Microphone Double Click?

CT4ME

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CT4ME
Another thread brought up a discussion of radio responses to certain situations. There was some question as to whether one would respond at all, or just say "Roger". In these situations, I often hear a microphone double-click as the response. I'll admit to using it in certain situations, as a means of minimizing meaningless traffic.
So what are your thoughts on the microphone double-click?
(excuse if this is an old topic, but I couldn't find any prior discussions)
 
It's an informal, traditional acknowledgement of a non-critical message.

Bugsmasher 1234 has the departing traffic (in sight)
click-click

Ok, now I know and I know that he knows that I know.

It works for what it is. Don't try to push it into formal communciations.
 
Just as easy to reply. Eons ago, I used the click clck but with the increase of regs, airspace restrictions etc, I feel more "secure" knowing the controllers know I am the one responding.

Cheers
 
The old double click could easily get blocked from another transmission and the controller would never hear it. When I worked approach fighter guys used to acknowledge all the time with a double click but that's a whole different situation. Somehow that procedure is getting more and more popular with civilians. Without your callsign it's not an approved acknowledgement and there's no way the controller knows you recieved their message.
 
I'll click on final when tower advises wind shift.
 
I'll click on final when tower advises wind shift.

It's a perfectly reasonable way to acknowledge a non-critical communication; if a comm requires positive acknowledgement, you give a full voice reply with tail number.

If not, the double-click is a decent way to offer a little feedback without a lot of chatter.

Or so it seems to me.
 
If I'm responding to tower or any other ATC, I respond with my call. If I'm talking to other pilots on air-to-air or CTAF, I'll use a double click.
 
Controller? Tower? That would be formal communciations, right?
 
I learned it in the military for use in a minimum comm situation, that is, where you want to keep transmissions to a minimum for tactical or security reasons. Its use would be inappropriate on an ATC freq.
 
I'll click on final when tower advises wind shift.

That's about the only time I use it as well, in responding to a request for a windcheck, when a response is not necessary. Almost as a thank you.

I often get it from the tower after thanking them for their help.
 
I also use it when responding to a wind check on final.
 
I only use it when the communications didn't really require an acknowledgement.
I put it in the category of innocuous nonsense along with:

Use of Tally Ho and Looking in response to traffic reports.
Announcing "Last Call" on the CTAF (which I'm always tempted to respond either with "You Promise?" or with some drink order.
Starting all communications with "...And..."
 
I only use it when the communications didn't really require an acknowledgement.
I put it in the category of innocuous nonsense along with:

Use of Tally Ho and Looking in response to traffic reports.
Announcing "Last Call" on the CTAF (which I'm always tempted to respond either with "You Promise?" or with some drink order.
Starting all communications with "...And..."

+1. :D
 
I only do it on our company frequency, with ATC, CTAF etc I'll replace the double click with the last three of my call sign.
 
I only use it when the communications didn't really require an acknowledgement.
I put it in the category of innocuous nonsense along with:

Use of Tally Ho and Looking in response to traffic reports.
Announcing "Last Call" on the CTAF (which I'm always tempted to respond either with "You Promise?" or with some drink order.
Starting all communications with "...And..."

What's the deal with starting a transmission with "And" I have never heard anyone use that phrase. Maybe it hasn't caught on in South East Texas.
Can someone give me an example? The only time I have heard this is at the race track when the announcer says "AAAAND they're off!"
 
What's the deal with starting a transmission with "And" I have never heard anyone use that phrase. Maybe it hasn't caught on in South East Texas.
Can someone give me an example? The only time I have heard this is at the race track when the announcer says "AAAAND they're off!"

Gracious me, hear it all the time.

Always figured these folks were sorta continuing the conversation...
 
I think the only time I regularly use a double click is when acknowledging a call from someone I know on CTAF. ATC gets a proper response unless it was some friendly chatter and a double click seems like a reasonable reply.


Announcing "Last Call" on the CTAF (which I'm always tempted to respond either with "You Promise?" or with some drink order.

I don't recall ever hearing someone announce "Last Call" on CTAF. That doesn't seem very useful.
 
Add me to the double click when acknowledging wind checks crowd.

I only use it when the communications didn't really require an acknowledgement.
I put it in the category of innocuous nonsense along with:

Use of Tally Ho and Looking in response to traffic reports.
Announcing "Last Call" on the CTAF (which I'm always tempted to respond either with "You Promise?" or with some drink order.
Starting all communications with "...And..."

Aaaaand I'll add to that "Skyhawk xxxxx taking runway 29 for departure to the east." I've always wanted to respond, "Well don't take it too far--I'd like to use it sometime today too."
 
A transmission with the last three of your tail number is just as fast as two clicks and conveys 100% more information.

It's stupid.
 
That's about the only time I use it as well, in responding to a request for a windcheck, when a response is not necessary. Almost as a thank you.

I often get it from the tower after thanking them for their help.

After being cleared to taxi for a rnwy 5 departure at CRG once, the controller came back and asked me to yield to a Dakota that had just landed with a flat tire. After resuming taxi, he came back on the radio to thank me for yielding and I replied with a double click. That's the only time I've ever done it.
 
So if you screw up the landing after acknowledging verbally vs. clicks, how does that change things?

A transmission with the last three of your tail number is just as fast as two clicks and conveys 100% more information.

It's stupid.
 
Okay, I realize that I used the double click today. I'd received permission to transit a class D airspace. I called clear of their airspace on the far side (NOT a required call, BTW), and they acknowledged with my tail number and a g'day. I responded with a double click. They were only working two other planes at the time, so weren't super busy. Meh, it is what it is. :)
 
The only actual place where it's useful is just before you transmit on center or AppCon. It tells other pilots you are going to transmit and may reduce "step upons".

Click
Click and hold and deliver your message.
 
So if you screw up the landing after acknowledging verbally vs. clicks, how does that change things?

If three characters and a button press is so much added workload that the outcome of a landing is in serious doubt, perhaps a go-around or different airport is in order.
 
A transmission with the last three of your tail number is just as fast as two clicks and conveys 100% more information.

It's stupid.

Call sign just confuses our ground guys, yea I know... but it does, they like the clicker so they get the clicker
 
Call sign just confuses our ground guys, yea I know... but it does, they like the clicker so they get the clicker

YGBFKM. Perhaps since everyone's on the ground with nothing time critical happening, folks should "in-confuse them with a cluebat.
 
Just as you are replying with 2 clicks, some other pilot tries to adjust the pilot controlled lighting.

and the confusion factor goes off the scale.
 
I learned it in the military for use in a minimum comm situation, that is, where you want to keep transmissions to a minimum for tactical or security reasons. Its use would be inappropriate on an ATC freq.

I never knew why people were doing it. Now I understand where it came from.

In a civilian situation, I don't see any point in using it. "Cutlass one zero x-ray" or whatever my tail number happens to be that day really doesn't take enough time to worry about, in my experience.
 
Or you could use your mother's maiden name or the last four of your social if you want them to be sure it's really you.

If three characters and a button press is so much added workload that the outcome of a landing is in serious doubt, perhaps a go-around or different airport is in order.
 
Generally speaking when the tower gives a wind check on final it is not preceded by a call sign and doesn't require a response at all. I suppose I click just as a courtesy but I have never given it any deep thought. I'm not sure why we are arguing over such a small thing anyway. Oh wait, that's what we do. :rofl:
 
What's the deal with starting a transmission with "And" I have never heard anyone use that phrase. Maybe it hasn't caught on in South East Texas.
Can someone give me an example? The only time I have heard this is at the race track when the announcer says "AAAAND they're off!"
If you suspect there is some lag when you push the button, or if you suspect that you start speaking before the button is fully depressed, it is not uncommon to start with some unnecessary sylable just to make sure that the necessary information does not get cut off. "And" works as well as anything else.
 
If you suspect there is some lag when you push the button, or if you suspect that you start speaking before the button is fully depressed, it is not uncommon to start with some unnecessary sylable just to make sure that the necessary information does not get cut off. "And" works as well as anything else.

Perhaps the adopters of that practice are concerned about possible time delay in the intended recipient's squelch circuit. :dunno:
 
If you suspect there is some lag when you push the button, or if you suspect that you start speaking before the button is fully depressed, it is not uncommon to start with some unnecessary sylable just to make sure that the necessary information does not get cut off. "And" works as well as anything else.

Where exactly are you "suspecting" lag from? Did you pick the airplane to fly that has the special slow electrons today?

There are three possible sources of lead-in clipping in AM aircraft radios...

- Slow software-based PTT circuit that's been "de-bounced" in software. If its causing more than about 150mS of clipping, it's broken or mis-adjusted, fix it. Usually only happens in certain radios that start with a manufacturer name beginning in G.

- Audio panel adding unnecessary delay between keying the button and the audio panel keying the radio. Fix it.

- Slow old power amplifier not coming up to full operating RF output after being keyed. It's broken, fix it. In close to the ATC receive antennae and facility, won't matter anyway, exciter power is enough RF to open their squelch at close range.

- Slow squelch circuit on ATC receive. Shouldn't take more than 300 mS max. If it is, it's broken, they should fix it. 300 mS is too long anyway.

Try it.

"Test gear":
Grab a handheld. Make sure "battery saver" feature isn't turned on in the handheld if so equipped (cycles the receiver on and off to save battery power, usually on an adjustable 200mS cycle)... Set squelch to noise threshold properly.

(Since most people don't have a Communications Service Monitor, the above will work out fine.)

Put airplane headset on one ear. Key aircraft radio on the ground on an unused frequency key and talk. Listen on handheld. You an even record it on a recorder if you don't trust your ears. Or use an earplug on the handheld in your other ear.

You'll see there's no need for "aaaaaaand" at all. It's an OWT left over from old radios long gone.

Keying delay noticeable by humans on simpex AM, died with the tube radio era.

Key, then talk, then release. Just the mental process of being conscious of NOT saying "annnnnd" will be plenty to cover the worst case scenario where all of the above are in play, while you're breaking the habit and reversing the desire to do it.

Every time I've been asked to check a radio with this complaint, the delay has been between the user's thumb and the mash-to-mumble button. You canmash the PTT and say any word starting with a consonant, and hear it on the resulting receiver's recording or in your ear.

On FM non-simplex 2-way there are some additional delays that beat AM aircraft simplex by a couple of orders of magnitude and people can be trained to push/pause/speak without saying anything or making monkey noises.

Don't teach this OWT.
 
It's not nearly that complicated. "Aand" became popular because pilots became self-conscious that their continued use of "Uhhhhh" would be audible on the replay of ATC tapes during the hearing.
If you suspect there is some lag when you push the button, or if you suspect that you start speaking before the button is fully depressed, it is not uncommon to start with some unnecessary sylable just to make sure that the necessary information does not get cut off. "And" works as well as anything else.
 
Generally speaking when the tower gives a wind check on final it is not preceded by a call sign and doesn't require a response at all. I suppose I click just as a courtesy but I have never given it any deep thought. I'm not sure why we are arguing over such a small thing anyway. Oh wait, that's what we do. :rofl:

I'm not arguing. I teach radio comm skills to people in more than one mentoring/"job" role.

Clicks are a meaningless conveyance in the ATC environment. If it makes the pilot feel as cool as a fighter jock, great. It's dumb when there's a better option.

We all have our information to share. Some of those advocating bad radio work could teach me things about flying, but inside my bailiwick/specialty, I know radios...

If we were using digital radios with embedded ID, a key click might be useful...
 
You need to get with the times. I use four clicks for ATITAPA.

I'm not arguing. I teach radio comm skills to people in more than one mentoring/"job" role.

Clicks are a meaningless conveyance in the ATC environment. If it makes the pilot feel as cool as a fighter jock, great. It's dumb when there's a better option.

We all have our information to share. Some of those advocating bad radio work could teach me things about flying, but inside my bailiwick/specialty, I know radios...

If we were using digital radios with embedded ID, a key click might be useful...
 
Flying buddy double-clicked as a response to "Seeya!" from the controller today. I had to suppress a giggle.
 
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