More from the TSA

If they move the masses out to the parking lots to screen them, then they will be attacked in the parking lots, then they will remove the parking lots and make the masses use central drop off points and board buses. Guess what, they will attack the buses. And so on and do on. When will this crap end?

I read a nice story about the refugees in Canada that are of obvious adult age but since it is impolite to tell a bearded man that he is not sixteen years old, they are in high school and wreaking havoc. Hitting on the young girls, yelling at the teachers etc etc. but no one wants to confront these people for the fear of being called a racist ! I think this right here about sums the entire world up right now. We are so fearful of offending a few to weed out the necessary that we act like these attacks are the price to pay for not offending someone.
 
What makes airports so special? Are they going to put up checkpoints outside of train stations, subway stations, cruise ship terminals, and other facilities where people congregate? Shouldn't DHS be equally as concerned about non-transportion locations where there are crowds, such as theaters, shopping malls, etc.?
 

I especially like the part about disposing of the "dangerous" toothpaste and bottles of pop in garbage cans right next to bites lines of people.
 
kkoran said:
What makes airports so special? Are they going to put up checkpoints outside of train stations, subway stations, cruise ship terminals, and other facilities where people congregate?
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That is exactly what TSA wants to do.
 
I have traveled to other countries where you will be screened and possibly searched just to go into a convenience store. I have been to places where an armed security person will point to you and then point to where you will park. I went into a bank in Central America and had an armed guard on each side of me, both holding what appeared to be a 12 ga. shotgun ready for action. I was a little intimidated to say the least.

There are people in this world that want to kill your grandmother, mother, wife, daughter and sister just because of intolerance of different beliefs, yet so many people seem to want to blame the TSA for their little grievances. :rolleyes:
 
More security theatrics.

Actually watched a good report on the recent attack that showed security forces approaching and engaging the attackers and the point being that regardless of how much security you have (and Turkey has one of the HIGHEST) you can not fully protect against this kind of attack. If you set up security outside the airport, it will just create a different area of congregation that become the target. Just moving the target will not help the situation.
 
Every time I hear about how "new" rules and restrictions are going to make us "safer", I gotta remember my college managerial accounting classes. The class was taught by a successful business executive who was a very colorful character and was also full of very humorous, yet every day examples of real world business management vs what was in the text books.

His favorite topic was how the "law of diminishing marginal returns" related to the practice of managerial accounting. He would often quote a famous saying attributed to Benjamin Franklin, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
 
Shawn said:
More security theatrics.

Actually watched a good report on the recent attack that showed security forces approaching and engaging the attackers and the point being that regardless of how much security you have (and Turkey has one of the HIGHEST) you can not fully protect against this kind of attack. If you set up security outside the airport, it will just create a different area of congregation that become the target. Just moving the target will not help the situation.
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Yeah - eventually there will be a checkpoint with a line. Unless you have many checkpoints and there are very short lines, there will always be someplace where there is a group of people with their shoes off.
 
I've said it before and I will say it ago, it's all security theater pure and simple.

Airport security is almost laughable. TSA FAILED 95% of breach tests but God help you if you have over 3oz of a liquid, maybe that's were the testers went wrong...ummmm.

Where I am originally from, it used to be as soon as you walked thru the door, EVERYONE was put thru security magnetometer, all bags thru the X-ray, just to get into the airport building. Actual boarding a plane required 2 more similar security checks. There were armed cops standing with large guns across their chests, thumbs probably just sitting above the safety.

Ahhh the good old days.
 

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What nobody is saying is that the Istanbul airport has screening before you enter the terminal. And full screening before going to the gate. And 50 percent of the passengers are pulled aside for full pat down and hand search of bags.

The attack at IST took place outside the terminal. But apparently one terrorist got past the initial screening when the guards there were distracted.

The TSA is not wasting this crisis to call for searches even further out.
 
wsuffa said:
What nobody is saying is that the Istanbul airport has screening before you enter the terminal. And full screening before going to the gate. And 50 percent of the passengers are pulled aside for full pat down and hand search of bags.

The attack at IST took place outside the terminal. But apparently one terrorist got past the initial screening when the guards there were distracted.

The TSA is not wasting this crisis to call for searches even further out.
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TSA needs replaced or restructured .... Searching even further out will still mean they fail 95% of the time. Actually come to think about it, do the TSA have guns at the security checkpoints, if not then just dumb.

Never understand why they still allow curb side pickup and drop offs at terminals.
 
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Zeldman said:
I have traveled to other countries where you will be screened and possibly searched just to go into a convenience store. I have been to places where an armed security person will point to you and then point to where you will park. I went into a bank in Central America and had an armed guard on each side of me, both holding what appeared to be a 12 ga. shotgun ready for action. I was a little intimidated to say the least.

There are people in this world that want to kill your grandmother, mother, wife, daughter and sister just because of intolerance of different beliefs, yet so many people seem to want to blame the TSA for their little grievances. :rolleyes:
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You are correct but I come to different conclusion. I don't think there is anything the government can do to ensure I'm always safe. No amount of my freedom being taken away makes me safe. I would rather have my freedom. I think all the concessions we have made as a society since 9/11 have given them the victory. Freedom is expensive and its cost is more than a large military budget. It's cost has to be carried by every citizen of a free country on a daily basis.

I also think we should stop dicking around with other sovereign nations internal affairs. We are not as smart as we think we are and should leave well enough alone.
 
The most secure flights I've flown were with hunters and their rifles.

8/10 times my personal flights have ether a pistol and/or rifle
 
Nothing anyone does will eliminate the risk.

We could significantly reduce the risk if we:

1--Elect leadership who can actually identify the correct enemy;
2--Gut the stupid PC games and turf wars infecting our intelligence agencies;
3--Begin actively profiling individuals based on intelligence;
4--Stop the stupid PC theatrics of confiscating water bottles and "random" searches to prove that #3 isn't occurring;
5--Allow the public to defend themselves.

While there was ZERO merit behind the creation of the TSA, if the threat is allowed to progress to that point, we've already lost control of it. And, we shouldn't have to rely on the data contained on an encrypted smartphone to provide actionable intelligence.


JKG
 
Tarheelpilot said:
I also think we should stop dicking around with other sovereign nations internal affairs. We are not as smart as we think we are and should leave well enough alone.
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I might generally agree with this, but it's important to understand that our "dicking around" is mostly not responsible for the existence of the threat. The idea that the threat will go away if we somehow withdraw from the world isn't only completely false, it's been proven false countless times throughout history. The isolationist ideal might have merit in a world where everyone else was just as principled and disciplined, but such is not the case.


JKG
 
Airport "security" is not something exclusive to the US or the TSA.
 
JGoodish said:
I might generally agree with this, but it's important to understand that our "dicking around" is mostly not responsible for the existence of the threat. The idea that the threat will go away if we somehow withdraw from the world isn't only completely false, it's been proven false countless times throughout history. The isolationist ideal might have merit in a world where everyone else was just as principled and disciplined, but such is not the case.


JKG
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There is a happy spot between isolationism and what we do now. We go too far in my opinion
 
Zeldman said:
I have traveled to other countries where you will be screened and possibly searched just to go into a convenience store. I have been to places where an armed security person will point to you and then point to where you will park. I went into a bank in Central America and had an armed guard on each side of me, both holding what appeared to be a 12 ga. shotgun ready for action. I was a little intimidated to say the least.

There are people in this world that want to kill your grandmother, mother, wife, daughter and sister just because of intolerance of different beliefs, yet so many people seem to want to blame the TSA for their little grievances. :rolleyes:
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I agree that there are people that want to kill us, but strip seaching my 85 yr old WWII veteran father with dementia does not help. Not allowing a mother to comfort the three year old that is having a meltdown in the scanner, does not help.

Offering that "we are not as stupid as the other guy" is not much of a defence.
 
Perfect security is a myth. The closest to it is Israeli Airport Security. However, they only have two or three, can never remember, airport to secure. We have hundreds. So in practice it would never work here.

TSA is a joke. Half the time they just act like they are doing something. I was told the horror stories of TSA blue shirts trying to climb an aircraft and breaking off every sensor on the way up.

I had one guy try to search my flight kit because they were a "test" station for paper explosives..... I looked at the guy as he opened the kit and told him, "if you take the stuff out you get to put it back. I don't have time to play puzzle master to get those damn books lined back up".
 
James331 said:
The most secure flights I've flown were with hunters and their rifles.

8/10 times my personal flights have ether a pistol and/or rifle
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How is that possible? The guns are checked into luggage and totally nonaccessible.
 
Unit74 said:
How is that possible? The guns are checked into luggage and totally nonaccessible.
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Sometimes they are in the passenger compartment in smaller airplanes. But they are theoretically unloaded and in locked cases. If not in a locked case they have a trigger guard. So I guess the hunters could use the guns to club their fellow hunters.
 
Interesting to remember how the TSA came to be. Who started it and why they did. The airlines whined and eventually said they could not do it. ( the " govmint " has had to bail them out several times) we could privatize it like we did by funding the blackwater fiasco which cost us billions along with others like them. What's your answer?
 
9/11 started TSA. Nothing else.
 
Everskyward said:
Sometimes they are in the passenger compartment in smaller airplanes. But they are theoretically unloaded and in locked cases. If not in a locked case they have a trigger guard. So I guess the hunters could use the guns to club their fellow hunters.
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That.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
I also think we should stop dicking around with other sovereign nations internal affairs. We are not as smart as we think we are and should leave well enough alone.
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Absofreakinlutely. Our interventionism is the cause of many of the world's ills and has cost us trillions of dollars with nothing to show for it except for the hatred of those we interfere with.
 
On a recent flight from Rochester NY to Washington DC, I had to show photo ID at the book in desk, at the TSA screening to enter the terminal, and then as we were boarding the aircraft there were four more TSA people again checking photo IDs. The folks in DC are very scared of something I imagine!!
 
JGoodish said:
We could significantly reduce the risk if we:

1--Elect leadership who but the thought of the other candican actually identify the correct enemy;
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One of the reasons I'm voting for Trump. I don't know if he can do anything about it but the thought of the other candidate satisfied with the status quo is unsatisfactory. Among other things.
 
SkyDog58 said:
Absofreakinlutely. Our interventionism is the cause of many of the world's ills and has cost us trillions of dollars with nothing to show for it except for the hatred of those we interfere with.
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Not to mention the vast number of civilians we've killed, men women and children, in our quest to bring them "democracy. " Iran, Vietnam , Iraq, on and on.
 
creweite said:
On a recent flight from Rochester NY to Washington DC, I had to show photo ID at the book in desk, at the TSA screening to enter the terminal, and then as we were boarding the aircraft there were four more TSA people again checking photo IDs. The folks in DC are very scared of something I imagine!!
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Aircrews have to do the same as well as the gate agent checking them to ensure they're the correct crew.
 
mscard88 said:
Aircrews have to do the same as well as the gate agent checking them to ensure they're the correct crew.
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Yeah the gate agent thing is the more of the, "Do you have the right aircraft?" checking.

It happens more often then I ever thought possible. I even almost did it once in ORD. I always checked the release to the tail, but I got rushed and had it powered on when the actual FO walked down. We had a good laugh and he thanked me for getting it warm.

Gate swaps: Arggggggggggggg
 
mscard88 said:
Aircrews have to do the same as well as the gate agent checking them to ensure they're the correct crew.
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Or the correct passengers....

At Houston International, the passengers would board a bus to be taken to the regional planes, Continental Express at the time. I got on the bus with the rest of the passengers, got on the plane, door closed, FA starts the safety briefing, the tells us to relax and enjoy the trip to Shreveport........ only problem was all the passengers were going to College Station..... ooops...:D Bring back the bus, which had the correct passengers for the plane, we get on the bus and go to the correct plane. (pre-9/11)
 
Scrabo said:
Actually come to think about it, do the TSA have guns at the security checkpoints, if not then just dumb.

.
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No, they are not allowed to. Not at all.

creweite said:
On a recent flight from Rochester NY to Washington DC, I had to show photo ID at the book in desk, at the TSA screening to enter the terminal, and then as we were boarding the aircraft there were four more TSA people again checking photo IDs. The folks in DC are very scared of something I imagine!!
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I heard a sheeple on the radio being interviewed today... "They checked my ID today and it made me feel safe". Remember they vote.
 
TSA does have armed agents. One of our pilots who retired years ago got hired on as one. I don't know where they hang out on airports though. If I did I have to kill you I suppose if I slipped up and told you.
 
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One of the absolute truisms from my days in the military.
"If someone wants to kill you badly enough, there is no way to stop them. Unless you kill them first."
This is why LRPS were so successful and so feared in Vietnam.
 
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