******n IRS

[kyleb]

We've been back and forth with them about 10 times over ~$200 from 2012. They sent a bill for something like $5,000 of unpaid taxes, we reviewed the data, agreed that there was a mistake on the return that amounted to $200. We sent a check for the $200. Subsequently, we got an invoice for the $200, and additional ones for $8 and $8. Then another invoice for the $200. So SWMBO called 'em and they confirmed that the $200 we'd already sent took care of the obligation, but their systems don't share information well enough to prevent the subsequent bills, which came ~30 days after we'd paid what was due...

AAh, government efficiency.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

I got a (yes, bonafide) letter from them in Dec saying I am owed a refund for overpaying 250$ of 941 taxes. It says you will lose this refund if you don't claim it within (an unspecified but urgently approaching) time. So I call the number provided. And call. And call. Their system says "60min wait time" and hangs up. Weeks later now. I guess its their way of guaranteeing a revenue stream.

 

[Henning]

Money that could at the very least been sitting in an interest bearing checking account.

Have you seen the interest on a checking account? If the IRS can actually do something with that money for those few months, I can wait to deposit it into my IRA until after the return check comes and not lose a couple of dollars.

 

[txflyer]

Try writing them a check for 2.1 million then come talk cuss words to me.

 

[Henning]

Try writing them a check for 2.1 million then come talk cuss words to me.

If you're writing the IRS a check for $2.1MM it's difficult to find pity.

 

[txflyer]

If you're writing the IRS a check for $2.1MM it's difficult to find pity.

Everybody hates the man with the plane....

 

[rbridges]

AAh, government efficiency.

no kidding. If I ran my personal finances the way the govt does, I'd be homeless.

 

[EdFred]

If you're writing the IRS a check for $2.1MM it's difficult to find pity.

If he's writing a check for $2.1 million he also need a better tax guy.

 

[Bill Watson]

Why not just pay in the minimum amount they will allow then sign a check on 4/15. If I were king of America all taxes would be due in one lump sum on 4/15.

I'm just a simple salary guy but that's what I've done for years. I always owe at the end of the year and I like it that way.

If you "owe too much" they will hit you with fees. Ask how I know

It's always been a fear of mine but it's never happened. It's never been clear to me where they draw the line.

I used to be all about a refund when banks actually paid interest. Now I'm like whatever, since my bank pays out a whopping 0.00000000000000001% interest. The only difference between the gov't having it now, and me having it now is that I don't file a 1099-INT for $1.37 in interest.

It's not about interest earned for me, it's about what it costs me not to have that money. Finance people call it "opportunity costs", I generally call it "the interest I'd have to pay for borrowing that money".

 

[steingar]

I overpay every year. Too much of a pain to fix, and like everyone with the sense Odin gave a mole rat has said the interest doesn't amount to enough to justify the time spent in calculations. Life is too short, and I have far better things to do. Heck, even jerking off on this forum is better than that. Only people I know who get off on this stuff are accountants, and the ones I know are a truly boring lot.

 

[poadeleted21]

Have you seen the interest on a checking account? If the IRS can actually do something with that money for those few months, I can wait to deposit it into my IRA until after the return check comes and not lose a couple of dollars.

Sorry if I'm not shedding any tears for the IRS missing out on utilizing money that's not theirs.

If it were me, Id pay it all in on 4/15, everything, income, property, sales tax etc.. and not a day earlier. I could make a decent piece of cheese out of that.

If the gov required one lump sum on 4/15 there'd be a revolution on 4/16. Instead we have morons being happy about getting refunds.

 

[guardrail]

I used to be all about a refund when banks actually paid interest. Now I'm like whatever, since my bank pays out a whopping 0.00000000000000001% interest. The only difference between the gov't having it now, and me having it now is that I don't file a 1099-INT for $1.37 in interest.

The thought for most is that if you are getting a refund it is because you paid too much so the gov't was earning interest on that money that you could have been earning interest on.

I understand that but I think it s worth paying that interest for them to save up some of my money for me. I think the largest check I ever got back was 8k. I don't know how much interest I could have earned on that sum built over a 12 month period but I know I wouldn't have saved that money myself. I am not that good with money. I tend to spend it.

I did correct it down so it wouldn't be that high again. Right now I have it dialed in so my refunds are sub 1k and I am content with that.

I like the refund.

Fun with math time.....

He has $3k for a refund. After 12 months.

Average balance thru the year of $1500.

1% is $15 on the savings account you linked.

The checking accounts (as I was commenting on) is even worse, as it required $15k balance to get 0.60%.

For the $1500 balance, it was 0.10%, which would be less than $2 for the year.

Yes, still $2 is $2...

The

Maybe I'm not understanding, but I thought the $3000 is overpaid tax which means you could have been putting pretax money (up to the amount that would have yielded a $3k income tax) in tax deferred retirement account (401(k) or IRA)/Health Savings Account; so you are actually putting more in and lowering your overall tax base. That is of course unless you are already maxing out your retirement/health savings accounts.

 

[EdFred]

It's not about interest earned for me, it's about what it costs me not to have that money. Finance people call it "opportunity costs", I generally call it "the interest I'd have to pay for borrowing that money".

I'm no longer borrowing money. It's not costing me anything.

That is of course unless you are already maxing out your retirement/health savings accounts.

I am.

So for me, it's really only costing me $1.50 or so on the interest.

 

[comanchepilot]

The solution is not running their calculator but sitting down in December, estimating your income for the year, estimating all of your deductions and determining what your taxable income will be in the following year - then dividing by the number of wage payments - entering 'Exempt' on the W-4 and then entering the 'additional amount withheld per pay period' as whatever the remainder is after your division. . . .

THEN you'll be with 5% of the net at the end. Like gas, you might want to add 5% for wife and kids.

 

[garyb]

Depends - if you automatically deposit x% of your income into a savings account, does it come out before or after taxes? That can make a difference.

Personally, I'd rather have the cash in hand, even if I spend it all or get 0.01% interest in the bank, than get it all back from the IRS.

Not to mention, if you're a little short and need the cash, you can get it right now, instead of 'applying' for it.

 

[garyb]

Why not just pay in the minimum amount they will allow then sign a check on 4/15. If I were king of America all taxes would be due in one lump sum on 4/15.

And if I were king, you wouldn't even pay an income tax.

 

[mercurial]

If you get within +-$3000 of your actual tax liability, that IS running a 0 balance with the IRS, for all intents and purposes. If you are concerned about getting it closer, you would likely be better served directing that same attention towards making a little more money.

 

[FlySince9]

I dont mind a refund.

I feel like it is a little savings account with money I would have otherwise blown on stuff I probably wouldn't remember.

F'n government has enough money without borrowing mine!

 

[poadeleted21]

And if I were king, you wouldn't even pay an income tax.

I have a feeling my way would lead to that very fast.

 

[JoseCuervo]

I have a feeling my way would lead to that very fast.

How would you finance your Kingdom without taxing your peasants?

How are you going to spread enough money around to the poors to avoid a Marie Antoinette like situation with your melon rolling across the Central Plaza?

 

[Palmpilot]

Fun with math time.....

He has $3k for a refund. After 12 months.

Average balance thru the year of $1500.

1% is $15 on the savings account you linked.

That really shows why I have better things to do with my time than trying to minimize my annual tax refund. And like Ed, I'm not a borrower. If interest rates go back up, then I'll revisit that decision.

 

[txflyer]

If he's writing a check for $2.1 million he also need a better tax guy.

Estate tax my friend. There's no way around it.

When I give up the ghost, they'll do it all over again.

There soon will be the biggest wealth transfer the world has ever seen when the boomer's start kicking off.

 

[Henning]

Everybody hates the man with the plane....

Not hate, just more like a face palm.

 

[Henning]

Sorry if I'm not shedding any tears for the IRS missing out on utilizing money that's not theirs.

If it were me, Id pay it all in on 4/15, everything, income, property, sales tax etc.. and not a day earlier. I could make a decent piece of cheese out of that.

If the gov required one lump sum on 4/15 there'd be a revolution on 4/16. Instead we have morons being happy about getting refunds.

Why? it's the country that makes out. The better condition the country is in, the better you do.

 

[denverpilot]

Estate tax my friend. There's no way around it.



When I give up the ghost, they'll do it all over again.



There soon will be the biggest wealth transfer the world has ever seen when the boomer's start kicking off.

I will be polite and not share the number the Probate attorney said would trigger said tax, but that's a significant estate. Congratulations on your family actually achieving something worth taxing and not spending it all.

There's so much triple, quadruple... Keep going as high as you like... taxation going on, the politicians don't figure taxing it all again will bother anyone. Condolences on that part.

 

[txflyer]

I will be polite and not share the number the Probate attorney said would trigger said tax, but that's a significant estate. Congratulations on your family actually achieving something worth taxing and not spending it all.

There's so much triple, quadruple... Keep going as high as you like... taxation going on, the politicians don't figure taxing it all again will bother anyone. Condolences on that part.

Thanks, but they're not done with me yet ....

We filed the estate tax form almost one year ago this February and have not recieved a closing letter yet. The 2.1 was our estimate of what we owe based on discounts that we are applying for through a family LLP.

Did you know the IRS has a three year statute of limitations from the time you file an estate tax return until they must answer? So if you want your heirs to have immediate access to any money after you die with a taxable estate, an outright bequeath better be in there. Otherwise, the executor will hold everything until it's settled.

 

[Captain]

If you "owe too much" they will hit you with fees. Ask how I know

You owe too much. To fix that you now owe more. Next!

 

[denverpilot]

You owe too much. To fix that you now owe more. Next!

Spoken like a true liberal. Bwahaha.

 

[EdFred]

Estate tax my friend. There's no way around it.

When I give up the ghost, they'll do it all over again.

There soon will be the biggest wealth transfer the world has ever seen when the boomer's start kicking off.

Well, there is, you just have to put everything in joint ownership before death and hope the kids don't try and screw you out of it before you die.

 

[denverpilot]

Well, there is, you just have to put everything in joint ownership before death and hope the kids don't try and screw you out of it before you die.

Or just kill you and see if they can get away with it. LOL. Titles can have survivorship rights attached and financial accounts can have Payable on Death notices or death beneficiaries.

Letting something get all the way to a Will is the hardest and most expensive way to transfer many things. Certainly the one that'll cost the most in attorney fees.

 

[txflyer]

Re: ******* IRS

Well, there is, you just have to put everything in joint ownership before death and hope the kids don't try and screw you out of it before you die.

Nope.

Joint ownership does not negate estate taxes. It's much more complicated than that.

Like they say, talk to an estate tax attorney who will charge you $500/hr. to tell you how much you're going to owe ....

 

[EdFred]

Re: ******* IRS

Nope.

Joint ownership does not negate estate taxes. It's much more complicated than that.

Like they say, talk to an estate tax attorney who will charge you $500/hr. to tell you how much you're going to owe ....

Like I said before, you need a new tax guy. Joint ownership eliminates an estate. If you have an estate you're doing it wrong.

 

[txflyer]

Re: ******* IRS

Like I said before, you need a new tax guy. Joint ownership eliminates an estate. If you have an estate you're doing it wrong.

If you're correct, I think I'll stomp about 2.1 million out of my tax guy's ass...

You don't have to worry about estate tax at all unless your assets exceed five million.

 

[EdFred]

Re: ******* IRS

If you're correct, I think I'll stomp about 2.1 million out of my tax guy's ass...

You don't have to worry about estate tax at all unless your assets exceed five million.

It has to be set up correctly before there is a death. Once you get to the execution of the will, well you're kinda stuck.

 

[txflyer]

Re: ******* IRS

It has to be set up correctly before there is a death. Once you get to the execution of the will, well you're kinda stuck.

Generation skipping Trusts are the only vehicle I know of that can delay taxes, but someone down the road eventually pays the piper.

The estate tax law is pretty straightforward. Anything over five million starts owing estate tax on every dollar.

There is no way around it but you can mitigate it with a limited partnership that can apply for discounts upon a partner's death. It is up to the IRS to either allow or disallow those discounts.

 

[SkyHog]

Re: ******* IRS

Lol. ******* is censored now? Which word warrants censoring? God, or damn?

How about ******mit?

Does it only apply to god when capitalized? What about Jesusdammit or jesusdamn? Allahdamn? Gawddamn?

 

[Matthew]

Re: ******* IRS

Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious?

 

[denverpilot]

Re: ******* IRS

Like I said before, you need a new tax guy. Joint ownership eliminates an estate. If you have an estate you're doing it wrong.

It actually doesn't if the Estate's Gross Assets exceed roughly $5.4M in 2015. Lower amounts for years before this year.

Only a surviving spouse can receive real estate with a chance of having the estate tax lifted. There's other deductions from the Gross like a working farm that's worth millions usually can deduct operating expenses from its taxable value. Mortgages and debts can also offset the taxable value.

The estate tax is truly impressive. One of the most blatant double taxations ever created.

$500/hr is a bit steep for even the best Probate attorney though. At least my guy charged a fraction of that per hour but then played games like saying it took him 0.9 of an hour to answer individual emails.

I laughed. He can only get through 8 emails a day if he doesn't break for lunch, I guess.

 

[EdFred]

Re: ******* IRS

It actually doesn't if the Estate's Gross Assets exceed roughly $5.4M in 2015. Lower amounts for years before this year.

Only a surviving spouse can receive real estate with a chance of having the estate tax lifted. There's other deductions from the Gross like a working farm that's worth millions usually can deduct operating expenses from its taxable value. Mortgages and debts can also offset the taxable value.

The estate tax is truly impressive. One of the most blatant double taxations ever created.

$500/hr is a bit steep for even the best Probate attorney though. At least my guy charged a fraction of that per hour but then played games like saying it took him 0.9 of an hour to answer individual emails.

I laughed. He can only get through 8 emails a day if he doesn't break for lunch, I guess.

I'm looking at it many years ahead of the death. Start divesting to your kids (or whoever) early enough so that when you die your estate isn't above 5 million. Maybe they needed a better planner. The tax guy was a band aid on a severed artery.

 

[txflyer]

Re: ******* IRS

I'm looking at it many years ahead of the death. Start divesting to your kids (or whoever) early enough so that when you die your estate isn't above 5 million. Maybe they needed a better planner. The tax guy was a band aid on a severed artery.

I sat here and typed out a long explanatory post then just thought **** it....

This is a pilot's forum.