Medical reform is passed out of House

korben88 said:
@buckeyes7

Section 3-IV..... that's where the anus talk comes from. apparently we all get to have a visit from Dr. longfinger :(
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Congress, in its great wisdom, has specified that no finger is involved. Here's what it says in Section 3-IV:

clinical examination of ... anus (not including digital examination)
 
As a SI holder w/ a valid medical in the past 10 years, all this speculation is making me giddy. If it passes I would love to know just how much AOPA had to do with its passage and whether all you haters will give them some love. I know it'd never happen, but I will gloat privately if not publicly. :rolleyes:
 
iflyvfr said:
As a SI holder w/ a valid medical in the past 10 years, all this speculation is making me giddy. If it passes I would love to know just how much AOPA had to do with its passage and whether all you haters will give them some love. I know it'd never happen, but I will gloat privately if not publicly. :rolleyes:
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About as much as they had to do with the conversion of the DC ADIZ to the DC SFRA.

But don't worry - they'll still take credit just as they did then.
 
N918KT said:
Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems that you only have to get an SI under the new medical reform rules if you develop the specific medical conditions listed in the bill, cardio, neurological, and mental health conditions. Does that mean a person with ADD/ADHD can pass the one time medical since ADD/ADHD is not listed as a specific condition needing an SI?
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I don't think so. :(

The way I read it, it's only once you're flying under the exemption that you only need an SI for that limited list of conditions. In order to qualify for the exemption, you have to have gotten through the 3rd class process at least once.
 
For all of the complaining about AOPA, you guys might want to check out their FAQ on the subject. A lot of the questions asked here are answered there. Here it is https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2015/december/09/third-class-medical-faqs The previous statement about new sport pilot applicants needing to get a one time medical is also incorrect. Nothing changes to the sport pilot rules and so long as that applicant hadn't failed their last medical if they applied, nor had it revoked, they will continue to just be able to fly under SP rules with their drivers license. I for one think AOPA did a great job on this.
 
SportPilotCO said:
For all of the complaining about AOPA, you guys might want to check out their FAQ on the subject. A lot of the questions asked here are answered there. Here it is https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2015/december/09/third-class-medical-faqs The previous statement about new sport pilot applicants needing to get a one time medical is also incorrect. Nothing changes to the sport pilot rules and so long as that applicant hadn't failed their last medical if they applied, nor had it revoked, they will continue to just be able to fly under SP rules with their drivers license. I for one think AOPA did a great job on this.
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I believe this is correct. But, IF they want to upgrade their privileges to those of a PPL, then they will need to get the one time 3rd class.
 
Oh the humanity ---- How many bureaucrats will no longer be needed in OKC to perform tasks that were never needed to start with.
 
What if you have a restriction (e.g. no night flight)? Would you now just have to self certify that you are safe at night?
 
I'm amazed, no I shouldn't t be, that so may are so freaking impressed with this total crap bill. It does relatively nothing of value. It pushes all the so called improvements off on non-AMEs that have absolutely NO interest in the whole damn issue. It makes us wait another freaking year for ANY DAMN improvement, and these clowns at AOPA and EAA are telling us WHOOPEE WHAT A FREAKING SUCCESS! This is total Bullsh*t. I don't thank them for a ******** thing. You failed miserably. And instead of saying so, you exacerbate the problem by making it sound like something was actually accomplished. It wasn't. This is watered down crap and you know it. You're just patting yourselves on the back to feel better about this nonsense.
 
OK, flyingriki goes in the hater column...that's 2 so far. Assuming this gets through, how can you say nothing was accomplished if I don't have to go see some Doc who could give a flying f**k about my special issuance just so his secretary can write a letter that says the same thing every year? I have to twist arms, beg, cajole, and play both sides off each other just to get a stupid letter that says "Yep, Greg's still breathing." Then wait six weeks for my authorization to arrive.

Watch a video, see a GP when I have to anyway per my employer's discount? Well, that sounds like progress to me.
 
It is something of great value for me, if not to you.

If you don't want what's new, you can just ignore it, and keep getting your medical from an AME. Oh, and find somewhere else to curse, too.

I am happy because now I never need to fear losing my medical and seeing my flying days suddenly end forever. That's big.

There's no permanent consequences to presenting my checklist to a physician and not getting his/her signature. It is sorta lke a BFR compared to a check ride. Except that failing a medical can be worse than failing a checkride.
 
flyingriki said:
I'm amazed, no I shouldn't t be, that so may are so freaking impressed with this total crap bill. It does relatively nothing of value. It pushes all the so called improvements off on non-AMEs that have absolutely NO interest in the whole damn issue. It makes us wait another freaking year for ANY DAMN improvement, and these clowns at AOPA and EAA are telling us WHOOPEE WHAT A FREAKING SUCCESS! This is total Bullsh*t. I don't thank them for a ******** thing. You failed miserably. And instead of saying so, you exacerbate the problem by making it sound like something was actually accomplished. It wasn't. This is watered down crap and you know it. You're just patting yourselves on the back to feel better about this nonsense.
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Are you high? This does tons. It removes permanently grounding conditions permanently, provided you weren't dumb enough to get denied a 3rd Class Medical in the past.

It doesn't eliminate the 3rd Class Medical, but that was a pipe dream from the get go.
 
flyingriki said:
I'm amazed, no I shouldn't t be, that so may are so freaking impressed with this total crap bill. It does relatively nothing of value. It pushes all the so called improvements off on non-AMEs that have absolutely NO interest in the whole damn issue. It makes us wait another freaking year for ANY DAMN improvement, and these clowns at AOPA and EAA are telling us WHOOPEE WHAT A FREAKING SUCCESS! This is total Bullsh*t. I don't thank them for a ******** thing. You failed miserably. And instead of saying so, you exacerbate the problem by making it sound like something was actually accomplished. It wasn't. This is watered down crap and you know it. You're just patting yourselves on the back to feel better about this nonsense.
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Have you seen what they (AOPA/EAA) proposed?
4 Seats, 180hp, single engine, fixed gear
Day VFR only
Up to 1 passenger
Pilots have to take a free medical course every 2 years
Altitude to FL100/2000 AGL

Here's what we got:
Up to 6 seats, up to 6,000 lbs, no limitations on horsepower, # of engines, or gear type
24/7 VFR and IFR
up to 5 passengers
Pilots have to take a free medical course every 2 years
Up to FL180

I'm still trying to see the "selling out" that AOPA/EAA was accused of (not by you, but in the posts I've read). If they sell out like this, next time they should ask for Class 1, the doctor has to clear their schedule for the pilot's convenience, and the FAA will have the video showing at the local theater. Judging from the request/delivery that is shown, we'd get be able to fly space ships, the doctor will come to your house within 15 minutes of being summoned, and the FAA will set up the viewing at your house and serve you popcorn while you watch it, and then they'll go to the airport and fill your tanks.

As for the "waiting another year," how long are you waiting if this didn't pass? I'm actually not sure what you're complaining about. What, specifically, did you want? Your message looks like a rant, and I'm sure (I'm serious) that there is something behind it, but I just don't know what it is. Please explain.
 
It is a great thing - some of the shine may be off it because the III Class was always a silly-azz requirement anyway. Hard to feel "grateful" because an unaccountabke bureacracy stops wasting your time and money. And stops throwing some of your compatriots under the bus for sketchy reasons. . .

I mean, sleep apnea? YGTBFKM - without a single credible link to an accident in the history of US aviation?

But yeah, we get some folks back, keep some more flying, and AOPA gets my renewal, even if they aren't perfect. If we don't get completley rid of the OKC parasites, they do get toned down. Just hope they don't ramp up "programs" to harrass the II Class folks, in order to keep their empire percolating.
 
I'm wondering why everyone assumes (or knows) AOPA did all the work on this one. Was there a list of bribes or junquets I missed? Seems like EAA had to also be involved? Just a thought.

Anyway, for those worrying about what a non-AME will do or not do, I've said this before, but there's always someone with PhD after their name who sucks at being a doc or who sucked at being a spouse and and has big student loans and alimony to pay.

Ethical, moral, or not... $100 and five minutes in an office is gonna get anyone a letter who wants one. See "medical" marijuana biz anywhere that's allowed. For better or for worse, it won't be hard to get those letters at all.

So are we taking bets on:

- Whether or not FAA will ignore Congress... After all, they'll already have their extension...
- Interesting unintended "interpretations" of what Congress wants by FAA...
- How long until some idiot requests "clarification" on something stupidly written from the Chief Counsel's office who'll screw it all up for everyone...
- Who here will be the first person on PoA to fly under the new rules without a 3rd Class...

It's all pretty much academic for me anyway... I'll soon need a Second Class to do most of what I'm looking to do in the future in aviation, minimum. So just tossing the above out there for discussion. My Third Class (and the last of my under-40 ones) expires in the fall, too.
 
So we still have to pee in a cup?
 
aggie06 said:
What if you have a restriction (e.g. no night flight)? Would you now just have to self certify that you are safe at night?
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That would appear to be the case. I think the same would apply to the need for corrective lenses.

Though, in both cases I think I'd look at why the restriction was there in the first place, and let reason be your guide.
 
denverpilot said:
...
Anyway, for those worrying about what a non-AME will do or not do, I've said this before, but there's always someone with PhD after their name who sucks at being a doc or who sucked at being a spouse and and has big student loans and alimony to pay.

Ethical, moral, or not... $100 and five minutes in an office is gonna get anyone a letter who wants one. See "medical" marijuana biz anywhere that's allowed. For better or for worse, it won't be hard to get those letters at all.
...
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MD not PhD, but I get the point.

Without going down the "need the money" route, I wonder how many AMEs will simply switch from doing 3rds and sign letters instead. Could be a win for everyone. They don't have to mark up BS issues. They already know what they are doing so should be quite comfortable just filling out a different form. They are MDs so they should qualify. You continue going to someone you, hopefully, trust and have a relationship with.

Best of all "If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor!"
 
gkainz said:
cross-posting from here https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/where-is-pbor2.89423/page-2#post-2100493 trying to find a relevant discussion...

A discussion last night at our flying club meeting on potential impact to insurance if some portion of our members no longer have or need 3rd class medicals. Thoughts and speculation?
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As a data point, my renters insurance from AVEMCO says I need the 3rd Class. I called and asked if I excercise Sport Pilot privileges without a current 3rd Class am I covered. The answer was yes.

Might be since 3rd Class will no longer be required by the FAA, the same logic would apply but who knows.

Cheers
 
Terry M - 3CK (Chicago) said:
Far from the expert, but I haven't read that this is accurate. The Senate approved it, the House approved with Amendments, and now the Senate has to approve as amended. Expected Tomorrow I believe. Then to the POTUS for signature by the 15th.
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Again you are incorrect. The house passed it. The senate passed it with amendments. The house passed it again agreeing to the amendments. There's no need for it to return to the senate, it's already passed there as it stands. The ball is in Obama's hands now.
 
I would guess that insurers would be far more concerned about plane type, hours in type, and total PIC hours rather than 3rd class medical.
 
flyingron said:
Again you are incorrect. The house passed it. The senate passed it with amendments. The house passed it again agreeing to the amendments. There's no need for it to return to the senate, it's already passed there as it stands. The ball is in Obama's hands now.
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Your take seems to be at odds with the take from the aide to the Representative of the District our airport is in. I just emailed him and his response is quoted here.

It has to go to the Senate, but we hope and expect it will fly through the Senate and be on the president’s desk by tomorrow or Friday at the latest.
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flyingron said:
Again you are incorrect. The house passed it. The senate passed it with amendments. The house passed it again agreeing to the amendments. There's no need for it to return to the senate, it's already passed there as it stands. The ball is in Obama's hands now.
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Respectfully, at Congress.gov, it shows at "resolving differences," but that page may be not updated real time.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/636?q={"search":["H.r.636"]}&resultIndex=1
 
azure said:
If you mean Bruce, he's said on the Red Board that he's "cautiously optimistic". I don't think he opposed *this*, rather he thought the straight DL medical was DOA and he was against pushing for it as this would likely result in getting no reform at all. PBOR2 in its final form pretty much proves he was correct; luckily, AOPA and Inhofe wisely compromised and as a result, it seems extremely likely that this will become law.

I think Bruce is right that some caution is still warranted. After all, it's not a done deal until POTUS signs it.
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Having read his many rants on the red board years ago on this topic (back when no one thought any version would ever see daylight), I'll just disagree that's how he characterized things. I realize some people have personal contact with him so I'm not gonna argue about it.
 
azure said:
If you mean Bruce, he's said on the Red Board that he's "cautiously optimistic". I don't think he opposed *this*, rather he thought the straight DL medical was DOA and he was against pushing for it as this would likely result in getting no reform at all. PBOR2 in its final form pretty much proves he was correct; luckily, AOPA and Inhofe wisely compromised and as a result, it seems extremely likely that this will become law.

I think Bruce is right that some caution is still warranted. After all, it's not a done deal until POTUS signs it.
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On AOPA's site, it shows what was originally asked for, and what was gotten, and it looks like the "what was gotten" is equal to (watch the medical video from the FAA site) or better (5 pax vs. 1) than the what was requested. What was compromised?

http://aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2016/july/11/house-passes-medical-reform-in-faa-extension

(I'm referring to the chart at the bottom of the page.)
 
flyingron said:
Again you are incorrect. The house passed it. The senate passed it with amendments. The house passed it again agreeing to the amendments. There's no need for it to return to the senate, it's already passed there as it stands. The ball is in Obama's hands now.
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As of 7/12/16, congress.gov reads "Message on House action received in Senate and at desk: House amendments to Senate amendments. Type of Action: Floor Consideration."

So I was partially wrong. House approved it. Senate amended and approved it. On 7/11 the House approved but amended further. Now the Senate has to approve the House's amendments.

I read legal docs for a living. Unless the website is inaccurate, the senate has to give a thumbs up to move to the POTUS. As of yesterday, when the website was updated, it was with the Senate, not the Pres.
 
Senate started voting on it about 10 minutes ago. Looks like it passed by 89-4 vote.
 
FAA short term funding extension has passed the senate/ Vote still ongoing but presently at 85 to 4 1:11 Central
 
Just passed the senate 89 for and 4 against
 
If nothing else, this keeps a PPL who fails the family doctor medical checkup from being denied Sport Pilot privileges. The whole concept of knowing you can't pass a Class III and letting it lapse was okay, but if you tried for a CLIII and failed you were completely grounded. If someone was deferred by the AME but couldn't afford the expensive tests the FAA required they were grounded. Frequently, the FAA mandated testing was considered medically unnecessary so insurance did pay and they could pay it out of pocket. Or maybe they didn't have insurance. It grounded folks whereas, had they just not made the attempt could still fly Sport Pilot.

I'd say this accomplishes a great deal for those who have held a medical within the last ten years. If nothing else, it will save many people money on out of pocket tests year after year just to be able to go buzz around in their 150. It saves them extra days off work for otherwise unnecessary tests. It keeps flying as a viable alternative for the small business owner who uses his plane to travel for work, especially with the IFR inclusion.

I'll be happy to only have to visit my family doctor, who already has the test results for anything I need to keep me healthy and knows my history. I'm one of the fortunate ones whose only tests were done in my doctor's office. I know lots of folks who were not flying because they weren't willing to pay thousands of dollars for CT scans, MRIs, etc annually just to be able to fly their Cherokee over to visit their kids in the next state because they had colon cancer five years ago.

Something else in the bill which few, if any, have mentioned is the requirement for streamlining the SI process. The FAA is tasked with decreasing the turn around time. Perhaps this will lead to some relaxed requirments. Maybe even some additional conditions opened to SI, CACI or AASI. That might well prove bigger to the commercial pilots than anything else.

I for one welcome it. Sure, I wish it were able to go further and encompass a larger group of future pilots, but something is better than nothing. When dealing withe government, right or wrong, large bold steps are rare.
 
AOPA web site says it has passed the Senate now. Only remaining step is President signing it into law.

Of course, then waiting on the FAA...
 
N3368K said:
AOPA web site says it has passed the Senate now. Only remaining step is President signing it into law.

Of course, then waiting on the FAA...
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Yahbut if they take longer than a year we can do the whole drivers license medical thing and there isn't diddly the FAA can do about it. They can't foot drag this out of existence.
 
steingar said:
Yahbut if they take longer than a year we can do the whole drivers license medical thing and there isn't diddly the FAA can do about it. They can't foot drag this out of existence.
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I hope so, but I have a great deal of confidence in the FAA's ability to successfully ignore and still try enforcement.
 
IMO, I think what it ended up being is pretty good.

The major compromise from simply getting rid of the 3rd class with no conditions is the 10 year rule.

How many people have not had a medical in 10+ years but still want to fly? How many should be flying given they haven't qualified in 10+ years? How many of those people could get a medical but didn't want to go through recurring SIs or testing out of something that would cost a ton but now simply have to go through the hassle one time and they are set for life? They may go ahead and get it done now.

It's not perfect, but this helps a ton of pilots or will help them in the future.
 
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