My engine swallowed my air filter

SixPapaCharlie

SixPapaCharlie

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Plane is in annual. I says to the guy.
Let's check the air filter, I reached in a few months back and it was all gummed up and gross.

A&P says "my guy musta took it out. Its not there.
On a closer look, there is about a golf ball size hole missing from the center of the air filter.

Soooooo.
I have been flying this thing possibly for a few months now with an engine that has ingested some portion of my air filter. Does the engine just chew this up, burn it to bits and spit it out?

Or does it get stuck in the engine somewhere and just live there now filtering whatever comes its way?
 
My MX said he has flushed everything possible and nothing obvious has come out.
He said we might see evidence of it in the oil sample.
 
Could be lodged in the inlet to carb or intake tubes, but likely spit out somewhere over the DFW area. Easy to check if it’s still lodged.

Ever hear a stumble in the engine?

Possible it’s just been eroding bit by bit rather than a whole chunk at once.

EDIT- I see you’ve check it all out.
 
Maybe it was a bird strike.....
 
I’ve seen a few of the foam brackett filters do this. The only other places I’ve seen it happen are on foam powersports filters, where the filter essentially rotted from age and the oil that was applied to it.

How long has it been since the filter element was replaced? The ICAs require the filters to be replaced annually.
 
Get a $25 bore camera for your phone, poke it down there and look. I would also look at the cylinder and valves for damage. If they look ok, I'd be comfortable flying it. Next time something is gummed up and gross, get it checked out. Your airplane too.
 
Yes, it is one of the foam ones.
I believe It is supposed to be replaced every 100 hours or biannually.
I don't have the book in front of me.

It was replaced in 2017
 
i'd run a borescope camera (like $40) all the way from filter to carb, and then from carb into the intakes as far as I could.

PS, don't you wish the pilots could change air filters as preventive MX so you could have just changed it when you saw that it was getting dirty?
 
Look at the K&N type filters.... much better than the foam gooie ones.... I clean and service mine at annual and it is not an issue.....
 
MIFlyer said:
i'd run a borescope camera (like $40) all the way from filter to carb, and then from carb into the intakes as far as I could.

PS, don't you wish the pilots could change air filters as preventive MX so you could have just changed it when you saw that it was getting dirty?
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PSS> can you dream up a scenario where anyone would find out or even care if they did find out if an owner changed his air filter using the proper part?
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Yes, it is one of the foam ones.
I believe It is supposed to be replaced every 100 hours or biannually.
I don't have the book in front of me.

It was replaced in 2017
Click to expand...

Here's the installation guide for the filter that would likely be installed on your airplane. It suggests 100 hours or annually. One thing I hadn't considered but may be a possibility in both your situation and the other one I've seen is that a backfire may have happened, which could cause problems with the foam filters.

http://www.brackettaerofilters.com/installationsheets/BA-4210 Inst Sheet.pdf
 
Salty said:
PSS> can you dream up a scenario where anyone would find out or even care if they did find out if an owner changed his air filter using the proper part?
Click to expand...

Any mechanic with half a brain could likely tell if the filter has been replaced more recently than 12 months ago, assuming the airplane has gotten any real use. If they care or not is another story.
 
Maybe it was a Bat...


images
 
mondtster said:
Any mechanic with half a brain could likely tell if the filter has been replaced more recently than 12 months ago, assuming the airplane has gotten any real use. If they care or not is another story.
Click to expand...
So I can’t let another mechanic work on my plane? Why would they even think about that?
 
I would not purposely run a foam filter through the induction system on my airplane, but I don't think running a chunk of one through there would be a major problem. I'd run a camera up through the induction side of the engine or would pull the induction tubes just to make sure the foam isn't lodged in there waiting for a bad moment to pop loose. I suspect it came loose and got eaten by the engine and is now a combustion product causing accelerated global warming.
 
There should be a metal screen behind that filter, as part of the filter housing, to prevent this sort of thing. Is the screen gone? If so, the whole housing needs replacing. If it's still there, and secure, the filter probably broke up in tiny bits a little at a time, and there won't be any hassle from it. The unfiltered air would cause more trouble.
 
mondtster said:
That's not what your previous post that I quoted suggested.
Click to expand...
The point I’m making is that a mechanic Is not going to assume nobody else worked on the plane since he did. It wouldn’t even occur to them.
 
Salty said:
The point I’m making is that a mechanic Is not going to assume nobody else worked on the plane since he did. It wouldn’t even occur to them.
Click to expand...

And my point is, it is typically very obvious when something has been worked on more recently than the last annual, and if there isn't a proper return to service what is the mechanic to assume? Most mechanics aren't dumb; they have a pretty good idea what goes on behind closed doors if they know their customers at all. Whether they decide to continue being involved in situations like that is up to them. It may cost them one day, but probably not with simple stuff such as air filters.
 
mondtster said:
And my point is, it is typically very obvious when something has been worked on more recently than the last annual, and if there isn't a proper return to service what is the mechanic to assume? Most mechanics aren't dumb; they have a pretty good idea what goes on behind closed doors if they know their customers at all. Whether they decide to continue being involved in situations like that is up to them. It may cost them one day, but probably not with simple stuff such as air filters.
Click to expand...
If there is a mechanic out there searching logs for a return to service because the air filter looks too new, then that is not going to be my IA. That’s messed up. He won’t have time to do many annuals like that in a year. Takes time to use an anal probe that thoroughly.
 
Salty said:
If there is a mechanic out there searching logs for a return to service because the air filter looks too new, then that is not going to be my IA. That’s messed up. He won’t have time to do many annuals like that in a year. Takes time to use an anal probe that thoroughly.
Click to expand...

Considering the IA owns the sins that happened before they signed the plane off, why would you expect an IA to turn a blind eye to things? Especially if they know something happened that wasn't documented?

An air filter may be something minor, and I suspect most IAs would just ignore things like that. But an IA is going to have to draw the line somewhere. I've fired owners for less, but I don't need the work either.
 
mondtster said:
Considering the IA owns the sins that happened before they signed the plane off, why would you expect an IA to turn a blind eye to things? Especially if they know something happened that wasn't documented?

An air filter may be something minor, and I suspect most IAs would just ignore things like that. But an IA is going to have to draw the line somewhere. I've fired owners for less, but I don't need the work either.
Click to expand...
You’re not getting my logs anyway, so it’s moot. I’d sit with you and go over ADs, which are very organized and easy to verify and my logs go with me. You would not have an opportunity to look for nonsense that is not your job as an IA. You are not an enforcement officer. The aircraft is either currently airworthy or it is not. That is your only job. You are not the pope of past sins.
 
Salty said:
You’re not getting my logs anyway, so it’s moot. I’d sit with you and go over ADs, which are very organized and easy to verify and my logs go with me. You would not have an opportunity to look for nonsense that is not your job as an IA. You are not an enforcement officer. The aircraft is either currently airworthy or it is not. That is your only job. You are not the pope of past sins.
Click to expand...

Believe that if you want, but it's not true and the FAA will tell you that.
 
mondtster said:
Believe that if you want, but it's not true and the FAA will tell you that.
Click to expand...
Will do. Thanks. Also thanks for not being my IA.

Just curious how would you do an annual on an aircraft with a missing logbook. I’ve seen it done with FAA blessing. But not possible with your ridiculously draconian approach.
 
Also, just curious how you would deal with a plane in for annual that had, let’s say obviously had a new tube and tire installed on a main wheel, but no entry in the log. Exactly what would you do?
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Plane is in annual. I says to the guy.
Let's check the air filter, I reached in a few months back and it was all gummed up and gross.

A&P says "my guy musta took it out. Its not there.
On a closer look, there is about a golf ball size hole missing from the center of the air filter.

Soooooo.
I have been flying this thing possibly for a few months now with an engine that has ingested some portion of my air filter. Does the engine just chew this up, burn it to bits and spit it out?

Or does it get stuck in the engine somewhere and just live there now filtering whatever comes its way?
Click to expand...
How do you know it didn't simply back fire and burn a hole in the filter? Pretty typical of the Brackett foamy.
 
Tom-D said:
How do you know it didn't simply back fire and burn a hole in the filter? Pretty typical of the Brackett foamy.
Click to expand...

I don't
Until your post, I didn't know that was an option.

I am not aware of my plane ever backfiring though.
 
Salty said:
Will do. Thanks. Also thanks for not being my IA.

Just curious how would you do an annual on an aircraft with a missing logbook. I’ve seen it done with FAA blessing. But not possible with your ridiculously draconian approach.
Click to expand...

Thanks for not being my customer. I don't think a working relationship between us would last that long anyway.

Annuals on airplanes with missing logbooks aren't hard to do, but take time, which equals money, which many do not want to pay. The first thing to learn about is document retention and what documents are actually needed. It ain't what most people think, and I couldn't care less about seeing a log entry for an oil change or annual inspection from 50 years ago. What needs to be seen is evidence of AD compliance (the AD compliance should be verified anyway so the paperwork doesn't mean a ton to me) and documentation of repairs or alterations. If that paperwork is missing it needs to be generated before continuing, which can be done.

If you want fun, try doing some aircraft imports. You'll effectively get to start from scratch and have an opportunity to generate paperwork for things other people did in other countries without proper documentation to get it legal in the US. It happens all the time, in fact I'm doing another one now.
 
Salty said:
You’re not getting my logs anyway,.
Click to expand...
So you take your aircraft some where else.
Why would you trust your aircraft with some you wouldn't trust your logs to.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I don't
Until your post, I didn't know that was an option.

I am not aware of my plane ever backfiring though.
Click to expand...
Most pilots never know when they back fire, most times it is an induction fire that doesn't make much noise.
 
Other than bad timing, what can cause an intake backfire? Your engine is carbureted, correct?
 
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