Malaysia Airlines Flight 370

I DID. You are confusing "pressure suction" (as described above) with plain friction and surface tension. These two primary forces were working on your shoes. If only there were muds/swamps on the Moon and you could walk through it you could feel practically identical forces even though gravity is smaller there.
 
olasek said:
:mad2: :hairraise: :yikes: Wow, wow!
This is an extraordinarily bad Physics, even bad by high school standards.
Actually the pressure is pushing the plane (slightly) up, not down, Mr. Archimedes said so.
(too bad I missed this statement earlier but I simply can't let it go without a commentary)
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I'm sure you had to comment on any error I make, you have done that a bit in my previous posts. I don't take it personal. I look at responses that I can learn from and I wont respond back to H.S. name calling.

NEXT!!
 
azure said:
In my experience, that's actually par for the course by COLLEGE intro physics standards. Non-major (or non-engineering) students have a terribly hard time with Archimedes' principle, not just understanding why it works but applying it in the real world.

And to make that 100% clear (I hope), it's pushing it slightly up because the pressure at the top of the plane (which pushes down on the plane) is slightly less than the pressure at the bottom (which pushes up) because pressure in the ocean increases with depth. The other force involved is that of gravity, i.e. the weight of the plane, and that is greater than the net buoyant force (which is slightly up) since the plane's metallic components make its average density greater than that of seawater.
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Thanks for the response!

Which I actually learned something!
 
olasek said:
...If only there were muds/swamps on the Moon and you could walk through it you could feel practically identical forces even though gravity is smaller there.
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Okay wait a minute here, since we're talking HS Physics and all. Since there is no air on the Moon how could there be "suction"?
 
Silvaire said:
Okay wait a minute here, since we're talking HS Physics and all. Since there is no air on the Moon how could there be "suction"?
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There doesn't need to be AIR for suction. There needs to be a fluid (which MIGHT be air) and a perfect seal between a horizontal surface and an object on top, so no fluid can flow underneath. The weight of the fluid above then makes it hard to lift the object until the seal is broken.

But he's actually saying (I think) that the kind of "suction" that yanks your boots off in mud does NOT depend on this mechanism, which is why the forces involved would be the same in the reduced gravity on the Moon. That sounds plausible at first glance because you are not going to get a perfect seal between your boots and solid ground. I've never seen a careful analysis of that however so I can't comment with any confidence. Interesting subject.
 
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After a quick search I read this old paper. Of course we won't know the soil conditions on the sea bed, but it appears that a huge amount of force would have to be applied to lift objects as large as 777 parts from the sea bed if they are embedded.

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/692411.pdf

Better bring the big winches out there.
 
Silvaire said:
Since there is no air on the Moon how could there be "suction"?
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No, I wasn't referring to "suction", I was referring to friction and surface tension/viscosity - the other two forces, dominant forces in this case (with "mud") which neither depends on gravity or air.

Alexb2000 said:
After a quick search I read this old paper.
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Good document, it shows that hydrostatic pressure has no direct bearing on the "breakout" forces, but like they are saying higher water pressure can change properties of the soil and actually may reduce resistance forces.
 
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FloridaPilot said:
It sucks that I had to Google who she was:


She seemed like an amazing person, I will read up on her further!
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This right here is a good data point to determine the life span of "celebrity status". About 4 generations I suspect.
 
Dav8or said:
This right here is a good data point to determine the life span of "celebrity status". About 4 generations I suspect.
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Depends if their celebrity left any enduring evidence. Cleopatra and Julius Cesar are still known celebrities, then you have people like Madonna who probably won't make a full two.
 
What about the giant sea monster that is protecting it?

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In the first couple weeks, the US Navy sent some ships out to search. If I remember correctly, they did NOT go to where the rest of the world was looking, making me wonder if we knew something nobody else did.

Does anyone know where that search area was and does it have any relationship to the current search area?
 
Matthew said:
What about the giant sea monster that is protecting it?

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In the first couple weeks, the US Navy sent some ships out to search. If I remember correctly, they did NOT go to where the rest of the world was looking, making me wonder if we knew something nobody else did.

Does anyone know where that search area was and does it have any relationship to the current search area?
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They will call in Godzilla to defeat it.
 
This thread is as bad as CNN. I read this whole damn thing thinking there was something new about flight 370, but no, just a bunch of people who really miss those heady days of speculation, intrigue and suspense and want to relive the good times.:rolleyes:
 
Dav8or said:
This thread is as bad as CNN. I read this whole damn thing thinking there was something new about flight 370, but no, just a bunch of people who really miss those heady days of speculation, intrigue and suspense and want to relive the good times.:rolleyes:
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This ain't bad. Last time I looked, about a month ago, PPRuNE had over 10,000 posts on the subject, and of course every Limey what posted swore he was right. :yes: :D
 
Once the thread started I tried to include something relatively fresh (#112), at least for me it was startling.
 
Henning said:
Depends if their celebrity left any enduring evidence. Cleopatra and Julius Cesar are still known celebrities, then you have people like Madonna who probably won't make a full two.
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To be honest I think Amelia Earhart's celebrity is borne largely by the fact that she disappeared. Can anyone here (without using Google) tell us what her most famous feat of accomplishment was?
 
Silvaire said:
To be honest I think Amelia Earhart's celebrity is borne largely by the fact that she disappeared. Can anyone here (without using Google) tell us what her most famous feat of accomplishment was?
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Well since I'm at work, tired and ready to go home, I'll give it a shot.

I think she flew from California to Newark. ?

No google. I'm going soley on my sketchy memory of memorabilia I saw at EWR when I worked there many years ago.
 
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timwinters said:
Hint, almost all here are pilots but only a few actually fly big iron. Find out who they are and listen to them when events like this are being discussed

The rest of us, not so much. I fly a 182. Asking me to give an opinion is like asking a kid riding a tricycle to opine on how a Harley handles in the curves.
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But Tim what if it was a straight tail 777? :wink2:
 
Silvaire said:
To be honest I think Amelia Earhart's celebrity is borne largely by the fact that she disappeared. Can anyone here (without using Google)
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I think she did participate in number of air races and won some.
She was also a 'celebrity' long before she disappeared, probably because of her facial resemblance to Lindbergh. Also Eleanor Roosevelt was very fond of her. (No google)
 
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Silvaire said:
To be honest I think Amelia Earhart's celebrity is borne largely by the fact that she disappeared. Can anyone here (without using Google) tell us what her most famous feat of accomplishment was?
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She was a girl in an airplane doing what the boys did. In those days, that was enough to get attention. I'm glad she did what she did even though she ended up tragically. She no doubt inspired a lot of women to get out there, stand up for themselves and live life.
 
We were in DC a couple summers ago on vacation. One of my favorite museums we visited was the National Portrait Gallery - I thought it was fascinating. They happenned to have a special gallery dedicated to Amelia at the time. One of the items on display was a letter she wrote. In addition to her signature at the bottom, she included a handprint; she had tiny hands.
 
I still think it was hijacked and landed somewhere. Not even a seat cushion has washed up. The tail and other debris from 447 was found floating.
 
us AAirways said:
I still think it was hijacked and landed somewhere. Not even a seat cushion has washed up. The tail and other debris from 447 was found floating.
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Yeah? Where? Get out a map and speculate. This story is ridiculously stale and could use a new theory. Let's hear it. Where did it land?
 
Silvaire said:
To be honest I think Amelia Earhart's celebrity is borne largely by the fact that she disappeared. Can anyone here (without using Google) tell us what her most famous feat of accomplishment was?
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She was first woman to cross Atlantic by air, firstly as a passenger, and later solo.
 
Dav8or said:
Yeah? Where? Get out a map and speculate. This story is ridiculously stale and could use a new theory. Let's hear it. Where did it land?
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Better still, get out a globe. The amount of ocean compared to land mass should convince anyone that 'something as big as a 777' can disappear without a trace.
 
The reason why the thread is stale is because they haven't come out with anything new as of yet. We will revisit when new information comes out.
 
Silvaire said:
To be honest I think Amelia Earhart's celebrity is borne largely by the fact that she disappeared. Can anyone here (without using Google) tell us what her most famous feat of accomplishment was?
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Bad haircuts.

FloridaPilot said:
The reason why the thread is stale is because they haven't come out with anything new as of yet. We will revisit when new information comes out.
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You don't say. Thanks man. We would have never figured that one out. ;)
 
3393RP said:
Better still, get out a globe. The amount of ocean compared to land mass should convince anyone that 'something as big as a 777' can disappear without a trace.
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Does anyone have Globes anymore? I thought atlases were outdated, but globes? Last time I saw one of those was in the 4th grade.
 
eman1200 said:
Does anyone have [g]lobes anymore? I thought atlases were outdated, but globes?
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I have one. Globes are beautiful. And all flat, static projections of spheres introduce distortions of one sort or another. They're not adequate replacements.

But you don't need a physical globe. Google Earth's globe simulation works well, too.
 
eman1200 said:
Does anyone have Globes anymore? I thought atlases were outdated, but globes? Last time I saw one of those was in the 4th grade.
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a8u7e3uj.jpg


The pushpins are where dad got to go, mostly courtesy of the US Navy. The platter is from Italy.
 
eman1200 said:
Does anyone have Globes anymore? I thought atlases were outdated, but globes? Last time I saw one of those was in the 4th grade.
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I have one on my desk. I read a lot of history books and a globe is the only way to get the proper sense of distances involved in naval campaigns and such. Flat projections just don't provide the proper perspective.
 
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