Mic double click

ircphoenix said:
I don't do tree or fife, and 9er half the time. And I will double click the mic for an acknowledgement that doesn't require a reply if there's little radio traffic as a courtesy. I won't do it for a readback or anything that requires a reply.
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Why double click at all if the transmission doesn't require a reply? That's just unnecessary radio congestion. I love it when controllers tell an airplane to standby and the pilot replies, "standing by":rolleyes:
 
Click click.
james_kirk_communicator_star_trekresize.jpg
 
Everskyward said:
LOL. Here at the home airport they give the wind checks not prefaced by a call sign. But it's pretty obvious who it's for; the airplane on short final. I'll continue to click in thanks.
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They do give those a lot. I never had much trouble seeing the five or six flags around all the terminal buildings and multiple windsocks scattered about, but they love to give winds. And if they don't, someone always asks for a wind check anyway.

I don't get it. There's all sorts of stuff all over KAPA at both ends and out the crosswind runway that all give wind info visually.
 
denverpilot said:
They do give those a lot. I never had much trouble seeing the five or six flags around all the terminal buildings and multiple windsocks scattered about, but they love to give winds. And if they don't, someone always asks for a wind check anyway.

I don't get it. There's all sorts of stuff all over KAPA at both ends and out the crosswind runway that all give wind info visually.
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I pretty much never ask for a wind check, but I fly with people who sometimes ask for one. The funniest thing is when they ask me, "What were the winds again?" and I scramble to see what I wrote when I got the ATIS. Of course that could be way off where the winds are at the current time...
 
Everskyward said:
I pretty much never ask for a wind check, but I fly with people who sometimes ask for one. The funniest thing is when they ask me, "What were the winds again?" and I scramble to see what I wrote when I got the ATIS. Of course that could be way off where the winds are at the current time...
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I'm always just listening to see if I can land 28 and avoid the shenanigans. Heheh. Yay! Straight to the hangar! ;)
 
BTW. Side note for @Everskyward... recently when they started putting that "Taxiway Sierra Two is closed" on the ATIS I had to look that one up.

"Where the hell is that? Oh. That. Nobody ever taxis there!" LOL.
 
jordane93 said:
Why double click at all if the transmission doesn't require a reply? That's just unnecessary radio congestion. I love it when controllers tell an airplane to standby and the pilot replies, "standing by":rolleyes:
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Hell I dunno. I figure if the radio ain't congested, it doesn't hurt anything. Sometimes I also say "thanks for the help" or "see ya." And the ground controller or tower controller will double click or respond in kind. All unnecessary. But makes it a damn sight friendlier.
 
Everskyward said:
I pretty much never ask for a wind check, but I fly with people who sometimes ask for one. The funniest thing is when they ask me, "What were the winds again?" and I scramble to see what I wrote when I got the ATIS. Of course that could be way off where the winds are at the current time...
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I asked for a wind check once on short final when the winds were gusty and variable and the wind sock was doing its best impression of a helicopter rotor.

When the tower replied with a 70 degree crosswind gusting to 25 I decided then and there that I didn't want to ask ever again because I might not like the answer.
 
timwinters said:
Because it serves the purpose of clarity. Fife and tree don't. All controllers in these parts use niner but few use fife or tree.
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It's about 50/50 on the controllers around here. I suspect there's some inspector watching them who has a thing for it, since it wasn't prevalent at all for the last twenty years or so, and then I started hearing them do it a lot more.

Or just the normal rotation of folks being hired slowly being trained to do it.

The older voices I've heard "forever" don't seem to do it much.
 
Fighters pilots do that when you clear them for T&G, LA, FS, on base leg. Usually was "Ace 35 base, stop" meaning he wanted to full stop (FS), I'd clear him to land, and he'd double click acknowledgement. Worked great, maybe not by the book, but whatya gonna do. Oh and it didn't bother me at all.
 
denverpilot said:
Barometric isobars never get close together anywhere but out west? Who knew? ;)
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Of course they can. But you'll get a pretty big change as you cross the last big ridge before the ocean, pretty much every time. It's not unusual to have to suddenly climb 300 feet in nice weather when you get a handoff.
 
MAKG1 said:
Of course they can. But you'll get a pretty big change as you cross the last big ridge before the ocean, pretty much every time. It's not unusual to have to suddenly climb 300 feet in nice weather when you get a handoff.
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Click click. ;)
 
SkyDog58 said:
Amazing isn't it?

Then you could ask that same question about yourself or some other guy on here.
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I haven't gotten the ban hammer... yet. I'm sure it's a'comin' though.

I could ask that question about my favorite SkyDog too. That's a miracle as well. LoL.
 
I use tree and fife if the controller uses it. When in Rome...
 
I only do the two-clicks in response to ATC's "Shave and a Haircut".
 
No. Never. If correct adherence to rules matter.

tex
 
Crane Pilot said:
Is it ever acceptable to use a double click as a response to an ATC transmission for a non directive ( like just an altimeter setting).
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No. FCC regulations require that every transmission include the identifier of the station...in this case it is the tail number. Never mind that this regulation is regularly ignored...it is the law and should be adhered to.

Bob Gardner
 
Depends. I don't mind if it's in response to "traffic no longer a factor" or something similar that doesn't require a reply. If you do it to try to accept an altitude, heading, vector, approach clearance, etc. then no, it's not acceptable. If you're IFR and double click my altimeter I'll probably come back and ensure you received it.
 
Radar Contact said:
Depends. I don't mind if it's in response to "traffic no longer a factor" or something similar that doesn't require a reply.
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If a transmission doesn't require a reply, I don't reply. I never do the mic click. I either don't respond, because a response isn't needed or I read back what you said.
 
mscard88 said:
Fighters pilots do that when you clear them for T&G, LA, FS, on base leg. Usually was "Ace 35 base, stop" meaning he wanted to full stop (FS), I'd clear him to land, and he'd double click acknowledgement. Worked great, maybe not by the book, but whatya gonna do. Oh and it didn't bother me at all.
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Small correction, it'd be "Ace 69, base-gear-stop". Gear is the only thing we are required to throw in by USAF per AFI in controlled tower ops. Everything else is only as required by the FAA if outside a military field.

--break break--

As to double clicks, well I guess that depends. So tower sends me around short final for traffic separation because I'm carrying the mail en fuego at Cat E overnight delivery with talons hanging, and the CRJ in front of me is you know, following the rulz and stuff. Guy slowed down to meals-on-wheels speed at the marker, picking up easter eggs that fell off his straw basket on landing and won't get off the g-d concrete.

So I'm on the go cleaning up, take the offset 100' off the deck on tower side, now abeam Meals-on-wheels, give him the "Llama Stare" meme look, pass him at 3 bills and tower, without skipping a beat, knowing the perfect opportunity for everybody to have a good morning cup of Freedom coffee, clears me "offset on the go, present position closed approved your direction -- clear to land rwy xx".

You mean to tell me double clicking the mic as I selected the Jesus detent and "stood the cobra" up at max blower for the tower and folks of meals-on-wheels at 0900, was improper comm? To quote Michael from Office Space: "I always do that, I always mess up some mundane detail!" Guess back to reading the AIM I go... :rolleyes::D
 
hindsight2020 said:
Small correction, it'd be "Ace 69, base-gear-stop". Gear is the only thing we are required to throw in by USAF per AFI in controlled tower ops. Everything else is only as required by the FAA if outside a military field.

--break break--

As to double clicks, well I guess that depends. So tower sends me around short final for traffic separation because I'm carrying the mail en fuego at Cat E overnight delivery with talons hanging, and the CRJ in front of me is you know, following the rulz and stuff. Guy slowed down to meals-on-wheels speed at the marker, picking up easter eggs that fell off his straw basket on landing and won't get off the g-d concrete.

So I'm on the go cleaning up, take the offset 100' off the deck on tower side, now abeam Meals-on-wheels, give him the "Llama Stare" meme look, pass him at 3 bills and tower, without skipping a beat, knowing the perfect opportunity for everybody to have a good morning cup of Freedom coffee, clears me "offset on the go, present position closed approved your direction -- clear to land rwy xx".

You mean to tell me double clicking the mic as I selected the Jesus detent and "stood the cobra" up at max blower for the tower and folks of meals-on-wheels at 0900, was improper comm? To quote Michael from Office Space: "I always do that, I always mess up some mundane detail!" Guess back to reading the AIM I go... :rolleyes::D
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Wouldn't have used closed traffic unless you requested multiple approaches. Of course wind is required in your clearance as well. You knocked out the gear so a wheels down check is out the window. ;)

But yes, for that clearance, I would expect at least a verbal acknowledgment "Roger Ace 69." Plenty of times we used to clear aircraft for the overhead and gave a wind check for each "dash" on base. In that case, a simple double click or no click at all is fine. Clearances or most instructions that are required for separation, personally I'd want a verbal with call sign
 
Velocity173 said:
Wouldn't have used closed traffic unless you requested multiple approaches. Of course wind is required in your clearance as well. You knocked out the gear so a wheels down check is out the window. ;)

But yes, for that clearance, I would expect at least a verbal acknowledgment "Roger Ace 69." Plenty of times we used to clear aircraft for the overhead and gave a wind check for each "dash" on base. In that case, a simple double click or no click at all is fine. Clearances or most instructions that are required for separation, personally I'd want a verbal with call sign
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100 pct agreed. The scenario is a byproduct of negative transfer from our MAJCOM reduced comm rules at home station. Luckily this tower is a frequent civil destination and they are patient and proficient with the exigencies of military tac training. It was all good. Solid input though, goes to show that sorties seldom go perfect and we never stop learning even as instructors.
 
hindsight2020 said:
100 pct agreed. The scenario is a byproduct of negative transfer from our MAJCOM reduced comm rules at home station. Luckily this tower is a frequent civil destination and they are patient and proficient with the exigencies of military tac training. It was all good. Solid input though, goes to show that sorties seldom go perfect and we never stop learning even as instructors.
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Oh, I thought your example was at DLF. I suppose you wouldn't have a CRJ landing there.
 
Just for clarity, not all controllers are pilots and thus not all of them necessarily know what the doubleclick means.
I recently asked a TRACON guy and he just stared at me. He truly didn't know. Not faulting him, just anecdotal proof of my words. (how convenient, huh? :) )
 
Controllers are getting younger. I mentioned that I was craving cornbread and buttermilk last night and nobody knew what buttermilk was.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Controllers are getting younger. I mentioned that I was craving cornbread and buttermilk last night and nobody knew what buttermilk was.
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Got some in my fridge for ya Tim. Except I only use it to bake with.
 
BigBadLou said:
Just for clarity, not all controllers are pilots and thus not all of them necessarily know what the doubleclick means.
I recently asked a TRACON guy and he just stared at me. He truly didn't know. Not faulting him, just anecdotal proof of my words. (how convenient, huh? :) )
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What DOES double-click mean? Hey! Let me answer that. Nothing!

What we know is that the clicker does not identify himself as required. To be correct one would have to say "Cessna one two Bravo", click, click!!!!! How stupid would that be!

Not only is it wrong, it's dangerous because we can't be sure the right aircraft got the right message. It puts the controller in the position of having to make an assumption.

Poor phraseology and misunderstandings are two of the biggest workload increasers for any controller.

tex
 
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