying forum complaining about who screwed up their world. I bet there are a lot more people that would give anything to be in that world. I bet it looks pretty to many many many other people.
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Yes it does, it looks really good to the people we kill to maintain that level of luxury while 2/3rds of the world is short on food and water. That they look with no opportunity because some people want to hoard every opportunity for themselves and give up nothing, that is ****ed up, and that is what the U.S. represents now. The revolution was lost, we are the 'enforcers' for the world's biggest mafia.

The question for you is, how long do you think it can last? It's your children that will suffer.
 
bartmc said:
What's the matter? Feeling a little hypocritical? Why do you feel the parasite class is entitled to 12% of the productive folks' paychecks? Sounds like a lib to me.
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I don't, I think we should eliminate the parasite class by eliminating the need for a parasite class. The only reason our culture has always maintained a parasite class is because our resource management system is still one that began under Divine Right many generations ago. No one has Divine Right to natural resources. The game has changed several times over the millennia, but the current form started when the Absolute Monarchs lost political power and transferred their wealth into a central banking and stock market economy scheme that maintained their control over all the resources by leveraging everyone else's wealth with their controlling interest. We went from landed feudalism to financial feudalism.
 
ggroves said:
Yep. Then the cries about needing the govt. to step in and "do something" would be loud.

I'd venture to guess that less than 10% of the population would actually survive in this crowd's "leave us alone, we'll take care of ourselves" world. Nobody cares to look at the downside, unless poor houses and food lines are acceptable.




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And yet the human species existed prior to 1935..somehow.
 
The politically palatable end run around killing ss is simply to make fat old people health care scarce and kill off the would be recipients. Maybe ocare isn't so bad after all.
 
bartmc said:
And yet the human species existed prior to 1935..somehow.
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The human species has not evolved their socio-economic model in 6500 years, we have just changed the rules of the game around to keep up with technology. "God gave it to ME!" is still our method of resource allocation, and that is what society is all about, resource allocation.
 
ggroves said:
Nice! Benz? Because a Vette is an even bigger cliche.


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Traded the Vette to get a dock at the house. Dock builder reeaalllly wanted a Stingray..... Dock was worth about double the Vette. I'm not a car person.
 
bartmc said:
I'll take that as meaning you support higher taxes on productive people to fund your retirement.
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No, I want to use the natural gas reserves in such a way it funds all the basics for society and creates multiple industries that create employment, even for those who are currently unemployable, to make them productive enough to tote their own.

Energy, Food, Water, Health Care. These industries should be operated for the greatest benefit to the evolution of mankind. You can leave everything else to the markets to make a profit on and compete and cheat each other with. Those four though should be removed from the hands of equities and financial markets. With just that, we can thrive as a peaceful species.
 
nddons said:
Well said. You must be a boomer. ;)
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No, I just understand that part of the equation that gives me the ability to live a certain way involves a lot of other people getting paid. Fair or unfair, it is not a surprise. It is part of the system. I can opt out of the system and go live in a cabin in the woods or under an overpass but I like Central AC so I will pay the costs and work as hard as I can to pay those costs, pay the costs to keep me comfortable, and chunk money into savings every month.
I also have an understanding that it could all disappear in an instant. Fair or unfair, it is what it is and I am fortunate to be a part of it.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
No, I just understand that part of the equation that gives me the ability to live a certain way involves a lot of other people getting paid. Fair or unfair, it is not a surprise. It is part of the system. I can opt out of the system and go live in a cabin in the woods or under an overpass but I like Central AC so I will pay the costs and work as hard as I can to pay those costs, pay the costs to keep me comfortable, and chunk money into savings every month.
I also have an understanding that it could all disappear in an instant. Fair or unfair, it is what it is and I am fortunate to be a part of it.
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Exactly, you do not have the option to live well and morally, nobody does and it stems from a decision to change a rule around 6500 years ago and allow usury. We think we have a Free Market, we are told so any way, but we don't. We have one financial market, try to compete and you go to prison or to war depending on who you are. We don't allow other economic systems to compete and will spend every last dollar and life maintaining that.
 
I don't know if I live imorally.
<-- Drinking a beer in my pool is certainly childish but I don't harm anyone by going to work every day and getting paid for it. Or choosing to get educated in a field that allows me to do things I could not otherwise do.

I certainly could up my monthly contribution to St. Jude. I really should do that.
 
I'd be willing to discuss that.
Not that I think for one minute that the government could do a better job than private industry at any of the areas you mentioned, but if we could come to a grand compromise where those things were put under government control, and ONLY those things, I would listen.

But then again, whatever happened to the idea in the constitution about the separation of powers, or the enumeration of power? I'm afraid the trade would work out as well as when Reagan offered tax increases in advance of spending cuts, but never got the spending cuts. We'd turn over control of the industries you mentioned, then once the government got all that control (and power), they would use it to coerce everyone to submit to their will or face the withholding of those services, like they are currently doing to States that refuse to expand Medicaid.

Henning said:
No, I want to use the natural gas reserves in such a way it funds all the basics for society and creates multiple industries that create employment, even for those who are currently unemployable, to make them productive enough to tote their own.

Energy, Food, Water, Health Care. These industries should be operated for the greatest benefit to the evolution of mankind. You can leave everything else to the markets to make a profit on and compete and cheat each other with. Those four though should be removed from the hands of equities and financial markets. With just that, we can thrive as a peaceful species.
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