More on the great controller shortage

I retired from the Air Force at age 38. I took the FAA test for a controller and scored real high and received 5 (10?) extra veterans points. The only problem was, at the time, I was only eligible for FSS and not as a terminal or center controller because of my age. I even worked for the FAA during controller's strike in 1982. The FAA offered me a FSS position and I declined it as I didn't want that particular region (Conn) and wanted the Southern region.

I think the age has something to do with their mandatory retirement age, 55 maybe? Maybe an FAA controller will explain.
 
Fearless Tower said:
I have a funny feeling that if they would lighten up on the max age requirement, they might just get more applicants....
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I would agree with that. There could be quite a few "second career" types who might be really good at the job, but are members of the "over the hill gang"
 
I would expect that training someone "over-the-hill" might not be as cost-effective as training a 20-something person.

But I hope that they'd take retired USAF controllers and the like.
 
Controllers are eligible to retire at age 50 with 20 years in. Controllers are forced to retire at age 56. The age 31 requirement gives the FAA 20-25 years of use out of a late age hire.

The FAA has a huge pool of applicants already, they don't need to relax the age requirement. They need adequate funding to fully open the training academy. Thanks to sequester the FAA can only hire a fraction of what they need, and operate a skeleton crew to get them up to speed.

Of that fraction that hires on, half will wash at the academy. Of the half that make it, another half will wash at their first facility. There were something like 25,000+ applicants last year, and 1,100 selections.
 
Tough to get qualified applicants,that fit the age profiles.
 
Over 25,000 qualified applications last year. Nearly three times the current workforce. Numbers aren't the issue.
 
Yep, plenty of OTS, military and CTI applicants. An unorthodox hiring system looking at being more "diverse" is the problem.

Part of the problem is the number of qualified controllers not just total number. My brother can't get approved for leave at his facility because they don't have enough controllers to cover. Plenty of students sitting around taking forever to get facility rated though.
 
mscard88 said:
I think the age has something to do with their mandatory retirement age, 55 maybe? Maybe an FAA controller will explain.
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An FAA controller hired after May 1971 cannot work traffic beyond the last day of the month in which he turns 56. Nothing about that law makes sense.

Why 56? At that time airline pilots could work until age 60.

Why only the controllers hired after 1971? When mandatory retirement for airline pilots was imposed nobody was grandfathered.

Why only FAA controllers? Contract tower controllers can work indefinitely.
 
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When retiring at 56 after working 25 years, what sort of retirement plan is there?
 
I applied to be a controller back in about 1985 when they were still rebuilding after the strike. Took the test; got a good score; got called to interview. I turned the interview down because I had just gotten my first full-time flying job. Stupid or not? I don't know. Another road not taken.
 
Everskyward said:
I applied to be a controller back in about 1985 when they were still rebuilding after the strike. Took the test; got a good score; got called to interview. I turned the interview down because I had just gotten my first full-time flying job. Stupid or not? I don't know. Another road not taken.
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You could have retired 10 years ago.
 
paflyer said:
You could have retired 10 years ago.
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Yup... I have definitely thought about that. As it is, retirement is going to equal quitting (or being released). I don't get anything extra for staying longer.
 
Applied for the controller job this year, not selected. Applied a year ago and toured the FAA ATC training facility a few months ago. Met and networked with a couple of people there and still didn't get selected for the position even though the RPO's acting as pilots were almost all non-aviation related. The supervisor I talked to said that it wasn't a requirement and that hardly anyone there had any aviation experience. Go figure :dunno:
 
MarkZ said:
Controllers are eligible to retire at age 50 with 20 years in. Controllers are forced to retire at age 56. The age 31 requirement gives the FAA 20-25 years of use out of a late age hire.

The FAA has a huge pool of applicants already, they don't need to relax the age requirement. They need adequate funding to fully open the training academy. Thanks to sequester the FAA can only hire a fraction of what they need, and operate a skeleton crew to get them up to speed.

Of that fraction that hires on, half will wash at the academy. Of the half that make it, another half will wash at their first facility. There were something like 25,000+ applicants last year, and 1,100 selections.
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That unfortunately makes sense.
 
Ill echo Mark. I know CTI grads who have gone 2-3 years without being hired and have moved on to other things. A number of them work for Lockheed now as FSS.

Recently heard a rumor that the FAA academy just received funding for 3 more months of class. Also heard a rumor that there is a class of 11 people at the academy right now when typical class sizes are almost 20.

Its certainly not lack of talented and qualified applicants.
 
It's not for everyone either. A friend of mine did 8 years as a Tracon controller in california and got bored out of his mind. He is now a public school principal.
 
I would actually change careers for this now, but I am 2 years too late.

Seems silly. They'd get 23 years out of me before mandatory retirement...
 
weilke said:
It's not for everyone either. A friend of mine did 8 years as a Tracon controller in california and got bored out of his mind. He is now a public school principal.
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Yeah, it's probably for the best that I did not pursue it further.
 
AggieMike88 said:
I would agree with that. There could be quite a few "second career" types who might be really good at the job, but are members of the "over the hill gang"
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it's actually not the case. Unfortunately they really do drop off in their late 40's skill level wise.
they're already hosed, the great retire-off is beginning and it takes 3 years to check someone out.
 
Seanaldinho said:
Ill echo Mark. I know CTI grads who have gone 2-3 years without being hired and have moved on to other things. A number of them work for Lockheed now as FSS.

Recently heard a rumor that the FAA academy just received funding for 3 more months of class. Also heard a rumor that there is a class of 11 people at the academy right now when typical class sizes are almost 20.

Its certainly not lack of talented and qualified applicants.
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they run 18 per class in enroute....
 
Well, thank the current administration's incompetence. They're newly-implemented idiotic hiring practices are leaving college honor students with four years of ATC training in favor of off-the-street new-hires who are washing out at a rate of 66% in the first 90 days.

They could have signed my son last March before he graduated. They didn't and now he's headed to a new career at Microsoft on Monday. It's the FAA's loss.
 
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LDJones said:
he's headed to a new career at Microsoft on Monday. It's their loss.
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he'll be better off there.
much better work/life balance and a much better schedule. People getting hired now are after the last big wave 7ish years ago and will be seriously screwed for seniority for quite awhile. Having wed/thurs off isn't exactly great for the family life. :dunno:
the retirement is good but who knows who the last ones to get it will be. It'll probably be long before I'm eligible.
 
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+1 to PeeGee's response. Controller life isn't exactly conducive to family or normal social life.

18 per class nowadays in enroute...wow that's low. They used to run a lot more than that! My class had 34 and that was in 2002 before the big "hiring push."

Loren, if you want to be mad at anyone, be mad at the CTI schools for lying to their students. A CTI degree is not a guarantee of employment, and it sure isn't a guarantee of succeeding in training. That said, the FAA used to hire anyone who qualified, allowing the academy to screen and select. Due to lapses in appropriations, the FAA recently resorted to other methods to screen and select candidates. What gets neglected is that even those few who get selected still have to pass the academy and succeed in training.
 
MarkZ said:
+1 to PeeGee's response. Controller life isn't exactly conducive to family or normal social life.

18 per class nowadays in enroute...wow that's low. They used to run a lot more than that! My class had 34 and that was in 2002 before the big "hiring push."

Loren, if you want to be mad at anyone, be mad at the CTI schools for lying to their students. A CTI degree is not a guarantee of employment, and it sure isn't a guarantee of succeeding in training. That said, the FAA used to hire anyone who qualified, allowing the academy to screen and select. Due to lapses in appropriations, the FAA recently resorted to other methods to screen and select candidates. What gets neglected is that even those few who get selected still have to pass the academy and succeed in training.
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When I went through they ran 2 classes of 18. I think the sim had 9 scopes but that's pre eram
 
Everskyward said:
I applied to be a controller back in about 1985 when they were still rebuilding after the strike. Took the test; got a good score; got called to interview. I turned the interview down because I had just gotten my first full-time flying job. Stupid or not? I don't know. Another road not taken.
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Same here....
Was 1984 or so :confused::confused:..

Scored real high.. Was told I need the report to Okla for training and then sent to wherever they needed me...

I had a decent job and declined their offer...

Never looked back ..:no:
 
N801BH said:
Same here....
Was 1984 or so :confused::confused:..

Scored real high.. Was told I need the report to Okla for training and then sent to wherever they needed me...

I had a decent job and declined their offer...

Never looked back ..:no:
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I only look back, sorta, when I see threads like this or when I am talking to controllers in person. Sometimes I tell them I made the choice a long time ago. I've gotten both reactions. Some say I would have liked it, while others say I'm better off doing what I did.

I can't complain about how things turned out for me. I could have done better but I'll be the first to admit I'm no ball of fire ambitionwise... :redface:
 
Everskyward said:
I only look back, sorta, when I see threads like this or when I am talking to controllers in person. Sometimes I tell them I made the choice a long time ago. I've gotten both reactions. Some say I would have liked it, while others say I'm better off doing what I did.

I can't complain about how things turned out for me. I could have done better but I'll be the first to admit I'm no ball of fire ambitionwise... :redface:
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Personally....

I would not change a thing....:no:

I have had a great run and life is GOOD....:)
 
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My brother can't wait to retire but it has nothing to do with the job. He doesn't like baggage that comes with working for the FAA.

I could have done the military to FAA transition years ago like the majority of my friends. I'm sure they're happy with their choice but I don't think working in the FAA can compare with what we did 20 years ago in the military.

Friend of mine of position working this last year:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eWv4wyy_Jqg
 
Velocity173 said:
I could have done the military to FAA transition years ago like the majority of my friends. I'm sure they're happy with their choice but I don't think working in the FAA can compare with what we did 20 years ago in the military.
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So what did you do in the military 20 years ago?
 
roncachamp said:
Hmmm... Working in the FAA can't compare with doing ATC. Interesting.
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I haven't done it, but from colleagues that have military atc is pretty different. Probably a lot more fun.
 
MarkZ said:
Controllers are eligible to retire at age 50 with 20 years in. Controllers are forced to retire at age 56. The age 31 requirement gives the FAA 20-25 years of use out of a late age hire.

The FAA has a huge pool of applicants already, they don't need to relax the age requirement. They need adequate funding to fully open the training academy. Thanks to sequester the FAA can only hire a fraction of what they need, and operate a skeleton crew to get them up to speed.

Of that fraction that hires on, half will wash at the academy. Of the half that make it, another half will wash at their first facility. There were something like 25,000+ applicants last year, and 1,100 selections.
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Has the Academy gone back to pass/fail? For years it wasn't.
 
PeeGee said:
I haven't done it, but from colleagues that have military atc is pretty different. Probably a lot more fun.
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It's really the same except for certain military procedures. The military uses the same ATC handbook (7110.65) as FAA controllers along with military manuals and local directives. Very common for military controllers to control planes that are using nearby civilian airports within their airspace.

I served at a number of bases but Eglin AFB was the best, difficult but fun. Worked approach but mostly tower. Almost like an airshow every day!

There were around 135 fighters on the base back in 1981-85 (Fighter Wing, Test Wing) F15s, F16s, F4s, A10s, F111s, T38s, 10-15 C130s, 10-12 UH60s (Combat Rescue), largest aero club in the Air Force w/ 25 planes from Skippers to C310, and an airline terminal thrown in (Delta, Northwest, etc).

The Test Wing flew just about all the current fighters back then with their mission being the testing of munitions. Just about everything you saw during the Gulf Wars were developed and tested at Eglin. So you did see some "interesting" things there. Even had the Space Shuttle transporter 747 land there a few times. SR71 came in once with an emergency, an engine out. 3 days later after they changed out the engine the pilot took off but flew a couple of patterns first with the last pass just about vertical bank the entire length of the runway, and then straight up, gone! Cool bird.
 
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PeeGee said:
I haven't done it, but from colleagues that have military atc is pretty different. Probably a lot more fun.
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I fly out of a contract tower airport, and we have a great controller who, along with her husband, were both controllers in Iraq and other places in the military. When they got out, they were too old for the FAA. It seems like a waste.
 
We have a contract tower at FTY as well, great folks 3 or 4 men and one lady. I know at least one of them, maybe 2 are well past FAA retirement age, but they seem to like what they do and they are all good at it! :yes:

nddons said:
I fly out of a contract tower airport, and we have a great controller who, along with her husband, were both controllers in Iraq and other places in the military. When they got out, they were too old for the FAA. It seems like a waste.
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PeeGee said:
I haven't done it, but from colleagues that have military atc is pretty different. Probably a lot more fun.
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In the US all ATC is conducted in accordance with Order JO 7110.65 Air Traffic Control. Some items are annotated as being applicable only to the designated service but there aren't a lot of them.
 
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