Mystery Object, help identify?

poadeleted21

poadeleted21

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Aug 18, 2011
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My granddad had a seafood company. He'd go to the docks and have them dump truck loads of shrimp into his truck.

He picked the shrimp up around New Orleans.

One load of shrimp contained this.

I've always wondered what it was. Any ideas?

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Looks like a weight of some kind? Just a WAG.

The green tarnish tells me it is brass, or bronze.

Certainly, a very interesting shape!
 
Geico266 said:
Looks like a weight of some kind? Just a WAG.

The green tarnish tells me it is brass, or bronze.

Certainly, a very interesting shape!
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It is heavy.

You mean it's not solid gold????? :sad:

I always assumed it was bonze. We use it for a door stop.

I figure the odds of someone on POA knowing what a random hunk of bronze pulled from the ocean is, is a long shot. But I'm bored tonight and always wondered what the damn thing is.

What are the iron crosses all about? German?
 
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It's got the German iron cross type marking on it. I know they used bronze for some components on early uboats but not on the later ones. I would reccomend taking it to someone who knows about that sort of thing. You might have something really cool there.
 
DavidWhite said:
It's got the German iron cross type marking on it. I know they used bronze for some components on early uboats but not on the later ones. I would reccomend taking it to someone who knows about that sort of thing. You might have something really cool there.
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I just need to take it to Vegas where there's an expert on everything within a 15 minute drive of "Gold and Silver Pawn"?

Seriously, I'd take it to someone because it's been holding my doors open for 20 years and I've always wanted to know what it was.
 
The Maltese Cross is still in use by Lloyd's as a mark of survey. To me it looks like the shoe fitting gudgeon broke off the bottom of a rudder post probably off an old sailboat.
 
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Henning said:
The Maltese Cross is still in use by Lloyd's as a mark of survey. To me it looks like the shoe fitting gudgeon broke off the bottom of a rudder post probably off an old sailboat.
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I thought the shoe-fitting gudgeon was that grumpy old man Mom used to take me to at the Buster Brown store when I was a kid.
 
It looks like a disconnocted sliderator that was used to jim the vallast bilb.
 
The left end of the first picture looks somewhat like the attachment end of some sort of turbine blade. The turbine disc has matching profiles and the blades are slid in. The shape of the "blade" and the material are not consistent with a steam turbine. Could be part of some sort of water wheel.
 
I have to go with Henning also.
 
bartmc said:
What are the iron crosses all about? German?
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Maybe, but I doubt it. They look to be acceptance, or proof stamps. They are Maltese Crosses used by many nations around the world. Spain, Portugal, Germany, numerous Baltic states, etc. The number would suggest either a part number, or a serial number. The proof marks might indicate military equipment, or possibly something to do with weights and measures. The double crosses indicate it was proofed by two separate individuals. This means the either the part was very important, like weights and measures, or it was part of a bureaucratic organization, like the military.

I have no idea what the part is though. Is the blind hole threaded? It is clearly designed to engage with another part and it would have had a rotational, torquing movement. Made of bronze, so likely it worked at, or below the water line. Does it have any wear marks on it? The machining and stamping look to me to be mid 19th century to early 20th century.

It is a mystery. More pictures please!:)
 
Actually, this is a footed cross (which the Iron cross is but one use of). It isn't properly a maltese cross which has facets on the points of the cross.

Still I agree, could be an inspector or maker's mark of some sort.
 
flyingron said:
Actually, this is a footed cross (which the Iron cross is but one use of). It isn't properly a maltese cross which has facets on the points of the cross.

Still I agree, could be an inspector or maker's mark of some sort.
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It's a standard mark of survey in the marine industry and is referred to as a Maltese Cross. You will even find it on a vessel's classification document papers if it is a surveyed class. Example, you can have a AA100 class document, if it has no cross that means that all the materials used in the construction of that vessel are approved for that classification. If it has the cross that means not only are the materials from approved supply, but the construction was surveyed at points throughout the process to assure that the materials are properly in place.

In this case the crosses indicate that the part passed survey for use on a classed vessel.
 
Looks like a casting sprue for some bronze part which was sawed off at the blind hole. One end with the little pucker was where the bonze was poured into the mold.
 
Sleepingsquirrel said:
Looks like a casting sprue for some bronze part which was sawed off at the blind hole. One end with the little pucker was where the bonze was poured into the mold.
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The blind hole is where it drops onto the pintle. The narrow part of the body fits up into a slot in the bottom of the rudder, the fat part supports the weight of the rudder. It's an old design, likely from Pre WWII.
 
Henning said:
The blind hole is where it drops onto the pintle. The narrow part of the body fits up into a slot in the bottom of the rudder, the fat part supports the weight of the rudder. It's an old design, likely from Pre WWII.
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I kind of get that, but how does it fasten to the rudder? I'm assuming the rudder was made of wood, so without any holes for screws, or nails, how was this thing securely fastened? Is that what the tab on the top (?) is for? Does it engage with a carved slot in the wood? There is also a strange cavity opposite the blind hole, was that to accommodate a type of wedge, nail or spike?
 
You could be right , but I'm sticking with sprue.

Sprues can serve as filters, heat sinks, and as feeders. Bronze in particular has a high shrinkage rate as it is cooling; a sprue can continue to provide molten metal to the casting, provided it is large enough to retain its heat and stay liquid, as metal in the main casting cools and shrinks. The design of the sprue and runner system can be also utilized to trap unwanted dross and sand from continuing into the main cavity; this may include adding porous material to the runners, or designing the sprue to eject the dross to the side of the sprue using cyclonic separation.
 
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Dav8or said:
I kind of get that, but how does it fasten to the rudder? I'm assuming the rudder was made of wood, so without any holes for screws, or nails, how was this thing securely fastened? Is that what the tab on the top (?) is for? Does it engage with a carved slot in the wood? There is also a strange cavity opposite the blind hole, was that to accommodate a type of wedge, nail or spike?
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It doesn't need to be secured directly, it's a captured system.
 
Dav8or said:
Maybe, but I doubt it. They look to be acceptance, or proof stamps. They are Maltese Crosses used by many nations around the world. Spain, Portugal, Germany, numerous Baltic states, etc. The number would suggest either a part number, or a serial number. The proof marks might indicate military equipment, or possibly something to do with weights and measures. The double crosses indicate it was proofed by two separate individuals. This means the either the part was very important, like weights and measures, or it was part of a bureaucratic organization, like the military.

I have no idea what the part is though. Is the blind hole threaded? It is clearly designed to engage with another part and it would have had a rotational, torquing movement. Made of bronze, so likely it worked at, or below the water line. Does it have any wear marks on it? The machining and stamping look to me to be mid 19th century to early 20th century.

It is a mystery. More pictures please!:)
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The hole's not threaded. I'll take some more pictures tonight.
 
Sleepingsquirrel said:
You coudl be right , but I'm sticking with sprue.

Sprues can serve as filters, heat sinks, and as feeders. Bronze in particular has a high shrinkage rate as it is cooling; a sprue can continue to provide molten metal to the casting, provided it is large enough to retain its heat and stay liquid, as metal in the main casting cools and shrinks. The design of the sprue and runner system can be also utilized to trap unwanted dross and sand from continuing into the main cavity; this may include adding porous material to the runners, or designing the sprue to eject the dross to the side of the sprue using cyclonic separation.
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Why would a sprue be machined, numbered and have acceptance stamps on it?
 
I thought of that as well, and think the actual part might not tolerate the imperfection of alloy marking and acceptance stamp.
It would be the ugliest boat part I've ever seen , however sprues are not constrained to be beautiful ,just make a part which can be finished .

For the mass of the part the hole is just seems too small for a rudder gudgeon.
 
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Dav8or said:
Meaning the metal is encased in wood?
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Correct, at least for the most part, also that there is a pintle in the skeg or keelson that this sits on to keep it from dropping, and another inverted variant on the top to keep the rudder from floating off.
 
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Sleepingsquirrel said:
You coudl be right , but I'm sticking with sprue.

Sprues can serve as filters, heat sinks, and as feeders. Bronze in particular has a high shrinkage rate as it is cooling; a sprue can continue to provide molten metal to the casting, provided it is large enough to retain its heat and stay liquid, as metal in the main casting cools and shrinks. The design of the sprue and runner system can be also utilized to trap unwanted dross and sand from continuing into the main cavity; this may include adding porous material to the runners, or designing the sprue to eject the dross to the side of the sprue using cyclonic separation.
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Could be, but it's not.:D
 
Can you show us an example of what you described?
 

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Sleepingsquirrel said:
Can you show us an example of what you described?
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He came up with the closest picture in post 12, this system hasn't been in use in a long time so there is nothing in a current catalogue. When you need to reproduce stuff like this you have to get it custom cast.
 
Sleepingsquirrel said:
You could be right , but I'm sticking with sprue.

Sprues can serve as filters, heat sinks, and as feeders. Bronze in particular has a high shrinkage rate as it is cooling; a sprue can continue to provide molten metal to the casting, provided it is large enough to retain its heat and stay liquid, as metal in the main casting cools and shrinks. The design of the sprue and runner system can be also utilized to trap unwanted dross and sand from continuing into the main cavity; this may include adding porous material to the runners, or designing the sprue to eject the dross to the side of the sprue using cyclonic separation.
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I have done enough sand casting to know a Sprue would be more mis- shapened then the first pic in the thread.. Also, they would NOT go the the extent of placing a horizontal hole in a Sprue as that would be a wasted motion... The Sprue is the fill hole to the mold,,, the risers, your pic called them vents, but they operate the same.. Those cast offs would be even more irregular and since both the Sprue and risers get tossed back into the kettle to melt down for the next pour, who cares what they look like, or why would they stamp proof sigs or tracable numbers on it.... IMHO..
 
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Some more pics

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