Mig-29?

And is "self-insurance" pretty much a given? ;)
 
Rides would never pay the bills. Legal? If you could afford to run a Mig 29 you could probably figure out a way. Say start a nonprofit aviation museum, or a nonprofit organization that supports things like Mig 29s and just happens to have had one donated for the exclusive use of the board of directors, donations are being accepted to keep this piece of history in the air...
 
The SU-27s for sale a while back were nice too.

If I had the disposable income and the time...hell yeah.

A guy at KMSO had a pretty hot MIG, I believe he had to get an FAA waiver to break the speed limit to even land the thing.

You can pick up older MIGs for $60K or so.... but check the insurance cost :)
 
The Russians sell rides in a Mig 29 just outside Moscow. Quite pricey though. ($15k) for less than 1 hr.
 
You'd have to have access to some spare engines. The MiG drivers usually swap them out after 500 hours - like an unusable core at 500. Ouch! It's a hot rod though, I thought it was a much better fight than fighting a Su-30.
 
Why isn't Paul Allen flying it if he owns it!? Too much money, not enough time?
 
dans2992 said:
Why isn't Paul Allen flying it if he owns it!? Too much money, not enough time?
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He owns a whole museum of aircraft that he doesn't personally fly. I think he's more about collecting than flying. Plus he had cancer years ago. Might not even have a current medical.
 
dans2992 said:
Why isn't Paul Allen flying it if he owns it!? Too much money, not enough time?
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He has a whole flight department full of serious pilots that can fly him around in all of them.
 
If I were him, I'd at least want some serious dual time in the Mig though... :)
 
dans2992 said:
So who buys stuff like this?
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People with lots of money.

And if they do, is it regularly taken to FL600 and Mach 2.4?
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No. Supersonic flight by civil aircraft over the Continental US is prohibited. See https://www.faa.gov/about/office_or...t_noise/media/noise_policy_on_supersonics.pdf for details.

Would it be legal to sell rides in something that's "experimental exhibition"?
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Yes, provided the aircraft's operating limitations allow it and the operator obtains an appropriate Letter of Authorization from the FSDO. Lots of operators selling rides in warbirds (both World and Cold Wars).
 
Ron Levy said:
Yes, provided the aircraft's operating limitations allow it and the operator obtains an appropriate Letter of Authorization from the FSDO. Lots of operators selling rides in warbirds (both World and Cold Wars).
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Has the FAA resumed issuing LOAs for that?

Last I heard (couple years ago) that program was put on hold and they were not granting any new ones.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Has the FAA resumed issuing LOAs for that?

Last I heard (couple years ago) that program was put on hold and they were not granting any new ones.
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Don't know about either issuances being on hold or, if they were on hold, being resumed. But I do know there are operators giving warbird rides in EXP-EX aircraft.
 
dans2992 said:
So does that mean if you go 7 miles offshore going supersonic is fair game? Is that where someone who owns one of these would do it?
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I doubt anyone is going to be authorized to go far enough offshore in one of these aircraft with paying customers to be legal for supersonic flight. To my knowledge, the only supersonic flights in this country are in the military, NASA, and the manufacturers of the aircraft those agencies buy.
 
Also very doubtful that jet could get to 2.4, 60k would be easier but still a stretch for such a little wing. I wouldn't want to be relying on an old Russian pressure system anywhere near 60k. Ours works great but even at 50k it's working hard to keep us below 23k or so (cockpit alt).

MiGs are really draggy, that makes top speed tough to get. Also wouldn't want to go that fast in a 29, the flight controls are pretty loose, makes it difficult to fly precise. I can't remember if the MiG has a rudder lockout above a certain Mach or not. I'd want that too!

Besides those numbers are just for the brochure. Still a fun little jet, just make sure you don't go far from a runway, they are approaching bingo as they get the gear in the well.
 
EvilEagle said:
Also very doubtful that jet could get to 2.4, 60k would be easier but still a stretch for such a little wing. I wouldn't want to be relying on an old Russian pressure system anywhere near 60k. Ours works great but even at 50k it's working hard to keep us below 23k or so (cockpit alt).

MiGs are really draggy, that makes top speed tough to get. Also wouldn't want to go that fast in a 29, the flight controls are pretty loose, makes it difficult to fly precise. I can't remember if the MiG has a rudder lockout above a certain Mach or not. I'd want that too!

Besides those numbers are just for the brochure. Still a fun little jet, just make sure you don't go far from a runway, they are approaching bingo as they get the gear in the well.
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We've both read the FME report.........that jet would be fun as hell, but not to anywhere close to the edges of their performance envelope. Your jet or mine would smoke check anything but the best Fulcrum pilots in the world.
 
Yup, we went to Laage, Germany in 2004 to fight the Luftwaffe (likely the best MiG drivers in the world). It was an impressive climb rate out of the thing. I got to fly in the trunk of the MiG - it's not nearly as smooth as a US fighter. No way on the trade!
 
dans2992 said:
So does that mean if you go 7 miles offshore going supersonic is fair game? Is that where someone who owns one of these would do it?
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There are a few MIG's at Ellington in Houston that do just that.. 30 miles from the GOM...

They are usually fuel critical on return though...

Those MIGs were not long range planes.. They were meant to be interceptors.. launch, fly up and engage, then RTB...

The tower at EFD is used to dealing with warbirds (F16's and F18's) and can get the fast movers in pretty easily.
 
There are no privately owned F16s/F18s, right?
 
dans2992 said:
There are no privately owned F16s/F18s, right?
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There was an F-18 bought years ago but I haven't heard of it actually flying. They found in the records that it spent some time with the Blues as well.

On the American side of the house, it's pretty much limited to Korea Vietnam era stuff right now. A few F-86s, A-4s, T-2s, T-33s, F-5s/T-38s, F-100s, and F-104s, flying. Got one F-4 maybe another one (Navy) next year flying. Hopefully have an F-105 flying in the future if the AF would stop it's bureaucratic nonsense.
 
dans2992 said:
There are no privately owned F16s/F18s, right?
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Certainly none flying. A while back someone was selling a Hornet hulk, but even if you can get your hands on one that hasn't been cut up getting all of the LRU's in, up, and talking to each other is going to be next to impossible. You can machine new hardware to a large extent but it's going to be difficult to reproduce flight control computers, mission computers, and the appropriate OFPs without some help on the inside...and that's unlikely.

Nauga,
who would settle for a decent HUD
 
EvilEagle said:
Also very doubtful that jet could get to 2.4, 60k would be easier but still a stretch for such a little wing. I wouldn't want to be relying on an old Russian pressure system anywhere near 60k. Ours works great but even at 50k it's working hard to keep us below 23k or so (cockpit alt).

MiGs are really draggy, that makes top speed tough to get. Also wouldn't want to go that fast in a 29, the flight controls are pretty loose, makes it difficult to fly precise. I can't remember if the MiG has a rudder lockout above a certain Mach or not. I'd want that too!

Besides those numbers are just for the brochure. Still a fun little jet, just make sure you don't go far from a runway, they are approaching bingo as they get the gear in the well.
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How often do you guys operate in the FL500 range?
 
Small fuel tanks prevent defection... ;)
 
cheap weenie said:
How often do you guys operate in the FL500 range?
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Standard answer - it depends. We are in the high 40's regularly (like every 2nd or third sortie). Getting to our allowed 500 limit is less often. Not a lot of reason to be there. On the sorties we are high and fast, we'll usually be up there, back to lowish alt and back up top 3-4 times in a 30 min fight.
 
Velocity173 said:
There was an F-18 bought years ago but I haven't heard of it actually flying. They found in the records that it spent some time with the Blues as well.

On the American side of the house, it's pretty much limited to Korea Vietnam era stuff right now. A few F-86s, A-4s, T-2s, T-33s, F-5s/T-38s, F-100s, and F-104s, flying. Got one F-4 maybe another one (Navy) next year flying. Hopefully have an F-105 flying in the future if the AF would stop it's bureaucratic nonsense.
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it's a big jpb keeping any of those flying

privett still has a matched pair, Mig-15 and F-86. I ferried them for him in the early 90's and I don't think either one has flown since, although the sabre could be said to be maintained in flyable condition.
 
Velocity173 said:
On the American side of the house, it's pretty much limited to Korea Vietnam era stuff right now. A few F-86s, A-4s, T-2s, T-33s, F-5s/T-38s, F-100s, and F-104s, flying. Got one F-4 maybe another one (Navy) next year flying. Hopefully have an F-105 flying in the future if the AF would stop it's bureaucratic nonsense.
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Several of those are post-Korean War, and a few were Vietnam era. But I don't think any US tactical jets that first flew since the end of the Vietnam Conflict (F-14/15/16/18 and A-10) are available for civilian use. No F-111's, either, AFAIK, even though those were used in Vietnam.
 
dans2992 said:
Never thought of that before. Was that done?
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Yes. Freq's were preloaded on the ground from outside the cockpit into cockpit selectable channels. Pilot would be told "Go to Channel 4" and by selecting "4" in the cockpit, the desired freq would be selected. We, too, had presets (primarily for ease of use by single-pilot fighter types), but we still could tune freq's manually as needed, mostly for non-local flying.
 
RalphInCA said:
Yanks Air Museum at Chino, CA has a F18.
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Not the only Post-VN tactical jet in a museum, but AFAIK, none are flyable -- engines/avionics removed. I watched a USAF crew pulling the engines out of an F-5 which was being delivered to the Millville NJ air museum a year or two ago. It had been most recently used as an Aggressor aircraft.
 
When the USA got to fly against the MiG-29s that Germany got after unification, they were shocked. The MiGs won every simulated dogfight with the F-16s because they had a 30° off-boresight helmet-mounted tracking system for their AA-11 IR missiles. They did not have to point their nose right at the F-16s to get a lock, just in the general vicinity. The USA had nothing similar in operational use.

Additionally, the MiG-29 did not have fly-by-wire controls, and there were no software G-limiters. Both airframes have operating limits of 9G, but in a tight spot the MiG drivers could over-G their airplanes to over 12G.

The quality of western pilots might be better, but if the MiG-29 loses a dogfight to similar vintage airplanes, it's definitely not the airplane's fault.
 
bullwinkle said:
...if the MiG-29 loses a dogfight to similar vintage airplanes, it's definitely not the airplane's fault.
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You could say that about most any air-to-air platform of that vintage. ;)

Nauga,
from his own little corner of the envelope
 
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