NA Additional switches

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Dave Taylor
A server has a switch but they want to add computers and there are not enough receptacles so they bought another switch to add-on.
Can the new switch be added on like this, or do they need one large switch?
If it can be added on, is it plugged into the first switch or into the server?
This is a very small and simple server and I think the switches are unmanaged.
 
You're better off not cascading (basically daisy-chaining) switches unless you're using stackable managed switches. You'd be introducing more hops, more latency, more opportunities for collisions, more devices to fail and require troubleshooting, and various other potential problems.

That being said, in the typical SoHo environment, you usually won't experience any noticeable (nor even easily-measurable) problems at all if you do decide to cascade. The more complex the network and the more traffic it handles, the more chances there are for noticeable problems.

Rich
 
Switches don't have any limits on cascading as an absolute rule, but each switch introduces latency and the bandwidth might be limited through any particular switch node that cascades another switch through it, so it's generally advisable to keep your tree of switches pretty bushy rather than having a lot of switches between any two computers on the network. A bunch of switches cascades off one other switch isn't an uncommon configuration.
 
Yeah, it is not unusual to have a "hub" switch, that the others link to. I am guessing you don't have VLANs to worry about. If you do, you will need managed switches that support trunking ports. Remember that the uplink is a bottleneck. You will want at least a gig uplink. Everyone on the downstream switch is going to share that uplink, if the server is on the hub switch. As Rich pointed out, it does add complexity when troubleshooting network issues.
 
A server has a switch but they want to add computers and there are not enough receptacles so they bought another switch to add-on.
Can the new switch be added on like this, or do they need one large switch?
If it can be added on, is it plugged into the first switch or into the server?
This is a very small and simple server and I think the switches are unmanaged.
Switches (and hubs for that matter) can always be extended by connecting another switch to a port on the first. Switches (and hubs) have no effect on the logical topology of a network, with multiple switches the network will behave exactly the same as it would if everything was connected to one larger switch. In addition to expansion, adding switches is often done to simplify the physical topology (e.g. a switch serving a bunch of computers in one end of a building far away from the servers and main switch eliminates the need to run cables from all the distant computers to the server room) and unlike a hub a switch can increase the aggregate bandwidth of the network by isolating traffic that's local to the switch.
 
Looks like they are going to try it (connecting one switch to the one which is already connected to a server).
There are maybe 3 computers working at any one time so I'm hoping they don't experience the resource problems mentioned.

Would it be done by: network cable from any port on the first switch to any port on the second switch?
 
Looks like they are going to try it (connecting one switch to the one which is already connected to a server).
There are maybe 3 computers working at any one time so I'm hoping they don't experience the resource problems mentioned.

Would it be done by: network cable from any port on the first switch to any port on the second switch?
Yes, that is correct.
 
Looks like they are going to try it (connecting one switch to the one which is already connected to a server).
There are maybe 3 computers working at any one time so I'm hoping they don't experience the resource problems mentioned.

Would it be done by: network cable from any port on the first switch to any port on the second switch?

If both switches are symmetrical (all ports have the same speeds) then it won't matter which ports on the switches are used for the connection between them. Some switches have a combination of gig-E and 100k ports and if that's the case I'd use the higher speed ports to connect them unless there was only one gig-E port in which case that should probably go to the server. Also if you can anticipate any high traffic volumes between client PCs they ought to be connected directly to the same switch.
 
Here's a similar one.
I have used all the ports on my internet modem (an ATT uverse box).
So I can add one more internet-requiring device, a vendor has provided me with a small switch; I think it has 4 or 6 ports.
Same thing, just plug it in to an empty port on the modem and then I can use the additional switch ports to access the internet?
 
Here's a similar one.
I have used all the ports on my internet modem (an ATT uverse box).
So I can add one more internet-requiring device, a vendor has provided me with a small switch; I think it has 4 or 6 ports.
Same thing, just plug it in to an empty port on the modem and then I can use the additional switch ports to access the internet?

It will work, with the same caveats as previously mentioned. It's not the way a real networking purist with a touch of OCD would do it, but it will work.

You may want to connect devices requiring the least bandwidth to the additional switch (like a couple of network printers, for example). It probably wouldn't make any difference, but I wouldn't want to add the extra hop and concomitant latency and collision opportunities to something like a VOIP or video streaming box. That's just on principle. I doubt it would make any real-world difference.

Rich
 
The above stories of additional latency are a bit overblown, too. A low quality switch may add a whopping 3ms of latency. And better ones are measured in hundreds of microseconds. Most will have the switching type and speed listed in their specs, but we're not talking significant numbers here.

In a "two switch network" as you've described, I wouldn't worry about it in the slightest. What I would worry about is number of users who have to cross the cascade link simultaneously.

But again, in your case I believe you have a single server with a single gigabit connection running to it, and all users are sharing that single gigabit pipe to the server equally.

What you'll essentially be doing is creating a bottleneck between the switches of a single 1 gb pipe that if there's two users trying to run full data rate on the non-server switch, they have to share.

But it doesn't matter if the server is also a single 1gb pipe. They'd have to share that anyway.

(In larger environments a server may be fed by a trunk of multiple gig connections or an even faster technology so users are sharing a much bigger pipe to the server itself from the switching matrix of devices.)

I did raise an eyebrow at "there's only three computers working at a time" though... I assume and hope you're saying that there's lots and lots of computers on the network (thus the need for two switches) but only three people are working at once?

Keeping in mind that ...
A) 48 port gigabit switches of medium quality are relatively dirt cheap.

B) Computers run things constantly now even when people aren't actively working on them. The largest culprit would be automatic software update downloads.

I don't see a solid reason to cascade switches unless you've burnt up 48 ports.

24 port switches of medium quality are even cheaper. If you have less than 24 connections to make.

We could also talk about backplane limitations, switching type (store and forward vs cut through, etc). But it's all way overkill for a local gigabit LAN of two switches and one server.

You won't see any problems cascading those two. Just don't keep doing that if you add 100 more workstations. That's when you'll get into trouble.

Do make sure both switches are the same speed, as someone else mentioned, or you need to carefully look at usage cases for the slower switch. It's all in what path the users have to travel to get to the server.

If you have two gb switches cascaded and only a gb to the server anyway -- it falls into the category my VP of Design calls "ZFG". Zero ****s Given. LOL.

Start getting to three switches or a trunked link to the server, now you have to design it.

But in the end, if you have a less than 48 port network, just buy a 48 port switch.

Here's the real kicker for many businesses. Business continuity after a failure. If you use a single switch, do you maintain an on-site or immediately available spare to swap in to keep the critical business functions running?

At least in a two switch environment if they're located in the same physical location, you can swap some cables around and keep half of your systems running while the replacement is being shipped for the dead one.

Bunch of assumptions about your business size and what not above, but I can't think of an environment that would be harmed in any way by having two cascaded switches in the size I'm guessing you're at.
 
Plan:

Plugged into the Uverse box (6.0/0.6mpbs) :
1. Ooma base station (with a Lynx) VOIP (2 lines simultaneous use common)
2. Server (switch) typically 1 computer maybe 3 computers online at a time
3. Credit card processor
4. New switch (Buffalo Giga5 switching hub LSW3-GT-5EP/2 10/100/1000mb/s), to:
4a. Lab - rare use
5a. Xray - rare use
 
Plan:

Plugged into the Uverse box (6.0/0.6mpbs) :
1. Ooma base station (with a Lynx) VOIP (2 lines simultaneous use common)
2. Server (switch) typically 1 computer maybe 3 computers online at a time
3. Credit card processor
4. New switch (Buffalo Giga5 switching hub LSW3-GT-5EP/2 10/100/1000mb/s), to:
4a. Lab - rare use
5a. Xray - rare use

Makes sense.

Rich
 
Yeah, that'll work. Buffalo isn't known to be anywhere close to high quality, but they do tend to work. A notch above TP-Link perhaps.

The only time I've seen switches really cause problems are these:

1) Cheap SOHO devices like you have used in a data center environment.

2) Really expensive bleeding edge tens of thousands of dollar Ciscos that were released before they were really ready to handle core switch/router duties. (We had a dartboard with all the different versions of IOS on it because the TAC had told us to run about twelve different versions. Eventually the real problem was found to be misdesigned and over-sold line interface cards that we had to threaten to sue to get upgraded to newer models for free -- each had a list price over $40,000 and we had four of them in service at every site.)

C) Actual hardware failures.

D) Human error and misconfiguration.

Seen more of D than anything else. Just like flying.
 
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