Mustang belly lands DAB

Whew. You said Mustang and I thought "oh no, not another P-51".

No, it's just a Citation.

Was this intentional or just more stupid pilot tricks?
 
bflynn said:
Whew. You said Mustang and I thought "oh no, not another P-51".

No, it's just a Citation.

Was this intentional or just more stupid pilot tricks?
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If it helps, I think they intentionally wanted to land.
 
Oh no! Yikes!!!! A ‘small plane’ lands without its wheels, this has only happened.........8492927468 times before!

:rolleyes:
 
I had a friend on a commercial flight that diverted. Was hoping to figure out if the Citation pilot simply forgot.

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk
 
I get it, but generally there are props turning. Jet belly, not so frequent.
Ryanb said:
Oh no! Yikes!!!! A ‘small plane’ lands without its wheels, this has only happened.........8492927468 times before!

:rolleyes:
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Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk
 
Trucks were there very quickly, probably too quickly for unplanned.
 
I watched a P-51 land without one of the mains down a few years back at Oshkosh. The pilot did a beautiful job of holding it straight until the last possible minute and she didn't sustain must damage.
 
That was a hot landing for sure.
 
Salty said:
I don’t think of a citation when I see mustang.
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Same here, although I must say that I’d rather see a Citation get beat up than a P-51, if it had to happen...
 
Not sure how to check ATC archives but the answer I would imagine would be in there possibly on the circumstances surrounding this.
 
I don't see it mentioned here, but I've read it on several other boards that this was a checkride flight, and the landing in question was a no-flap landing that inadvertently turned into a no-gear landing as well.
 
midwestpa24 said:
I don't see it mentioned here, but I've read it on several other boards that this was a checkride flight, and the landing in question was a no-flap landing that inadvertently turned into a no-gear landing as well.
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I wonder how the ride went?
 
Kritchlow said:
I wonder how the ride went?
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I would think even the examiner will be getting looked at, for letting it go that far.

There was discussion among other jet guys on the other forum about how it could happen, and others that had almost done the same. You set up for a no-flap landing which is common on the checkride. You silence the gear warning because you "know" it should be going off right now because you are doing the no-flap landing. You later forget to lower the gear as the examiner is loading you up with distractions during the "emergency", especially single pilot in a jet. You comment on final how the airplane isn't slowing down like you are used to because of no flaps. It all works out, until the grinding begins.
 
midwestpa24 said:
I would think even the examiner will be getting looked at, for letting it go that far.

There was discussion among other jet guys on the other forum about how it could happen, and others that had almost done the same. You set up for a no-flap landing which is common on the checkride. You silence the gear warning because you "know" it should be going off right now because you are doing the no-flap landing. You later forget to lower the gear as the examiner is loading you up with distractions during the "emergency", especially single pilot in a jet. You comment on final how the airplane isn't slowing down like you are used to because of no flaps. It all works out, until the grinding begins.
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Still a mystery (for me) why you would silence the gear. Generally it goes off at some combination of flap setting, TLA, and altitude.
It just doesn’t make logical sense to silence it. Not from a safety standpoint, but rather if it was going to go off and you knew it that means you know you need the wheels down.
I don’t have Mustang time, but generally there is a second gear warning as part of the EGPWS. I don’t believe that one can be silenced, but I could be mistaken about that.
 
Kritchlow said:
Still a mystery (for me) why you would silence the gear. Generally it goes off at some combination of flap setting, TLA, and altitude.
It just doesn’t make logical sense to silence it. Not from a safety standpoint, but rather if it was going to go off and you knew it that means you know you need the wheels down.
I don’t have Mustang time, but generally there is a second gear warning as part of the EGPWS. I don’t believe that one can be silenced, but I could be mistaken about that.
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Maybe they got tired of listening to the warnings? Blah blah, gear, blah blah, I know what I'm doing airplane damnit..stop telling me words!!!
 
Caramon13 said:
Maybe they got tired of listening to the warnings? Blah blah, gear, blah blah, I know what I'm doing airplane damnit..stop telling me words!!!
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I guess what I’m having trouble with is in that situation the horn would be a “nuisance”, but rather it wouldn’t go off until needed. I can’t see the reason to silence it.
 
Kritchlow said:
I guess what I’m having trouble with is in that situation the horn would be a “nuisance”, but rather it wouldn’t go off until needed. I can’t see the reason to silence it.
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Agreed, seems like you would want to be paying attention to that stuff. Hasn't this kind of stuff happened with other gear up landings? People just ignore it and are shocked when they are grinding metal?
 
From the Citation Mustang Operating Manual found at: http://www.smartcockpit.com/docs/Citation_Mustang-Landing_Gear_and_Brakes.pdf

"Aural Warning The warning/caution advisory system provides a landing gear aural warning if one or more gear are not locked down and either of the following situations occurs:

• One or both throttles are retarded below approximately 85% N2 and airspeed is below 130 KIAS. Pressing the HORN SILENCE–PUSH button on the gear control panel (see Figure 14-7) silences this warning.

• Flaps are extended beyond the TAKE OFF AND APPROACH setting. In this situation,the aural warning cannot be silenced with the HORN SILENCE– PUSH button."

Our Ultra has an airspeed warning at 150 knots but as time goes by the warning starts coming on at slower speeds or not at all. Over 12 years we have probably replaced 2-3 of these switches.
 
Plano Pilot said:
• One or both throttles are retarded below approximately 85% N2 and airspeed is below 130 KIAS. Pressing the HORN SILENCE–PUSH button on the gear control panel (see Figure 14-7) silences this warning.

• Flaps are extended beyond the TAKE OFF AND APPROACH setting. In this situation,the aural warning cannot be silenced with the HORN SILENCE– PUSH button."
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The scenario thrown out on the other board from someone who almost had a similar incident, was the first alarm you mentioned went off and was silenced. They were aware they were at low power due to the no flap scenario, but weren't ready for the gear at that point and didn't want to hear the horn for the next several minutes. The second horn never sounded because there were no flaps extended. It was easy to explain the extra speed on final due to the lack of drag from the flaps...until they noticed the gear lights. The theory on the other board, given the fact this was a checkride and some comment was made to a simulated no-flap landing, was that the same scenario played out, but neither the pilot nor the examiner caught the gear.
 
Plano Pilot said:
From the Citation Mustang Operating Manual found at: http://www.smartcockpit.com/docs/Citation_Mustang-Landing_Gear_and_Brakes.pdf

"Aural Warning The warning/caution advisory system provides a landing gear aural warning if one or more gear are not locked down and either of the following situations occurs:

• One or both throttles are retarded below approximately 85% N2 and airspeed is below 130 KIAS. Pressing the HORN SILENCE–PUSH button on the gear control panel (see Figure 14-7) silences this warning.

• Flaps are extended beyond the TAKE OFF AND APPROACH setting. In this situation,the aural warning cannot be silenced with the HORN SILENCE– PUSH button."

Our Ultra has an airspeed warning at 150 knots but as time goes by the warning starts coming on at slower speeds or not at all. Over 12 years we have probably replaced 2-3 of these switches.
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Just curious if there’s anything in the supplements for the EGPWS.
 
midwestpa24 said:
The scenario thrown out on the other board from someone who almost had a similar incident, was the first alarm you mentioned went off and was silenced. They were aware they were at low power due to the no flap scenario, but weren't ready for the gear at that point and didn't want to hear the horn for the next several minutes. The second horn never sounded because there were no flaps extended. It was easy to explain the extra speed on final due to the lack of drag from the flaps...until they noticed the gear lights. The theory on the other board, given the fact this was a checkride and some comment was made to a simulated no-flap landing, was that the same scenario played out, but neither the pilot nor the examiner caught the gear.
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Who flys a jet below 130 without the wheels down?
 
Kritchlow said:
Who flys a jet below 130 without the wheels down?
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Vref approach speed in the Mustang is between 95-105 knots. You have to realize the Mustang is a very light jet, entry level aircraft.
 
midwestpa24 said:
Vref approach speed in the Mustang is between 95-105 knots. You have to realize the Mustang is a very light jet, entry level aircraft.
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Even so, the only time you would really fly a jet that slow is inside the marker, where the wheels should be down.
 
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