Malaysian Airliner missing?

docmirror said:
Yeah, I know squadoosh about the FMS operation, but apparently the waypoint was entered into the FMS, and I have no idea what happens to the navigation once that fix is passed.
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The plane then exits the universe if there is no approach procedure programmed.
 
Silvaire said:
I saw a bit of Fox News last night with Greta Sustern and a couple of "experts"

It was a real face palm'er :rolleyes2:
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How 'bout this one-"We don't know when specifically it was entered," said Mary Schiavo, a CNN aviation analyst and former inspector general for the U.S. Department of Transportation.

So a couple of days ago this "expert" says," if the plane depressurized, the passengers oxygen masks would automatically deploy" is that true?

Secondly, she said that if the plane went above 41,000 ft, the engines would flame out. I doubt it, but I'd be happy to be educated.

Then today, she breathlessly stated that most General Aviation aircraft are not required to have a transponder...in response to the story thread that noted that the 9/11 hijackers had turned off the transponders. Then she said," and you know that's why Osama Bin Laden had a general aviation airplane!!!"

I didn't know that he did, but he also had a pickup, so i guess we should all have tracking devices on our pickups..:mad2:
 
olasek said:
Orbited?
Per my understanding the jet will simply maintain the last heading/course (depending on the autopilot mode).
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Could be.

Per some media outlet (latest headlines):

At 1:19 a.m. on March 8, 12 minutes after the plane had changed course to the west, co-pilot Fariq Abdul Hamid gave a routine "All right, good night" in his final radio call.

If the above is true this 'deviation' had nothing to do with any emergency.
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The last ACARS transmission was reported as being at 1:07. Since the co-pilot transmission occurred 12 minutes later it may be that the two events are being conflated. I'm not sure, but I believe that since (or if) the ACARS messages were being transmitted every half hour, the ACARS message containing the information about the alternate course means the course was entered anytime between 12:37 and 1:07. The plane departed 12:41. But likely there was more ACARS chatter near takeoff, so maybe the alternate turn-back was entered shortly after takeoff.
 
Jim Logajan said:
Best timeline I've found is on pprune. Scroll down to the post by D.S. on 18th Mar 2014, 18:30
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Don't use time as means of locating a post on pprune, for example for me it shows under "11:30", not 18:30. Use only the post number - this is the only reliable way of identifying a single post. In this case it is pot #5791.
 
olasek said:
Don't use time as means of locating a post on pprune, for example for me it shows under "11:30", not 18:30. Use only the post number - this is the only reliable way of identifying a single post. In this case it is pot #5791.
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Point noted. I had found the info on an archive link which isn't the best. I believe this link should take one directly to the post in the active thread:

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/535538-malaysian-airlines-mh370-contact-lost-290.html#post8386068

Lots of info posted to that thread - hard to tell the informed from the uninformed.
 
eaglepilot said:
How 'bout this one-"We don't know when specifically it was entered," said Mary Schiavo, a CNN aviation analyst and former inspector general for the U.S. Department of Transportation.



So a couple of days ago this "expert" says," if the plane depressurized, the passengers oxygen masks would automatically deploy" is that true?



Secondly, she said that if the plane went above 41,000 ft, the engines would flame out. I doubt it, but I'd be happy to be educated.



Then today, she breathlessly stated that most General Aviation aircraft are not required to have a transponder...in response to the story thread that noted that the 9/11 hijackers had turned off the transponders. Then she said," and you know that's why Osama Bin Laden had a general aviation airplane!!!"



I didn't know that he did, but he also had a pickup, so i guess we should all have tracking devices on our pickups..:mad2:
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All good reasons for her well earned nickname- Scary Mary
 
Silvaire said:
I saw a bit of Fox News last night with Greta Sustern and a couple of "experts"

It was a real face palm'er :rolleyes2:
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I've long ago given up on any of the media getting thing correct. They try to show the sheep how smart they are by revealing their ignorance and using rumors as news.
 
docmirror said:
I'm afraid that we'll go though life not knowing the fate of this plane and passengers, which is rather chilling all-in-all.
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I'll be perfectly happy going through life not knowing what happened to the airplane. What worries me greatly is that we will all find out exactly what happened to that airplane one day when it reappears in our skies loaded with a crude nuclear weapon.
 
Today at 13:50 EDT (EDIT: Ooops. Time should have been 12:50 EDT. I guess. :redface:) Singapore Airlines flight SQ68 is scheduled to depart like it does every other day and did the night MH370 vanished. FlightAware's recent history indicates it's usually airborne 10 minutes later. Some here say it's real hard to "intercept" a flight and shadow it as proposed by Keith Ledgerwood here. To find out whether that's true, would someone be willing to stage a trial using MS Flight Simulator (or other) by 'flying' MH370's known flight path and at the same time monitoring where SQ68 is as you approach P628? There may be other flights available to hitch your wagon to using your TCAS besides SQ68. Yesterday I watched in real time as a whole flock of B-777s made their way northwest before I realized SQ68 wasn't a daily flight. I don't have a flight simulator or I'd do it myself.

Thanks.

dtuuri
 
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eman1200 said:
"man deletes a file from pc. breaking news story at 11".


this is what they got? man they are digging. I mean, I've never ever ever deleted a file from my pc.
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We get dribs and drabs from the 'authorities' over there. Don't want to go SZ or anything but lets not forget the whole country is a hotbed of one specific belief system, and they brook very little interference in that respect. Hope that will pass the FF filter and if anyone is offended, I can delete it.
 
So to the 777 experts-

The plane is on fire in the avionics bay. The fire is so bad it incapacitates the crew. Presumably it's so bad that either all the passengers are incapacitated too, or they cannot access the flight deck because of the fire. The airplane is flying by the autopilot only on an emergency alternate course pre-programmed by the ill fated crew.

Given the apparent size and scope of this fire, how long until the autopilot is consumed? With the best possible manual trim, how long can this plane fly straight and level with no input from a person, or the autopilot? Could it fly for four more hours with all the equipment burned to a crisp and every human passed out or dead? Can the engines continue to function if all the engine controls in the cockpit are destroyed? If the autopilot survived the fire, would not the missing plane be spotted passing nearly directly overhead the emergency airfield, where ever that was to be?
 
Sorry, but I don't buy this 'fire in the cockpit' theory - not only that is seems very unlikely that it occurred right after they were handed over to the Vietnamese ATC, I also find it hard to believe that everything happened so quickly that they neither had the chance to call Mayday nor to switch the ELT on.
 
German guy said:
Sorry, but I don't buy this 'fire in the cockpit' theory - not only that is seems very unlikely that it occurred right after they were handed over to the Vietnamese ATC, I also find it hard to believe that everything happened so quickly that they neither had the chance to call Mayday nor to switch the ELT on.
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Google SwissAir 111. A tiny bit of arcing in of all places the inflight entertainment system took out an entire MD-11.
 
Dav8or said:
So to the 777 experts-

The plane is on fire in the avionics bay. The fire is so bad it incapacitates the crew. Presumably it's so bad that either all the passengers are incapacitated too, or they cannot access the flight deck because of the fire. The airplane is flying by the autopilot only on an emergency alternate course pre-programmed by the ill fated crew.

Given the apparent size and scope of this fire, how long until the autopilot is consumed? With the best possible manual trim, how long can this plane fly straight and level with no input from a person, or the autopilot? Could it fly for four more hours with all the equipment burned to a crisp and every human passed out or dead? Can the engines continue to function if all the engine controls in the cockpit are destroyed? If the autopilot survived the fire, would not the missing plane be spotted passing nearly directly overhead the emergency airfield, where ever that was to be?
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Just as someone else mentioned - that turn said everything to me. I picked up on it the very first time I saw it on a graphic. The other bit of info that said a lot to me was the altitude reports (if we are to accept them as true). A climb to an altitude ABOVE the aircraft's certification ceiling then a stall down to 23000' then a second climb to about 29000' - CAN YOU SAY PHUGOID OSCILLATION ? To me it looks like there was not an active pitch mode engaged on the AP but the heading mode was still good. Everyone else was just along for the ride.

But hey I only have eight years of line flying on the 777 so what do I know ? :rolleyes:
 
Dav8or said:
So to the 777 experts-

The plane is on fire in the avionics bay....
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Let's pepper a few cold hard facts in here:

First of all the avionics bay is not exactly packed with combustible materials and ANY sort of overheat or fire is going to set off alarms at a very early stage. There is absolutely no way the place is going to just suddenly burst into flames.

The main battery (which is a NiCad) is in a containment box that would not be breached before the entire battery were consumed if there were some sort of thermal run away or something.

The main controlling equipment - there are two AIMS cabinets and they are not located on the same shelf or area of the bay. There are three ACE boxes which control the actuators for the surfaces and same goes there, the third one is not even in the avionics bay.

Continue with VHF (3) separated physically and electrically, HF (2) same. Everything is separated circuit-wise and physically. Satcom is not even in the avionics bay.

So an avionics fire disabling the crew and aircraft in 5 minutes? :no:

Entertainment system in the cabin? plausible
 
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eman1200 said:
"man deletes a file from pc. breaking news story at 11".


this is what they got? man they are digging. I mean, I've never ever ever deleted a file from my pc.
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Yeah, there are thousands of freeware and payware add-ons for MSFS & X-Plane. Aircraft, scenery files, terrain improvements, weather add-ons, etc. There are even add-on programs that simulate the crew environment, such as FS2Crew for Airbus, 737NG, 777, etc.

I'm sure this pilot downloaded, tried and deleted plenty of files over the years. Not only that but it's very common to fly to various locations around the world that you'd probably never get a chance to do in real life. Setup flightplans, save them, test ideas and yes.... delete them.

I can see where this whole thing is going and it's a shame. They are looking for a scapegoat. I don't trust the Malaysian goverment nor our own:no:.

I'll leave it at that, don't want to go SZ.

"Ooo OMG he deleted data from his flight simulator hard drive":hairraise::yikes:
Idiots:rolleyes2:
 
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http://blogs.wsj.com/searealtime/20...aysian-pilot-insulting-says-simulation-maker/

Simulation Maker Responds to Conjecture on Disappearance of Flight 370

“As is always the case when something cannot be explained, there are many folks attempting to explain the event to the public using theories, guesswork and good, old-fashioned imagination,” he wrote.

“Some of these commentators have focused on Captain Shah’s [cq] love of the flight simulation hobby as a suggestion that he may somehow have played a role in the disappearance of MH 370. Such wild conjecture is not only insulting to those of us who wear or have worn the stripes of a captain, but has the potential to be damaging to the flight simulation hobby.”

Mr. Randazzo noted that Capt. Zaharie had used PMDG software but had no part in its development.

“Captain Shah was well known to many in the flight simulation community because he had developed an online presence in which he dedicated many hours of his time to promoting the enjoyment of flying generally, and flight simulation specifically,” Mr. Randazzo wrote.

“In a manner of speaking, our community appears to have lost one of our own by virtue of the fact that he was also an accomplished 777 captain flying for a well-respected airline.”
 
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Art VanDelay said:
Just as someone else mentioned - that turn said everything to me. I picked up on it the very first time I saw it on a graphic. The other bit of info that said a lot to me was the altitude reports (if we are to accept them as true). A climb to an altitude ABOVE the aircraft's certification ceiling then a stall down to 23000' then a second climb to about 29000' - CAN YOU SAY PHUGOID OSCILLATION ? To me it looks like there was not an active pitch mode engaged on the AP but the heading mode was still good. Everyone else was just along for the ride.

But hey I only have eight years of line flying on the 777 so what do I know ? :rolleyes:
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I respect your history with the bird, but why the procedure turn to a waypoint? All I can come up with was an effort to get to land in a hurry, but then if that's the case why did the co give the 'all right good night'?

These two don't make sense. In a very general way here's how I have it:

1. Something comes up about an hour into the flight.
2. They input a commanded turn to a waypoint that is way off the normal route.
3. The co give only a normal message with no mayday, or alert, or indication that anything is amiss.
4. The plane goes into some kind of uncoordinated flight mode.

Fight in the cockpit? Fire? explosive decomp? I guess any or all are viable.
 
The stuff that gets said on the news by supposed experts is very sketchy. For instance this statement from a "commercial jet-rated pilot":

Ability required

Programming waypoints into the flight management system of a Boeing 777-200 is "a task that would have been beyond the abilities of anyone but a professional pilot," said Robert Goyer, the editor in chief of Flying magazine and a commercial jet-rated pilot.

Um no, there are plenty of tasks required to Pilot a Triple Seven that would require such advanced skills but punching a flight plan into the CDU isn't one of them.
 
Art VanDelay said:
Google SwissAir 111. A tiny bit of arcing in of all places the inflight entertainment system took out an entire MD-11.
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Yes, but it took some time to do it and the crew had time to get the word out to people on the ground.
 
Art VanDelay said:
Just as someone else mentioned - that turn said everything to me. I picked up on it the very first time I saw it on a graphic. The other bit of info that said a lot to me was the altitude reports (if we are to accept them as true). A climb to an altitude ABOVE the aircraft's certification ceiling then a stall down to 23000' then a second climb to about 29000' - CAN YOU SAY PHUGOID OSCILLATION ? To me it looks like there was not an active pitch mode engaged on the AP but the heading mode was still good. Everyone else was just along for the ride.

But hey I only have eight years of line flying on the 777 so what do I know ? :rolleyes:
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So, I guess I'll ask my questions again since you got distracted.

  • Can the 777 fly on for four hours with no autopilot and no human interaction in the case of complete cockpit destruction?
  • Can the engines still function if all the flight controls are burned?
  • If the autopilot was spared destruction, why do you suppose the airliner never arrived, or spotted at the emergency alternate?
I'm not trying to say the fire theory is wrong. It is just as likely to be correct as any other IMO, but I'm just trying to see how well it holds up given what we do know, which is not near enough.
 
Let's assume for a second that there was a fire of some type on board. How long does it take to key the mic and say, "Mayday, Mayday, Malaysian FL 370 Fire in the cockpit" I just timed it, 4 seconds and I think if my ass was on fire, I might have talked faster. :D
 
N747JB said:
Let's assume for a second that there was a fire of some type on board. How long does it take to key the mic and say, "Mayday, Mayday, Malaysian FL 370 Fire in the cockpit" I just timed it, 4 seconds and I think if my ass was on fire, I might have talked faster. :D
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If the fire was in the avionics bay, it could have taken the radios out before they had a chance.
 
N747JB said:
Let's assume for a second that there was a fire of some type on board. How long does it take to key the mic and say, "Mayday, Mayday, Malaysian FL 370 Fire in the cockpit" I just timed it, 4 seconds and I think if my ass was on fire, I might have talked faster. :D
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+1 Exactly my thoughts. Flipping the ELT switch takes even less than a second and works entirely independent from the other systems. They however had the time to fiddle around with the autopilot, which occupied them both so much that none had the time to call Mayday of to flip the switch? Yeah, right... :rolleyes2:

Also, all the independently operating radios burst in flames simultaneously, while the autopilot and the FMS remained operational? Hmmm... :rolleyes2:
According to this picture, navigation and radios are all located between the seats:
777flightdeck3.gif

I understand, that this is most likely only the position of the operating panels and the actual radios are located somewhere else, but still...
 
I don't think the radios are located there, the control heads for all these devices are there, the actual boxes they control are typically elsewhere. In order to reach any valid conclusions you need to know where the various boxes and wire chases are, and which wires are in which harness. You can burn through one harness and take out a plethora of things in the same instant.
 
I just found this website with detailed descriptions of the 777's systems. The redundancy level of the electrical systems is just incredible. :eek:
 
N747JB said:
Let's assume for a second that there was a fire of some type on board. How long does it take to key the mic and say, "Mayday, Mayday, Malaysian FL 370 Fire in the cockpit" I just timed it, 4 seconds and I think if my ass was on fire, I might have talked faster. :D
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I had a night alternator failure last year (not the usual type - alternator came apart froze the pulley, and filled the cabin with smoke VERY fast). I attempted a transmission just as quick that I thought made it out at first onset of smoke while simultaneously shedding load and lining up over I-10 ... an instant later the battery blew, master off and headlamp ON. I had attempted to transmit as there were 2 CBP choppers over the threshold blocking the approach-landing.

Upto the alternator disintegrating, all gauges were normal. From first onset smoke to total electrical failure and battery loss was EXTREMELY fast (<7 seconds) and I transmitted a "PAN PAN smoke in the cockpit landing RWY 28" that the CBP guys said they never heard. When an electrical system is giving up the ghost, there are probably some surges and lulls going on electrically that are probably going to play havoc with your comms. I told the CBP pilot I know that I DEFINETLY had a green transmit light ... he insisted DEFINETLY nothing got out or they'd have gotten out of the way. You guys that think you're going to lose an alternator and have 30-60 minutes of battery time might have a surprise coming. Final note: your I-Phone light penetrates smoke WAY better than the head lamps and flash lights.
 
One of the most interesting things in all of this, to me at least, is that you can put out 50% admittedly bad information, and people will still believe the other half. Why is anyone basing any theories on any "facts" from the officials? Any of those facts that weren't corrected our contradicted today, very well might be tomorrow. The only thing I know for sure is that the plane took off and didn't land where it was supposed to. The cause of that is almost always either a human or mechanical failure leading to a crash. There's nothing approaching sufficient reliable evidence at this point to convince me that something else happened.
 
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