LSA weight limit to be increased to 3600 lb!

I read something else - one of the other boards - that this is actually EAA's proposal. They want to raise the sport limit to 3600 lbs.

That doesn't mean it is going to happen, but they are campaigning for it. That would bring a LOT of aircraft into the sport field, including every RV out there. Might be the push I need to build one.
 
bflynn said:
That doesn't mean it is going to happen, but they are campaigning for it. That would bring a LOT of aircraft into the sport field, including every RV out there. Might be the push I need to build one.
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I'd expect the 150 max speed part will likely disqualify most RV's.
 
Ravioli said:
My 6A would make weight and stall speed limits, but the max speed is too fast. Darn the luck. ;)
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It's an experimental--put a placard on the panel and a line on the ASI, then fly it however you want.

Besides, the speed limit is IAS at sea level, WOT, Full Rich, right? And WOT is wherever the builder says it is, right? :ihih:
 
I'm guessing I'm better off getting a doc to sign me off for BasicMed than trying to shoehorn my plane into E-LSA....

But on the other hand... If I can take the repairman's course and sign everything off myself I could save, nothing, since I know better than to do any of my own maintenance. But, I guess with the course I might expand my personal minimums to include removing the wheel pants.
 
Well, since this seems to be the level of journalism, let's add some more to the wishlist. I heard DL medicals for turboprops and I'll be able to slap an IO-540 on my arrow as part of this proposal, from a source high at the FAA. Lemme go make a Youtube channel and link to my "website", since that's all it takes to sound official these days.
 
This could be a big help actually. For a long time my hang up with the LSA world was that the planes had very little actual A->B utility and that's why they hadn't really caught on as people had hoped... with a 3,600 lb capacity (which, incidentally is the newer generation Cirrus gross weights) that does pave the way for 4 seats, proper load carrying abilities, and increasing the speed as well will be a major help in actually creating a viable product line. We may genuinely see new, capable planes, out there for <$400K. Many of the recreational pilots I know aren't IR and even if they are, aren't interested in hard IMC anyway.. so I'm pretty excited about this and what it will do for GA

I will point out though, that this was an EAA driven effort, and they've been at it for 2 years and also mentioned it at AirVenture..
 
Tantalum said:
This could be a big help actually. For a long time my hang up with the LSA world was that the planes had very little actual A->B utility and that's why they hadn't really caught on as people had hoped...
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Some of them do, actually, just under more limited conditions. For example, my LSA will get me from A to B faster and for much lower cost than a 172, with a nice 2-axis AP and tunes over the stereo intercom. I can carry a passenger, and a couple of overnight bags, and it's reasonably comfortable.

Of course there are people who will argue that a 172 is not a cross-country airplane, anything less than a 182 or a Mooney is strictly for burger runs. If that's the criteria, then sure. But the fact is, if you look at the broader spectrum of LSA, there are some "real airplanes" out there.
 
DaleB said:
Some of them do, actually, just under more limited conditions. For example, my LSA will get me from A to B faster and for much lower cost than a 172, with a nice 2-axis AP and tunes over the stereo intercom. I can carry a passenger, and a couple of overnight bags, and it's reasonably comfortable.

Of course there are people who will argue that a 172 is not a cross-country airplane
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haha yeah the 172 sets a pretty low bar lol but you are right, there is a guy who flies up to Big Bear decently often in the winter and he has a Sling... I want to say Sling 2, but it could be a Sling 4.. pretty cool airplane actually and if I was interested in LSA there are definitely some birds out there that are, like you said, in many ways more capable than your PA28 / 172. Cranking the weight up to 3,600 lbs will be a big game changer
 
Hardly any of non commercial GA planes have any utility beyond fun of flying.
At least at my airport, it seems that great majority of flights are just local, just for fun type of flying- RVs , Cessna, Lancair, LSAs -doesn’t matter.
 
Warmi said:
Hardly any of non commercial GA planes have any utility beyond fun of flying.
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I mean, I guess it depends on your mission and geographically where you are. Most of the pilots I know where I am, I would say at least 9 out of 10 of them, use a plane for active utility. nothing crazy, but from San Diego there are a ton of really cool airports within 3 hours that would not be feasible by car
 
It's now 9 years later....

Press release: The FAA is forming a second discussion committee to reexamine results of the 2019 scientific & engineering analysis demonstrating low safety liabilities and a renaissance of American aviation....
 
...and primary non commercial is still snuffed without a peep as to why from the FAA. Which as opposed to this viral online troll pipedream, was actually signed into law by POTUS. But hey this time will be different, sub-3600 lb 170kt 4-6 seat cruisers under LSA medial allowances, and no performance restrictions to the organic capability of said existing sub-3600 airplanes...but primary non commercial is blasphemy..as signed law. Ok then.

..back to trolling barnstormers for candy to steal....
 
Tantalum said:
haha yeah the 172 sets a pretty low bar lol but you are right, there is a guy who flies up to Big Bear decently often in the winter and he has a Sling... I want to say Sling 2, but it could be a Sling 4.. pretty cool airplane actually and if I was interested in LSA there are definitely some birds out there that are, like you said, in many ways more capable than your PA28 / 172. Cranking the weight up to 3,600 lbs will be a big game changer
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I fly a Sling 2, S-LSA from LA-NY a couple/few times a year. Usually takes two days, but last time I did it in one, with 2 fuel stops (and a good tail wind.) I'm considering selling it but that's because I want a plane I can fly in IMC if needed. I trained for and received an Instrument Rating in the Sling, but unless I swap it to E-LSA (and hurt the resale value) I can't even fly through a layer in the S-LSA. That's something I wish the NPRM would address.
 
Cogito said:
I trained for and received an Instrument Rating in the Sling, but unless I swap it to E-LSA (and hurt the resale value) I can't even fly through a layer in the S-LSA
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Very interesting, thanks. I did not know you could do that, IE, train for and earn your IR in a plane that you can't technically fly IMC with. What would you be looking to get instead? I'm clearly biased towards Cirrus, BUT, if you are partial to something else then the Lancair Mako is a serious machine. For the price tag I don't know why anyone would buy something like a 172 / PA28 vs Mako. With a serious cruise speed, proper useful load, and a host of other features I would expect this plane to be a very hot seller

http://lancair.com/for-sale/2018-lancair-mako/
 
The 3600 GW proposal is interesting. The Jabiru 230/250 and Jabiru 430/450 share the same airframe. The only difference is the 430/450 Jabiru has a GW of around 1500 lbs., and maybe a higher cruise speed. I'm a big guy and my wife isn't miniature, and doesn't know how to pack light, so an extra 180 lbs. would make the Jabiru series a lot more interesting.
 
Crashnburn said:
The 3600 lb. LSA is a non-starter, and the NPRM in Jan 2019 is also a non-starter. ::(
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The 3600 lb across the board line in the sand is a non-starter. But the actual story, a formula based system that could qualify certain aircraft weighing as much as 3600 lbs is still good news. Very good news. Lets face it, that they're having the discussion at all is good news no matter how you slice it.
 
Crashnburn said:
The 3600 GW proposal is interesting. The Jabiru 230/250 and Jabiru 430/450 share the same airframe. The only difference is the 430/450 Jabiru has a GW of around 1500 lbs., and maybe a higher cruise speed. I'm a big guy and my wife isn't miniature, and doesn't know how to pack light, so an extra 180 lbs. would make the Jabiru series a lot more interesting.
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Richard, there are other options out there if you dig deep. I hear your desire for more useful load; others have a desire for more cruise speed. One option is a private rating with a certificated airplane. ;) If you want a motorcycle for transportation/economy, don’t blame the motorcycle for not being a pickup truck when you want to haul some lumber. :) I’m not saying you’re acting this way, but many LSA owners/pilots are. LSA is a limit on weight, passengers, and speed. Want more? Get a higher rating and a non-LSA limited airplane. What’s the problem here?
 
NordicDave said:
It's now 9 years later....

Press release: The FAA is forming a second discussion committee to reexamine results of the 2019 scientific & engineering analysis demonstrating low safety liabilities and a renaissance of American aviation....
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Seems almost silly, all the time wasted on aviation boards discussing this. Never happen. CAN'T EVEN get the LSA weight boosted to 1650lbs.
 
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Lachlan said:
Richard, there are other options out there if you dig deep. I hear your desire for more useful load; others have a desire for more cruise speed. One option is a private rating with a certificated airplane. ;) If you want a motorcycle for transportation/economy, don’t blame the motorcycle for not being a pickup truck when you want to haul some lumber. :) I’m not saying you’re acting this way, but many LSA owners/pilots are. LSA is a limit on weight, passengers, and speed. Want more? Get a higher rating and a non-LSA limited airplane. What’s the problem here?
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Yes, as long as I can pass a 3rd class medical, I can get a PPL and drive a certified plane. The problem comes when I can't pass a 3rd class and am restricted to the LSA category (as others are already). I tip the scales, bare naked, about 230 lbs. My doctor says I don't have any weight to lose.My wife struggles to stay below 180. That's 410 lbs. right there.

When we travel, we each have 25 lbs. of carry on, and a 50 lb. suitcase. That's another 100 lbs.

Most LSA's burn 5 GPH. If you want 3 hours of cruise, and 1 hour of reserve, that's 120 lbs.

So, 510 + 100 + 120 = 730 lbs.

I'm also 6'3", and have broad shoulders. I don't know of many LSAs with that kind of useful load, with enough head and shoulder room for me. Heck, I even have trouble finding certified, or Experimental planes that fit. I can barely shoehorn into a Skyhawk, and I turn a C-152 into a single seater.

But, I doubt I'm the only one in this boat.
 
Lachlan said:
Richard, there are other options out there if you dig deep. I hear your desire for more useful load; others have a desire for more cruise speed. One option is a private rating with a certificated airplane. ;) If you want a motorcycle for transportation/economy, don’t blame the motorcycle for not being a pickup truck when you want to haul some lumber. :) I’m not saying you’re acting this way, but many LSA owners/pilots are. LSA is a limit on weight, passengers, and speed. Want more? Get a higher rating and a non-LSA limited airplane. What’s the problem here?
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flyingcheesehead said:
Have you heard of BasicMed?
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I have a private pilot certificate. I'm just flying with Sport Pilot privileges, and unless/until the FAA changes its policies on certain medical processes* that's not going to change. So yeah, I'll continue to support, ask for, and lobby for whatever regulations might give me and others in my situation more capability.



*If I apply for an SI to get in under BasicMed and get denied, I'm prohibited from flying, period, other than ultralights, gliders, and balloons. LSA included. None of those meet my requirements. If I don't apply for the SI, then I can still fly LSA - legally - even with the same condition that would most likely cause my application for the SI to be denied. Of course there is a small chance I could get the SI, but if not -- toast. Aviation death penalty for even attempting, no way to un-do it. If that were not the case, I'd apply for the SI and possibly be able to continue under Basic Med. Logic failure to be sure, but I'm sure it isn't going to change any time soon.
 
It would be nice to have access to more capable, and affordable, two-seaters, like Cessna 140s and Grumman Yankees. Only their MGW keeps them out of reach. I’m content with my Luscombe for now, but I’m considering a Kitfox in a few years.
 
Keep in mind that Light Sport came about mainly as a way to regulate “fat” ultralights. If the Feds had wanted a level playing field they could have adopted the more generous european weight specs.
 
Crashnburn said:
Heck, I even have trouble finding certified, or Experimental planes that fit. I can barely shoehorn into a Skyhawk, and I turn a C-152 into a single seater.

But, I doubt I'm the only one in this boat.
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Despite all their popularity, I've always thought skyhawks were unconscionably small in front. Never say never but I can't imagine ever owning one. Just too dang small.
 
Crashnburn said:
Yes, as long as I can pass a 3rd class medical, I can get a PPL and drive a certified plane. The problem comes when I can't pass a 3rd class and am restricted to the LSA category (as others are already). I tip the scales, bare naked, about 230 lbs. My doctor says I don't have any weight to lose.My wife struggles to stay below 180. That's 410 lbs. right there.

When we travel, we each have 25 lbs. of carry on, and a 50 lb. suitcase. That's another 100 lbs.

Most LSA's burn 5 GPH. If you want 3 hours of cruise, and 1 hour of reserve, that's 120 lbs.

So, 510 + 100 + 120 = 730 lbs.

I'm also 6'3", and have broad shoulders. I don't know of many LSAs with that kind of useful load, with enough head and shoulder room for me. Heck, I even have trouble finding certified, or Experimental planes that fit. I can barely shoehorn into a Skyhawk, and I turn a C-152 into a single seater.

But, I doubt I'm the only one in this boat.
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Most LSAs are already wider and roomier than a lot of certified planes ( including 172s ) so it just a matter of increasing gross and with Rotax 915is up front, these would make for an awesome, modern planes
 
You know, it's always nice to ask for more than you expect. I wouldn't post an item on Craigslist for $1000 hoping for $1250. Ask for more, if you get less, don't be surprised.
 
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