My ArtCraft Paint Experience

[NotarPilot]

I’m writing this to share my somewhat disappointing experience with ArtCraft Paint based in Santa Maria, CA. I wish I didn’t have to write this but had I known what was about to happen I would have chosen another paint shop. I’m writing this so others, who may be considering having their plane painted, will be better informed on what they might expect. I will attempt to write an honest, unbiased review, providing facts and leaving out emotion.

I know this is a long read, and a bit verbose, so I’ll summarize my positive and negative experiences here for those who don’t feel like reading my entire dissertation.

Positives
1. Excellent work and craftsmanship.
2. Experienced team of painters who know what they’re doing.

Negatives
1. Poor planning by management. They didn’t order my windows until after I dropped off my plane creating a significant delay.
2. Poor communication with me, the customer, with the progress of my airplane.
3. Completion dates were delayed 3 times from March 6th, March 14th, March 18th and finally to March 31st.
4. Phone calls and emails were not returned numerous times.
5. More than 6 weeks after dropping off my airplane, the owner of ArtCraft called me to tell me they miscalculated the cost of paint and wanted me to pay more money than agreed on because she realized she was going to lose money on my airplane. I refused to pay more money than we agreed on.
6. After the the phone call it seemed like progress on my airplane slowed even further.

Summary: 2021 was a difficult year for my airplane. I had the fuel tanks resealed and that job went almost 3 weeks longer than the 4 weeks I was told it should take. The day I picked up my airplane, the engine basically went Tango Uniform 5 min after take off, with a spalled cam lobe, which necessitated that I replace my high time (nearly 1,800 hour) engine. I was planning to fly it directly to the ArtCraft from having the tanks resealed on May 31, 2021, but that didn’t happen.

I rearranged the project schedule to get the paint done after avionics, which was scheduled after the engine replacement. Avionics was supposed to take about 8 to 10 weeks and ended up taking closer to 14 weeks.

I finally got to drop off my plane at ArtCraft on Monday, Jan 24th, 2022. The plan was to paint it with an all metallic paint and replace all of the windows. Upon dropping it off I went over the plane with Sales Manager Brenda, Shop Manager Manny and Vice President Alex. They explained the process of what they were going to do with the airplane. Brenda assured me that my plane would be ready in 6 weeks (March 7, 2022). I told them I needed the plane back by March 14th for my scheduled annual inspection scheduled to begin that day. She said it shouldn’t be a problem.

I don’t like to pester people when they’re working on my plane so I didn’t call for a while. I didn’t hear anything from the shop for several weeks. On February 23rd, I contacted ArtCraft to get an update. I spoke with Brenda and was told there was a delay on my plane because the supplier of the windows had a longer than expected lead time. Brenda tells me they didn’t order the windows until AFTER I dropped off my airplane. I’m confused as to why the windows were not ordered and received prior to dropping off my airplane despite the fact I put a 10% deposit of $2300, well in advance of my drop-off, which would have covered the cost of the windows. Further perplexing to me was, with all the supply chain issues since 2020, they didn’t take this into account and order the windows in advance? At this point, I learn that 4 weeks into the job the only progress on my airplane had been stripping the paint and that’s it. The windows needed to be installed before painting which meant the plane had yet to be painted. At this point there’s not much I can do so I’m forced to just accept it.

I’m also forced to call and get updates because no one from ArtCraft is keeping me in the loop and giving my any updates on whether the windows have been shipped or received. Somewhere around Feb 26th I’m finally told by Brenda that the windows have shipped from Pennsylvania, but they didn’t get a tracking number. Brenda says she would call the vendor and get a tracking number on the following day. Later, come to find out, the windows got delayed in transit and we’re briefly stuck in San Bernardino, CA.

March 1st I send an email asking for the update on the windows and receive no response. I send another email on March 2nd and Brenda responds that the tracking number shows them on schedule to be delivered by the end of the day. Again, no one communicates with me if they were delivered or not so I send another email on March 4th asking if the windows arrived yet. Brenda writes back saying the windows have arrived and the mechanics are working on it.

On March 8th I’m sent an email saying they windows are done and the plane will be masked for primer and the new anticipated deliver date is March 18th. Photos are attached, in the email, of my airplane stripped to bare aluminum and new windows installed.

On March 9th I receive a phone call from the owner of ArtCraft, Teresa Arredondo. Teresa tells me she has good news and bad news. She tells me the paint has increased in price to $5,000 (Remember, I have an all metallic design with a pearl white base) and she is going to lose $1,700 on painting my airplane. She asks if I would be willing to split the difference with her. I kindly explain to Teresa my disappointment on the windows having not been ordered prior to dropping off the airplane and had they been ordered there wouldn’t have been this delay. Teresa apologizes and says this was due to the supplier of the windows. She said the vendor was apologetic and gave her a 10% discount on the windows. I also explained that my avionics job went $9,000 over budget and there’s no more money.

She goes on to say that Brenda and Alex should never have given me the quote they did because of the cost of the paint being so high. I know metallic paint is expensive which is why the $18,500 quote for the paint job alone (excluding windows) seemed normal to me. Personally, I wasn’t impressed that she would lay blame on her employees but it’s her business and not mine. Personally, I wouldn’t have done that while talking to a customer.

Teresa asks me to reconsider but I decline to send anymore money. The total quote for the paint and windows was $22,395.01, which was more than other shops had quoted but I chose ArtCraft due to their reputation for quality craftsmanship. Teresa, sounding disappointed, ends the call with, “Okay, we’ll call you when it’s done.”

On Friday March 11th, I call again to get an update and speak with Alex. Alex, sounding less friendly this time, says they’ll get back to me.

On Monday March 14th I call again to get an update, as I had extended my drop off date for my annual to March 21st. This time Teresa answers the phone and said they were going to primer the plane that day and should start with the base coat within the next day. Teresa assures me the plane would be ready week. Teresa said someone would call me the following day with an update. The following day, no one called me. On Wednesday I call again and ask to speak to Brenda, for an update, but I’m told she’s not in the office. Thursday I call again and still cannot get a hold of Brenda. Friday, same thing, I’m told she was off.

On Monday March 21st at 1339, I call again and speak with Kim in Human Resources. She tells me Brenda is out to lunch but takes a message. I explain that I have been trying to get a hold of someone for a week with no success. She assures me she will give Brenda the message as soon as she walks in. I receive no call later that day. At 1637, just before closing, I call again and speak with Kim, she tells me Brenda went the the bank. I explain to Kim I’m simply trying to get an update on the status on my plane. I tell her I just need someone to walk into the hangar, look at my plane and tell me what the status is. Is it primered? Is it painted? Is it masked? Bare metal? Done? What? Kim is kind enough to get some info on my plane and walk to the hangar to check for me. She comes back to tell me the plane is “being primered.” So the information I received by Teresa on March 14th, that the plane was going to be primered that day, was not accurate.

By this point I’m starting to feel like my plane is almost being held as ransom as retribution for not agreeing to pay the extra money asked for by Teresa.

 

[NotarPilot]

On Tuesday evening of March 22nd I finally receive an email from Brenda with progress photos of my plane primered and another photo with the white base coat. I’m told the plane should be ready by April 1st, which would put me out of annual. I’m also given an apology by Brenda for the “miscommunication.” She informed me that she was told by Teresa that she would take over as the point of communication but acknowledged that it didn’t happen. I write back explaining my disappointment with how they are handling the situation and how I felt like I was being ignored. I also informed her, again, that my plane would be out of annual on April 1st. I inform Brenda I cannot accept the plane on April 1st and ask them to complete the job by March 31st, so I can fly it back legally and without having to go through the hurdles of getting a ferry permit.

On Wednesday evening at 8 pm I receive an email from Teresa apologizing for the lack of communication but she offers no explanation as to why. She further states that she understands how I felt about being ignored and that she has been in a similar situation. She also stated that my plane would be ready on March 31 so I don’t have to worry about getting a ferry permit. I reply that I appreciate the communication and hope there are no further problems moving forward.

On Monday morning, March 28th at 9:15 am, I sent an email asking for an update to verify the plane would be ready on March 31st as I had to take the day off and make transportation plans. I asked for a same day response as I needed time to make my transportation plans. By 1647 there was no response so I decided to call being that the witching hour of 5 pm was fast approaching. I was able to get a hold of a Teresa who told me they were busy working on my plane. I told her I was calling to verify that my plane would be ready being that I had to confirm my transportation and day off from work. She said it would be ready. I asked if I should plan to arrive in the morning or afternoon and she said later in the day would be better. Not exactly words to instill confidence.

March 30th came and at almost 5pm I received an email from Brenda informing me that my plane was painted and only needed to be reassembled. She also sent me an invoice for the balance due and also informing me that my airplane would not be released until the wired funds were in their account. This was mentioned two more times in subsequent emails which became a concern on the off chance the wire didn’t go through that day for some reason. I sent off an email that same night to have the money wired to ArtCraft the following day.

On March 31st the funds were transferred and received by ArtCraft. I arrived at the shop and they were still finishing up some work on the plane, which included painting the Mooney logo on the tail. The plane was ready after about two hours.

I will say this, ArtCraft did a great job painting my plane. Their workmanship was top notch. The crew that does the actual labor of painting and working on the plane, were great. Flying the plane back home was great. The plane seemed to fly straighter than before. Before painting, it seemed to have a slight right drift when flying hands off.

I’m very happy with the paint job and quality of work. I’m just not so happy with the delays and being given the run around and times. The delays caused me to reschedule my annual inspection two or three times and due to the delays I will not be able to use my plane for an annual flight to Vegas I had plane for early April. Instead, I will be relegated to the bonds of earth until the annual is completed.

 

[Jeff Oslick]

I know several people who have had their planes painted by ArtCraft, and we he substantial touch up work done by them to correct problems with a paint job we had done by others that didn't hold up well.

The deposit was to hold your position in line, not to order the windows. If I had a paint shop, unless paid fully upfront, I would not order materials until the plane was in the shop, in case the owner backed out or had some serious mechanical issue that caused them to miss their drop off date.

They asked for less than a 5% bump in price, being willing to split their error with you. If you really didn't have another $850 to spend on this work, you probably should be in aircraft ownership. They deal with much larger $ work than your flivver, but they aren't in business to lose money. Frankly, I'm surprised that their quote was as low as you said, given what I know about the quality of their work. I would have expected at least $25k.

Could their communications have been better? Sure, but you certainly didn't enamor yourself to them as a great customer. From what I experienced getting our plane painted 17 years ago, and the horror stories I've heard about other paint shops, you got off very easy. Anticipating anything less than 12 weeks for a good paint job is silly, as it is common to find hidden problems once the paint is stripped.

 

[LesGawlik]

I can't understand how paint shops stay in business.

 

[Salty]

I know several people who have had their planes painted by ArtCraft, and we he substantial touch up work done by them to correct problems with a paint job we had done by others that didn't hold up well.

The deposit was to hold your position in line, not to order the windows. If I had a paint shop, unless paid fully upfront, I would not order materials until the plane was in the shop, in case the owner backed out or had some serious mechanical issue that caused them to miss their drop off date.

They asked for less than a 5% bump in price, being willing to split their error with you. If you really didn't have another $850 to spend on this work, you probably should be in aircraft ownership. They deal with much larger $ work than your flivver, but they aren't in business to lose money. Frankly, I'm surprised that their quote was as low as you said, given what I know about the quality of their work. I would have expected at least $25k.

Could their communications have been better? Sure, but you certainly didn't enamor yourself to them as a great customer. From what I experienced getting our plane painted 17 years ago, and the horror stories I've heard about other paint shops, you got off very easy. Anticipating anything less than 12 weeks for a good paint job is silly, as it is common to find hidden problems once the paint is stripped.

For her story to pan out, she would have been doing the job for free and because of the paint being more expensive now they will lose $1700 on the job. Either that or the paint went up more than $1700 from what they estimated. Sorry, but that’s BS.

The customer didn’t do anything to change the deal, so why should he pay more than the agreed upon amount? If paint prices are really that volatile then they should put something in the agreement calling it out - or don’t sell paint you haven’t bought yet. Duh.

What if the customer lost some money in the stock market? Could they then call and ask the painter to lower the cost to help him out with his loss? Would that be fair?

It’s not like there was a surprise that had anything to do with the customer. It’s not his job to cover their mistakes.

Reminds me of when Michael Scott called the customer and asked for more money for the paper he already delivered. And I thought nobody could be as ridiculous as that character in real life. Guess I was wrong.

 

[Jeff Oslick]

For her story to pan out, she would have been doing the job for free and because of the paint being more expensive now they will lose $1700 on the job. Either that or the paint went up more than $1700 from what they estimated. Sorry, but that’s BS.

The customer didn’t do anything to change the deal, so why should he pay more than the agreed upon amount? If paint prices are really that volatile then they should put something in the agreement calling it out - or don’t sell paint you haven’t bought yet. Duh.

Art Craft isn't some small operator. They honored the price, but they made an estimating error and politely asked the customer to split the difference. I work with a lot of high-dollar service and material contracts, and nickel-and-dime disagreements in price rarely end with a better product or service. It sucks that one customer had a bad experience, but their reputation speaks to this as an anomaly.

 

[Grum.Man]

It’s frustrating I’m sure but if I owned a business I don’t think I would order material in advance either. In todays world delays and up charges are to be expected. If they indeed quoted in correctly that’s on them. If the paint went up in price then I would expect to cover that. I could see communication towards the end being important, but it seems like you were a bit of a nag before that. Seems like they sent you updates at major milestones which is what counts. Sounds like in the end you were happy with the quality which means more than anything. Everything else seems pretty normal for operations post Covid.

 

[Half Fast]

Art Craft isn't some small operator. They honored the price, but they made an estimating error and politely asked the customer to split the difference. I work with a lot of high-dollar service and material contracts, and nickel-and-dime disagreements in price rarely end with a better product or service. It sucks that one customer had a bad experience, but their reputation speaks to this as an anomaly.

If Art Craft had made a mistake in their estimate in the other direction, learning that the paint would be less expensive than supposed, do you think they would have called the customer and lowered their price?

Sorry - I bid and managed many fixed-price contracts during my career. Fixed price means just that. If you blow your estimate, you eat it.

 

[Mtns2Skies]

To be honest that sounds extremely routine in aviation. Given that every other maintenance item you dealt with also ended up significantly over their time estimate I’m not sure why you’re singling out the paint shop. If those experiences didn’t teach you to build in significant contingency then well that’s kinda on you.

Frankly the positives said it all, a paint job is something that can last many many decades so doing a good job is most important regardless of an extra few weeks. I’m impressed that they continued to do an excellent job given how negative of a customer you were, furthermore you’re publicly airing grievances against this company which is pretty poor manners to do to a shop that did high quality work at a reasonable price.

-sincerely a dude waiting on his airplane to finish being painted.

 

[schmookeeg]

Wait, what? Avionics and fuel tank took nearly double their estimated times. Why are you slagging the paint shop for the same? Or will those be sequels we can look forward to? How long did the engine work take? It's every-flipping-thing in aviation right now. Hell it's every-flipping-thing with everything right now. I'm pleased to see a cashier who bothered to show up at Panera Bread and sell me an iced tea. I'm pleased when my UPS parcel is ooooonly a few days late instead of just lost and le shrug. The last two years have been a utter sh*t show for everything, and I'm amazed you seem to not have noticed and can still bang your spoon on the table and complain haughtily without adjusting your expectations and giving some grace.

They should have fired you when they offered you a new quote several months later and you refused -- you may have heard that some things are getting more expensive lately, and why should they eat an ancient quote? But they did! And you're still buttmad and salty? And trashing them online?! Unreal.

I bet they wish they had a do-over now. I wish they had a do-over. Customers like you are shoving our aviation service providers out of their thankless and underpaying professions.

 

[NotarPilot]

To be honest that sounds extremely routine in aviation. Given that every other maintenance item you dealt with also ended up significantly over their time estimate I’m not sure why you’re singling out the paint shop. If those experiences didn’t teach you to build in significant contingency then well that’s kinda on you.

Frankly the positives said it all, a paint job is something that can last many many decades so doing a good job is most important regardless of an extra few weeks. I’m impressed that they continued to do an excellent job given how negative of a customer you were, furthermore you’re publicly airing grievances against this company which is pretty poor manners to do to a shop that did high quality work at a reasonable price.

-sincerely a dude waiting on his airplane to finish being painted.

Wait, what? Avionics and fuel tank took nearly double their estimated times. Why are you slagging the paint shop for the same? Or will those be sequels we can look forward to? How long did the engine work take? It's every-flipping-thing in aviation right now. Hell it's every-flipping-thing with everything right now. I'm pleased to see a cashier who bothered to show up at Panera Bread and sell me an iced tea. I'm pleased when my UPS parcel is ooooonly a few days late instead of just lost and le shrug. The last two years have been a utter sh*t show for everything, and I'm amazed you seem to not have noticed and can still bang your spoon on the table and complain haughtily without adjusting your expectations and giving some grace.

They should have fired you when they offered you a new quote several months later and you refused -- you may have heard that some things are getting more expensive lately, and why should they eat an ancient quote? But they did! And you're still buttmad and salty? And trashing them online?! Unreal.

I bet they wish they had a do-over now. I wish they had a do-over. Customers like you are shoving our aviation service providers out of their thankless and underpaying professions.

Thank you for your candor but I’m guessing you didn’t read the whole thing and that’s fine, it’s a long read I know. My biggest gripe was the lack of communication. I wrote that I don’t like to pester shops when they’re working on my plane and let about 3 weeks go by without calling them. That’s when I called to get an update being that I had my annual scheduled and needed to know if I was going to make that date or not. My mechanic has a schedule to keep too and I was trying to be respectful of him as well.

Your opinion may be different than mine but communication went from bad to worse once I declined to pay more money than the original quote. I had no issues with communication from the other shops when I would call for an update or status report, which was not often. I still work full time so making plans for picking up the plane and flying it back, taking account checking weather, taking time off from work, etc, all need to be considered for planning purposes.

I’m not trying to “trash” the shop but had someone else had a similar experience I would have liked to know about it so I could either chose a different shop or adjusted accordingly. But I appreciate your opinion even as eloquently as you put it. You have a great evening.

 

[kmacht]

If the plane was already stripped before asking for more money my answer too would have been no. They put you in a situation where you couldn’t have terminated the contract and gone somewhere else. They should have understood their costs and requested adjustments before starting the work, not after.

 

[Racerx]

Was the original number exchanged a quote or an estimate? There's a difference. When I quote things... err estimate...there's fine print. And more fine print I've had to add because of the current site. Labor is labor and that rate doesn't change. But for me steel prices have been extremely volatile. Talking a 500% increase in some situations over a 4-6 month period. My estimates used to be valid for 30 days, now it's 48 hours and pending material availability. I do know right now as I just bought a large quantity of commercial paint that materials are difficult to come by. What used to be in stock is unobtanium. It appears your original quote/estimate was probably 2 years old by the time the paint shop had the plane. As a business owner I'm sympathetic to the other side of the story we don't get to hear.

 

[SkyDog58]

 

[Gary Ward]

I am not sure why you posted this?
Did you make a post for each other delay you experienced with the other service providers?
They politely asked you to split the difference on the cost overrun and you refused.
Why would YOU mention the avionic bill was higher than you anticipated, what does that got to do with them? Then why would you expect top notch service/communication from them. I think highly of them to finish your plane when they did and kept the quality up. From reading your post I would use them to paint my plane. They sound like a great company to me.

Sounds to me that the only thing they did wrong is notify you that the cost has gone up before they started on your plane? I doubt you will be getting a Xmas card from them this year?

 

[Salty]

Sounds to me that the only thing they did wrong is notify you that the cost has gone up before they started on your plane?

More than 6 weeks after dropping off my airplane, the owner of ArtCraft called me to tell me they miscalculated the cost of paint

 

[Gary Ward]

I meant to say NOT notify you before work started.
It sounds like they did screw that up? I would have worked with them on the cost because of today’s terrible situation in this country.

 

[Salty]

I meant to say NOT notify you before work started.
It sounds like they did screw that up? I would have worked with them on the cost because of today’s terrible situation in this country.

They told him this 6 weeks after they started.

 

[JEB]

You've been lit up by a bunch of people on both BeechTalk and here on POA. Might be time to take a step back, breath deep and consider that it might not be a problem with the vendor...

Thanks for letting us know that the quality of work was great. I recently contacted ArtCraft for a quote. I think I'll be including them in my list of the final two shops I'll choose from.

 

[geezer]

Looking at your dates makes a major difference in how I view your issue with the paint shop.

I was planning to fly it directly to the ArtCraft from having the tanks resealed on May 31, 2020, but that didn’t happen.

Their quote was more than 18 months old when you arrived. With the severe delay in delivering your Mooney, they still did fit you in.

Their failure to buy the plastic windows 18 months in advance, for a customer who delivered his plane 18 months late, is a joke. How much were you committed to pay if you never came?

When they actually needed paint for your plane, they got the new price, not the one that they made their quote on. No surprise there, but that many months in the Covid world is unfortunately normal. The big question for you, if they had rechecked the price of all the products to be used, and informed you that the bid for painting your plane had gone up by the amount of actual supply change, would you have climbed back in your Mooney, and gone home?

Advising you of a need to rebid after a more than year delay on your part would have been their proper route, but they simply accepted your plane and proceeded. The paint surprise is the result in your actions, not theirs. Your delay may not have been entirely your fault, but the cost of YOUR delay should fall on your shoulders.

By the way, a spalling camshaft should have shown up on your oil analysis long before failure. That engine should not have had a surprise failure.

 

[NotarPilot]

Looking at your dates makes a major difference in how I view your issue with the paint shop.



Their quote was more than 18 months old when you arrived. With the severe delay in delivering your Mooney, they still did fit you in.

Their failure to buy the plastic windows 18 months in advance, for a customer who delivered his plane 18 months late, is a joke. How much were you committed to pay if you never came?

When they actually needed paint for your plane, they got the new price, not the one that they made their quote on. No surprise there, but that many months in the Covid world is unfortunately normal. The big question for you, if they had rechecked the price of all the products to be used, and informed you that the bid for painting your plane had gone up by the amount of actual supply change, would you have climbed back in your Mooney, and gone home?

Advising you of a need to rebid after a more than year delay on your part would have been their proper route, but they simply accepted your plane and proceeded. The paint surprise is the result in your actions, not theirs. Your delay may not have been entirely your fault, but the cost of YOUR delay should fall on your shoulders.

By the way, a spalling camshaft should have shown up on your oil analysis long before failure. That engine should not have had a surprise failure.

Thank you for pointing out the typo but the date that I was supposed to fly it down was May 31st, 2021 and not May 31, 2020. I guess that makes a bit of a difference in the context of this narrative. Not sure if it changes your opinion but that’s my error in telling my story. I’ll edit that change.

In response to the other comments, by the time I was asked for more money the project was already running behind schedule and the communication was lacking, in my opinion. Would any of you go to a restaurant and wait an excessive amount of time for a meal only to have the waitress come and tell you the price of your steak went up and ask for more money?

 

[Lindberg]

Was the original number exchanged a quote or an estimate? There's a difference. When I quote things... err estimate...there's fine print. And more fine print I've had to add because of the current site. Labor is labor and that rate doesn't change. But for me steel prices have been extremely volatile. Talking a 500% increase in some situations over a 4-6 month period. My estimates used to be valid for 30 days, now it's 48 hours and pending material availability. I do know right now as I just bought a large quantity of commercial paint that materials are difficult to come by. What used to be in stock is unobtanium. It appears your original quote/estimate was probably 2 years old by the time the paint shop had the plane. As a business owner I'm sympathetic to the other side of the story we don't get to hear.

I would not expect a vendor to honor a two-year-old estimate (if that's the case). But the price is something that's worked out before work starts. If there are caveats like "depending on what's under the old paint," you say so up front or you eat it. If paint prices are that volatile, you hedge and buy the paint when you accept the deposit.

 

[NotarPilot]

I am not sure why you posted this?
Did you make a post for each other delay you experienced with the other service providers?
They politely asked you to split the difference on the cost overrun and you refused.
Why would YOU mention the avionic bill was higher than you anticipated, what does that got to do with them? Then why would you expect top notch service/communication from them. I think highly of them to finish your plane when they did and kept the quality up. From reading your post I would use them to paint my plane. They sound like a great company to me.

Sounds to me that the only thing they did wrong is notify you that the cost has gone up before they started on your plane? I doubt you will be getting a Xmas card from them this year?

The avionics shop and shop that did my tank reseal were both good at communicating and answering questions. Like I said, I try not to pester the shops I would just check in every week, at the most, towards the completion dates to make help make my plans for picking up the plane. I don’t think that’s unreasonable.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

My first thought was, if no written contract (seems like most shops, of all ilk - are smart enough to avoid them these days lol), I would at least send them a email of what was agreed upon.

“Prep/paint these parts; using ABC product, to be done by 4/2/2022, final total price of $00000.00”, espECIALLY if a huge time delay between first discussions, and aircraft being presented. AND insist on an email response from them as proof they at least received it. (that provides zero legal protection, but it can be harder for a person to lie to you later)

Not to say you are at fault here - as a biz owner, if I quote something then change that, it amounts to a bait & switch and I would never be offered work by that client again…and word would get out to all my other clients and adversely affect my reputation. (rightly so, and its actually a pretty good system!).
xxxxxx
So here I am, giving you advice, after doing something very similar with a very ‘reputable’ engine shop that did NOTHING with my engine for a YEAR despite me being absolutely the IDEAL customer (no pestering, no deviation from his plan, unrequested partial payment in advance, I found the “unobtainable” parts etc etc)…I finally airlined up to the city rented a pickup, absconded with (most) of my engine.

 

[Tantalum]

..everything I would have said has been said by the others.. I'll simply add that delays happen in these types of industries. The marina I worked in was home to a very high quality high end boat yard.. these guys worked on Hinckleys, Little Harbor, Oyster, Viking, etc. If you're not a boater and/or don't recognize those names you can just replace all those brands with "Gulftstream" .. anyway, their craftsmanship is known in the New England area but projects were routinely delayed, sometimes causing boaters to miss entire seasons (which is already short to begin with.. May - Sep realistically)

These are just people, no one is out there saying "I'm going to mess with this person and jeopardize my business" - communication goes both ways and sometimes delays are out of the hands of the contractor. I agree that communication is huge.. but it's a two way street.


PS, I'm not far from SMX.. I'll keep them in mind strictly based on your first two pros. That's worth it in my opinion

 

[Tantalum]

no pestering

I wonder.. if customer A isn't pestering but customers B, C, D, E, and F are all calling and emailing weekly then perhaps customer A may get a lower priority. I agree, no one wants to pester, but if everyone else is doing it then... ?

 

[Sifossifoco]

This is like one of those restaurants reviews where the food was very, very good but it wasn't served immediately, the portions were small and the waiter got fed up with the rude customer that didn't even tip. Those reviews say more about the customer than the business, and in fact I would use that paint shop based on what has been written here. I like that they still did a professional job even for a customer that they obviously could not like.

 

[NotarPilot]

I wonder.. if customer A isn't pestering but customers B, C, D, E, and F are all calling and emailing weekly then perhaps customer A may get a lower priority. I agree, no one wants to pester, but if everyone else is doing it then... ?

I often wonder the same thing, right? But it’s not in my nature to pester a shop unless I start to feel like I’m not being given the same priority as everyone else. That’s how I started to feel when they would not even return my calls or emails to get a status update on my plane. Then later being told the work (primering) that you were told was done last Monday was actually done this Monday.

My other big gripe is this… here we are two years into a pandemic, if you still want to call it that, and all we’ve heard about are supply chain issues and inflation, inflation, inflation. If a shop can’t figure out how to reign in some of these fluctuations by ordering ahead then I think I have a right to be frustrated. And the money wasn’t so much the issue. Had they been further along I would have likely been more agreeable to paying it.

Before I dropped off my plane at the avionics shop I was told I needed to pony up the money for all of the equipment so they can order it and have it ready on the shelf. I sent them something like $23,000 so they could order everything I needed for the project and once the plane was dropped off they were able to start within a few days. Had ArtCraft told me ahead of time, “Hey, prices are going up so we’d like to order your paint now and also the windows sometimes are experiencing delays so we’d like to get the money upfront so we can order those as well.” I would have been 100% agreeable to that. But because they don’t do that now I’m on the hook for any potential price increases? No, I’m sorry, that’s on them. If the price of the paint went down would we be having a conversation with the paint shop about getting a refund? We all know the answer to that. The owner told me the window vendor gave her a 10% discount on the windows because of the delay, so you think she extended that discount to me? Of course not and nor did I expect her to. What I did expect was for her to honor the price of the quote (not estimate) and do what she could to deliver it close to when they said they would.

I even remember saying during drop off, “Wow, you guys are going to do all that in six weeks?” And being confidently told, “Oh yeah.” Had those windows been ready to go they could have met that date easily being that they got the windows 3 weeks late and my plane was delivered back to me just over 3 weeks late.

 

[NoHeat]

… a very ‘reputable’ engine shop that did NOTHING with my engine for a YEAR despite me being absolutely the IDEAL customer (no pestering, no deviation from his plan, unrequested partial payment in advance, I found the “unobtainable” parts etc etc)…I finally airlined up to the city rented a pickup, absconded with (most) of my engine.

That sounds like an interesting story, and concise, too. Unlike the OP.

 

[Bell206]

As always, would be interesting to hear the shop's side of the discussion. Having been the "shop" before there's usually a few details left out of a one-sided discussion.

 

[NotarPilot]

As always, would be interesting to hear the shop's side of the discussion. Having been the "shop" before there's usually a few details left out of a one-sided discussion.

I would too. I had several questions as well but I’ll just let the rest go. The plane is back, they did a great job with the finished product. Apparently asked for status updates so you can decide if you’re going to make your next appointment makes you a difficult customer. Got it,

 

[Tantalum]

I often wonder the same thing, right? But it’s not in my nature to pester a shop unless I start to feel like I’m not being given the same priority as everyone else. That’s how I started to feel when they would not even return my calls or emails to get a status update on my plane. Then later being told the work (primering) that you were told was done last Monday was actually done this Monday.

It's worth setting reasonable expectations up front. A weekly check-in is not unreasonable. I think a lot of shops though are too invested in their work and generally lack on the 'PR' side of things, especially if they do good quality

As with anything there's a middle ground.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

As always, would be interesting to hear the shop's side of the discussion. Having been the "shop" before there's usually a few details left out of a one-sided discussion.

Mine said "Sorry". That's his side apparently.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

I wonder.. if customer A isn't pestering but customers B, C, D, E, and F are all calling and emailing weekly then perhaps customer A may get a lower priority.

I called or wrote weekly, with some gaps of 2-3 weeks - always a polite "hey how's it going?"
and often "I've found those parts you couldn't - they are on the way to you."

 

[Bell206]

makes you a difficult customer. Got it,

Never said that. Only that we have not heard from Brenda, Alex, Tereasa, Manny or Artcraft in general to get the whole story. Nothing more. If you think that makes you a difficult customer that's on you.

 

[NotarPilot]

Never said that. Only that we have not heard from Brenda, Alex, Tereasa, Manny or Artcraft in general to get the whole story. Nothing more. If you think that makes you a difficult customer that's on you.

No, I didn’t mean that you said that, I was replying to some of the other comments in this thread that said I was a difficult customer. My apologies if you thought that was directed at you.

 

[Country Flier]

Maybe this is just a "difference in personality" thing (with me owning a side business), but why are you calling for updates? I find this type of call nearly always has an ulterior motive...

 

[David Lloyd]

Seems like he is calling for an update because the company blew thru the last estimate.
I'm not going to bash the company. Good people, good work. But if things are going sideways for any reason, if dates are missed; a phone call, text or email should be made without the customer having to ask.

 

[Lindberg]

A lot of folks saying that delays and missed delivery dates are too be expected in this business. If everyone in PoA knows that, shouldn't this shop know it as well? They knew the customer had a hard deadline, and according to the story, promised several times to meet it. They could have said, "We can't guarantee when it will be finished, so you should get the annual first to be safe." Maybe the OP should have decided that on his own, but he wasn't wrong to rely on the shop's alleged promises.

 

[Mtns2Skies]

A lot of folks saying that delays and missed delivery dates are too be expected in this business. If everyone in PoA knows that, shouldn't this shop know it as well? They knew the customer had a hard deadline, and according to the story, promised several times to meet it. They could have said, "We can't guarantee when it will be finished, so you should get the annual first to be safe." Maybe the OP should have decided that on his own, but he wasn't wrong to rely on the shop's alleged promises.

The reality is that when you attach "aviation" to a business the dysfunction factor goes up about 100x. Scams are rampant and as are missed promises and shoddy work with no chance of reparation. I don't know what it is about this industry, it has some of the best people, but the businesses are stuck 30 years in the past almost universally. The best places I've worked in general aviation are generally worse than the worst places I've worked in other industries, and well the worst in aviation are just completely untenable, but they still exist.

So the reality is that we're grading on a curve. Given that curve, it sounds like the OP's shop experience was pretty darn good all things considered. If I didn't grade on a curve, then yeah that's atrocious, but then again so would every shop I've ever been to, or seen anyone else perform work at. The message I'm trying to convey is that you need to temper your expectations when working in this industry, and if the work was performed well and it didn't exceed 6 months of shop time, then well - it's a win.

Should it be that way? No. Should we accept it? No not really, but it is a reality.