Marker beacon database/map/finder?

[asicer]

I'm curious if the marker beacon receiver is really working in one of the planes that I fly. Is there a database of some sort that I can search to find out where the nearest ones are? I'm also somewhat curious how many of them still exist.

I've been using this map to find ILS approaches and then opening the plate, but it's a cumbersome process:
https://flyguycfi.com/instrument-approach-map/

 

[tawood]

There used to be a bunch around me at various Class C/D airports, that have all been decommissioned in the past few years. I guess the FAA considers them not-useful/redundant/etc., so I do too. I don't even know if my marker beacons work in my new-to-me Arrow.

 

[luvflyin]

I'm curious if the marker beacon receiver is really working in one of the planes that I fly. Is there a database of some sort that I can search to find out where the nearest ones are? I'm also somewhat curious how many of them still exist.

I've been using this map to find ILS approaches and then opening the plate, but it's a cumbersome process:
https://flyguycfi.com/instrument-approach-map/

Here's one, KVPZ

 

[donjohnston]

Are there any approaches where a marker beacon receiver is required?

 

[Captain Bubba]

Are there any approaches where a marker beacon receiver is required?

Marker beacons are used to identify specific points on an approach. If you have another way to identify them such as DME, certified GPS, crossing radial, etc., then you don’t need a beacon receiver.

 

[Captain Bubba]

Look for NDB approaches. Quite often an Outer Marker is co-located with the NDB.

 

[donjohnston]

Marker beacons are used to identify specific points on an approach. If you have another way to identify them such as DME, certified GPS, crossing radial, etc., then you don’t need a beacon receiver.

Thank you captain obvious.

If you don't have an answer, there's no need to respond to a question.

 

[RussR]

@asicer , where are you located? (At least general area.) There may be some members here that know of some nearby.

I'm not familiar with any easy to use tool to find this. @Captain Bubba 's suggestion about looking for NDBs is good, although so many of those are going away that it may be hard too. Especially, look for NDBs that are about 5 nm away from an airport, in line with a runway, at an airport that's likely to have an ILS.

 

[RussR]

Thank you captain obvious.

If you don't have an answer, there's no need to respond to a question.

I thought it was a reasonable answer to your question asking if there are any where it's "required". No, generally not, since most such approaches would have some alternate way of identifying the fix. And for those that don't, a marker beacon receiver is an assumed piece of equipment, so you will never find a note "marker beacon receiver required" on an approach.

 

[asicer]

Look for NDB approaches. Quite often an Outer Marker is co-located with the NDB.

You seem to be on the right track. Keying off of this idea, I pdftotext'ed all 7 of the contiguous USA Chart Supplements/AFD and than ran a search for "LOM". I got 273 hits not counting the 2 in Puerto Rico and Virgin Islands:

• EC: 62
• NC: 52
• NE: 30
• NW: 12
• SC: 54
• SE: 59 (61 if you count the islands)
  
• SW: 11

Of course, this list is missing those marker beacons that don't also have an NDB but I suppose it's a good start. For example, neither the KAFKA OM or the unnamed IM on the ILS34@KRIC shows up in the d-CS/AFD. I still have no idea how to search for those other than hunt-and-peck. I am guessing that LOM's far outnumber those without NDB's?

 

[Captain Bubba]

Thank you captain obvious.

If you don't have an answer, there's no need to respond to a question.

The obvious answer provided to your question is yes. You should learn to read between the lines. There's volumes of information you're missing out on.

 

[Captain Bubba]

You seem to be on the right track. Keying off of this idea, I pdftotext'ed all 7 of the contiguous USA Chart Supplements/AFD and than ran a search for "LOM". I got 273 hits not counting the 2 in Puerto Rico and Virgin Islands:

• EC: 62
• NC: 52
• NE: 30
• NW: 12
• SC: 54
• SE: 59 (61 if you count the islands)
  
• SW: 11

Of course, this list is missing those marker beacons that don't also have an NDB but I suppose it's a good start. For example, neither the KAFKA OM or the unnamed IM on the ILS34@KRIC shows up in the d-CS/AFD. I still have no idea how to search for those other than hunt-and-peck. I am guessing that LOM's far outnumber those without NDB's?

I suspect there's more NDBs without OMs. There's all sorts of NDBs out there which are not FAA maintained and belong to local municipalities. However, since so many RNAV approaches to smaller airports, I'm sure there's quite a few now decommissioned, so it's hard to say.

 

[Captain Bubba]

I thought it was a reasonable answer to your question asking if there are any where it's "required". No, generally not, since most such approaches would have some alternate way of identifying the fix. And for those that don't, a marker beacon receiver is an assumed piece of equipment, so you will never find a note "marker beacon receiver required" on an approach.

It was a reasonable answer to anyone who is reasonable. Not only that it was a well informed reasonable answer.

 

[asicer]

Are there any approaches where a marker beacon receiver is required?

I think the LOC34@KRIC that I posted about earlier, if you are /U. There doesn't seem to be any other way to identify the FAF other than the glideslope or GPS.

 

[asicer]

BTW, here's a list of the search hits...
EC:
EGROW ACORE CABBI VEALS WAUKE JULIP ELWIN LUKOW JONNY TUNGG QUINCY GOOEY HUSKK LICOL CALDE VIDEO SHENK CLIFS PNTHR CATCH EARLE BALLL MISHA YINNO SEDLY FELPS BATOL WEXOR PIKLE BANGU KNOBS AUSTN JEPOT TRIBE PHURN OLSTE KOLOE GWENN AKRON BOUTN FULER COBBS PICKL BRUNY MANNS ONIDA TOPHR CUBLA AIRBO FETCH KOOKY FAMIS DEPRE CODEE MINDI MAWOC DOUGY POBER REGUE ARSHA WICKR

NC:
BURNS CHUKK HILLZ ZILOM BARRO SURFF TOMMI SALIX SNORE PIEVE SHUGR BABSY NETTE SALTT NEWBN PANCK HARVS HERBB FLORY BILOY PICHE LAREW PYKLA MONTZ HAMRE GARNO TONNA SPIDA REGUE HUSSK ROADD WONDD ACORE DUTCH ALGOA LUNNS KENZY TARIO SNOOP EAVES DAWES SANCY POTTS PANBE KENIE HISER RENEY CHRLZ BEADY ROKKY CAGUR

NE:
HADIN LEWIE DUNNS BOMDE STOGE EPSOM BLNAP FITZY TORBY PLAZZ KLUMP FRIKK GANSE VRNAH MISSE MONGA LOKKS NEELY KATHI OGIVE CAMOR ENOLA PENUE HERRO BOJAR BALES STAUT BUSHI VERSI

NW:
TYHEE STRIK MANNI TARGY EMIRE TURNO WATON PELLY ELWHA TRINA DERYK

SC:
ALMND LADOS HOSSY LASKY FENCH CERCY STUTT TECCO RUNDI ANGER LAFFS MOSSY SABAR CRAKK HANCO SEYER TEOCK BAYOU BRENZ ALLEN FERNI TUNNG VERON ADDMO DEWIE FOSSI GARFY GALLY PRESO PONCA BLAKI OILLR TOMHI PANDE CREED GARYS DEPOO ROWDY KOTTI PINCK VALTR MUFIN SEBAS ALIBI IRESH VEELS LUBBI FLUFY MISSI FARLY NADOS WOOLE ALAMO

SE:
BOGGA MCDEN RUCKR MARRA POLLK BLOOD TUSKE KOBRA CALOO WYNDS DINNS CAPOK COSME PECAT BUSHE FENIX CREKE JUNNE WASSA GWNET BULLO YATES CEDAR ONYUN WIKET NOORA AIRBE BLAYD BRIDL LAANG MUREY ALLER KEANS TAWBA ELLAS STALS JIGEL MAXTN KATFI POPE LEEVY PERSON ROVDY JURLY WILZE AIRLI REENO ASHLY MURRY ALCOT DYANA JUDKY RALLY BOOIE MOCCA SNUFF MERSY OBION

SW:
MUNSO PETIS KEARN PETEY COLLN DUDLE CARLZ HISAN TOPAN COZEY

 

[donjohnston]

I thought it was a reasonable answer to your question asking if there are any where it's "required".

Not really. I didn't ask what a marker beacon was or when marker beacons are required. The response I got was something I would expect from Abe Simpson.

There are lots of approaches where specific equipment is required. I remember ILS approaches where an ADF was required (No, I don't need you to explain why since I already know).

So it's not unreasonable to wonder if there are any approaches where a marker beacon receiver is required. I haven't had a marker beacon receiver since 2015. I was just curious.

 

[luvflyin]

I'm curious if the marker beacon receiver is really working in one of the planes that I fly. Is there a database of some sort that I can search to find out where the nearest ones are? I'm also somewhat curious how many of them still exist.

I've been using this map to find ILS approaches and then opening the plate, but it's a cumbersome process:
https://flyguycfi.com/instrument-approach-map/

So has ya found one close enough to you to go check out your Marker Beacon Receiver

 

[luvflyin]

BTW, here's a list of the search hits...
EC:
EGROW ACORE CABBI VEALS WAUKE JULIP ELWIN LUKOW JONNY TUNGG QUINCY GOOEY HUSKK LICOL CALDE VIDEO SHENK CLIFS PNTHR CATCH EARLE BALLL MISHA YINNO SEDLY FELPS BATOL WEXOR PIKLE BANGU KNOBS AUSTN JEPOT TRIBE PHURN OLSTE KOLOE GWENN AKRON BOUTN FULER COBBS PICKL BRUNY MANNS ONIDA TOPHR CUBLA AIRBO FETCH KOOKY FAMIS DEPRE CODEE MINDI MAWOC DOUGY POBER REGUE ARSHA WICKR

NC:
BURNS CHUKK HILLZ ZILOM BARRO SURFF TOMMI SALIX SNORE PIEVE SHUGR BABSY NETTE SALTT NEWBN PANCK HARVS HERBB FLORY BILOY PICHE LAREW PYKLA MONTZ HAMRE GARNO TONNA SPIDA REGUE HUSSK ROADD WONDD ACORE DUTCH ALGOA LUNNS KENZY TARIO SNOOP EAVES DAWES SANCY POTTS PANBE KENIE HISER RENEY CHRLZ BEADY ROKKY CAGUR

NE:
HADIN LEWIE DUNNS BOMDE STOGE EPSOM BLNAP FITZY TORBY PLAZZ KLUMP FRIKK GANSE VRNAH MISSE MONGA LOKKS NEELY KATHI OGIVE CAMOR ENOLA PENUE HERRO BOJAR BALES STAUT BUSHI VERSI

NW:
TYHEE STRIK MANNI TARGY EMIRE TURNO WATON PELLY ELWHA TRINA DERYK

SC:
ALMND LADOS HOSSY LASKY FENCH CERCY STUTT TECCO RUNDI ANGER LAFFS MOSSY SABAR CRAKK HANCO SEYER TEOCK BAYOU BRENZ ALLEN FERNI TUNNG VERON ADDMO DEWIE FOSSI GARFY GALLY PRESO PONCA BLAKI OILLR TOMHI PANDE CREED GARYS DEPOO ROWDY KOTTI PINCK VALTR MUFIN SEBAS ALIBI IRESH VEELS LUBBI FLUFY MISSI FARLY NADOS WOOLE ALAMO

SE:
BOGGA MCDEN RUCKR MARRA POLLK BLOOD TUSKE KOBRA CALOO WYNDS DINNS CAPOK COSME PECAT BUSHE FENIX CREKE JUNNE WASSA GWNET BULLO YATES CEDAR ONYUN WIKET NOORA AIRBE BLAYD BRIDL LAANG MUREY ALLER KEANS TAWBA ELLAS STALS JIGEL MAXTN KATFI POPE LEEVY PERSON ROVDY JURLY WILZE AIRLI REENO ASHLY MURRY ALCOT DYANA JUDKY RALLY BOOIE MOCCA SNUFF MERSY OBION

SW:
MUNSO PETIS KEARN PETEY COLLN DUDLE CARLZ HISAN TOPAN COZEY

Just curious, have you found any Bone Markers?

 

[Captain Bubba]

Not really. I didn't ask what a marker beacon was or when marker beacons are required. The response I got was something I would expect from Abe Simpson.

There are lots of approaches where specific equipment is required. I remember ILS approaches where an ADF was required (No, I don't need you to explain why since I already know).

So it's not unreasonable to wonder if there are any approaches where a marker beacon receiver is required. I haven't had a marker beacon receiver since 2015. I was just curious.

Yes, really. If you don't know "when marker beacons are required" (and obviously you don't), then anything less than a conditional answer does not adequately answer your question.

 

[455 Bravo Uniform]

Doesn’t answer your question, but...your local avionics shop might let you borrow their transmitter (looks like an old transistor radio) and you can check it yourself.

 

[asicer]

So has ya found one close enough to you to go check out your Marker Beacon Receiver

I think so. If anything, this looks like a fun flight.

Doesn’t answer your question, but...your local avionics shop might let you borrow their transmitter (looks like an old transistor radio) and you can check it yourself.

Where's the fun in that?

 

[donjohnston]

Yes, really. If you don't know "when marker beacons are required" (and obviously you don't), then anything less than a conditional answer does not adequately answer your question.

You see, this is where your "reading between the lines" approach fails. It leads you to make assumptions which are not correct.

So you are saying that there are approaches that have marker beacons which are not also identified by a GPS fix? Great. Don't suppose you could give an example?

 

[flyingron]

I thought it was a reasonable answer to your question asking if there are any where it's "required". No, generally not, since most such approaches would have some alternate way of identifying the fix. And for those that don't, a marker beacon receiver is an assumed piece of equipment, so you will never find a note "marker beacon receiver required" on an approach.

Marker beacons haven't had any navigational use on approaches by and large in decades. They mostly existed as a heads up/crosscheck for a few points on the approach. About the only ones that do remain because they were part of a compass locator (and it was really he NDB that was the functional component).

 

[Captain Bubba]

You see, this is where your "reading between the lines" approach fails. It leads you to make assumptions which are not correct.

So you are saying that there are approaches that have marker beacons which are not also identified by a GPS fix? Great. Don't suppose you could give an example?

Funny you say that when you just made an assumption which isn't correct. No that's not what I'm saying. I could explain it to you, but then you might accuse me of being captain obvious again, so I'll let you figure it out on your own. I've already given you enough information to do so.

Good luck.

 

[Captain Bubba]

Marker beacons haven't had any navigational use on approaches by and large in decades. They mostly existed as a heads up/crosscheck for a few points on the approach. About the only ones that do remain because they were part of a compass locator (and it was really he NDB that was the functional component).

Mostly true. Inner Markers are a required component for Cat II approaches whether or not the crew uses them.

 

[luvflyin]

Marker beacons haven't had any navigational use on approaches by and large in decades. They mostly existed as a heads up/crosscheck for a few points on the approach. About the only ones that do remain because they were part of a compass locator (and it was really he NDB that was the functional component).

Here’s stand-alone one. No Intersection, no DME Fix, no NDB. Wouldn’t surprise me if the only left out there. Why they didn’t make it a DME Fix doesn’t make sense to me. At least they gave it a name so you can use RNAV to identify it.

pic won’t post. It’s the ILS/LOC 34 at KRIC

 

[flyingron]

For the precision approach, it is as I said, spurious. For the nonprecision version, you are right it is the NP FAF.

It used to be that not having the MM for the precision approach required a 50 foot penalty, but that disappeared a long, long time ago (1992 or so).