LSA weight limit to be increased to 3600 lb!

DaleB said:
Expect manufacturers to fight that tooth and nail.
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This is probably bigger than all the other parts of the announcement. Van's has taken the RV12 SLSA builds in house, and now they could take the whole lineup in house and sell them complete, just with an Experimental sticker.
 
Half Fast said:
If it’s a mistake, the statement about flying a 172 with 4 seats doesn’t make any sense. Time will tell...
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Unless the 172 part is Pelton’s editorial comment rooted in the misunderstanding that’s being discussed here.

Advocacy groups can suggest or request or petition for anything and everything. None of this has any teeth whatsoever until the FAA backs it up with something in writing or an attributable and verifiable public statement. Maybe they will. Or just maybe...

Nauga,
the skeptic
 
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nauga said:
And on that date the FAA will release the NPRM, according to Jack Pelton. Note the commas.
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I see that now that you mention it. I would have worded it differently to avoid confusion.

"Pelton said the FAA will publish a notice of proposed rulemaking on January 19, 2019, that seeks to raise the weight limit for light sport aircraft from the current 1,320 pounds to 3,600 pounds."
 
Someone nailed it earlier... The new LSA discussion is about the 1650lbs number someone thought was 1650kg. EASA is also contemplating ~1650kg LSA limit.
 
I agree it's 750kg which is 1650lbs. Someone thought 1650lbs was kg's and converted it to 3600lbs.

If ANYONE can recall a time when the FAA made such a bold move as increasing LSA weight from 1320lbs to 3600lbs, I'll start to believe it.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
??????????

Similar?

You don't need an FAA medical to take the sport pilot route.
You do need an FAA medical to take the basicmed route.

Doesn't seem to be the least bit similar to me.
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My point is, I can see a point in the future where the average GA pilot will no longer need a FAA medical. The Basicmed rules and Sport Pilot rules will likely be merged at some point. Perhaps the medical requirements (or lack thereof) of the Sport Pilot license, with the aircraft allowed under Basicmed. Perhaps you have will still need a one time medical like under Basicmed. But I can certainly see some more changes on the horizon. Perhaps even get rid of the 3rd class altogether, or only require a medical for commercial operations or for larger, faster aircraft.

Lets face it, a 5 year 3rd Class Medical is scarcely better than no medical at all. A lot can happen in 5 years.
 
wanttaja said:
See the link in Post 45.

Ron Wanttaja
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Sorry - meant an official printed statement from the FAA...something in the Federal Register maybe? I know an official said so in a speech, but I was looking for something written.
 
bflynn said:
Sorry - meant an official printed statement from the FAA...something in the Federal Register maybe? I know an official said so in a speech, but I was looking for something written.
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Same here...and if it was said "in a speech" I wonder why the speaker isn't named. Something just doesn't smell right.

Nauga,
snowballing
 
nauga said:
Unless the 172 part is Pelton’s editorial comment rooted in the misunderstanding that’s being discussed here.
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Perhaps, but Pelton's background (former Senior VP of Engineering, and later CEO, of Cessna) suggests he's very knowledgeable on the subject matter. Fingers crossed here.
 
Pilawt said:
Perhaps, but Pelton's background (former Senior VP of Engineering, and later CEO, of Cessna) suggests he's very knowledgeable on the subject matter. Fingers crossed here.
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I would be very happy to be proven wrong. :cool:

Nauga,
whose fingers are crossed but breath not held
 
bflynn said:
Sorry - meant an official printed statement from the FAA...something in the Federal Register maybe? I know an official said so in a speech, but I was looking for something written.
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Well, the posted link says the NPRM will come out in January...that would be the first official statement, I'd say.

I'm inclined toward believing the lbs/kg mixup.

Ron Wanttaja
 
So if this were found to be true which I still highly doubt, can anyone guess what the international implications would be in regards to sport pilots without medical flying said heavy light sport planes across borders?

How about maintenance? Will a light sport repairman now be able to work on these aircraft and will their annual now be a conditional inspection done by a repairman and not an IA?

Will they be able to be switched over to ELSA by a DAR and then have all the maintenance done by anybody?

Well I guess this is one way to solve the mechanic shortage that some think exists.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
Go back in time. What was the point of LSA? And the part 23 rewrite?

What is the accident ratio of LSA versus certified? Especially when you remove pilot error. Sure LSA had some teething pains. But that largely seems over.

Sent from my SM-J737T using Tapatalk
 
SkyDog58 said:
can anyone guess what the international implications would be in regards to sport pilots without medical flying said heavy light sport planes across borders?
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Same as they are now? No can do - 'cept Bahama, momma.

SkyDog58 said:
How about maintenance? Will a light sport repairman now be able to work on these aircraft and will their annual now be a conditional inspection done by a repairman and not an IA?
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If it's the same as now, then any aircraft newly certificated under SLSA, ELSA rules could be worked on / inspected by a light sport maroon.
Legacy aircraft certificated under CAR or Part twentywhateveritis rules, you gots to be an A&P / AI to do that stuff. A small detail that seems to have been missed by at least some with the light and sporty repairperson certificate.

SkyDog58 said:
Will they be able to be switched over to ELSA by a DAR and then have all the maintenance done by anybody?
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Right now that only can be done with something that is SLSA - can't do that with yer Cub or 172.
 
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If Avweb's latest article is on track the change is more about relaxing restrictions on new airplane development than opening up the category to the current fleet. Side-stepping part 23 and allowing new planes using the ASTM model that LSA uses could be a great boost to GA. I hope it happens. A stronger GA is good for all of us.
 
Stewartb said:
If Avweb's latest article is on track the change is more about relaxing restrictions on new airplane development than opening up the category to the current fleet. Side-stepping part 23 and allowing new planes using the ASTM model that LSA uses could be a great boost to GA. I hope it happens. A stronger GA is good for all of us.
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This is right on. Sometimes a set of standards gets calcified to a point they need to be entombed and new set of standards and practices put forth.
 
also have not read anywhere if it applies to aircraft only to allow easy entry by manufactures and owner self maintenance or to sport pilot rule or both?
 
SkyDog58 said:
So if this were found to be true which I still highly doubt, can anyone guess what the international implications would be in regards to sport pilots without medical flying said heavy light sport planes across borders?

How about maintenance? Will a light sport repairman now be able to work on these aircraft and will their annual now be a conditional inspection done by a repairman and not an IA?

Will they be able to be switched over to ELSA by a DAR and then have all the maintenance done by anybody?

Well I guess this is one way to solve the mechanic shortage that some think exists.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
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It does not mention the sport pilot rule or requirements to fly under sport pilot ticket.. which includes within USA only,just the classification of lsa. two different things
 
Scott VP said:
It does not mention the sport pilot rule or requirements to fly under sport pilot ticket.. which includes within USA only,just the classification of lsa. two different things
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The sport rule says that you can fly an LSA. Change the definition of LSA (1.1), you change what you can fly under the sport pilot rule.
 
Scott VP said:
It does not mention the sport pilot rule or requirements to fly under sport pilot ticket.. which includes within USA only,just the classification of lsa. two different things
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The definition of "Light Sport Aircraft" is in 14CFR Part 1. It defines what aircraft can be flown by Sport Pilots.

14CFR91.190 addresses the issuance of Special Airworthiness Certificates to aircraft that meet this criteria. It's not inconceivable that they split these; they could alter the Part 1 definition to allow 3,600 pounds, etc. while changing 21.190 to use a lower weight limit.

Ron Wanttaja
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
The sport rule says that you can fly an LSA. Change the definition of LSA (1.1), you change what you can fly under the sport pilot rule.
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\
we will have to wait until next year to see if they differentiate the 2.
personally I would like to see constant speed prop with the new single lever system.
which rotax has with the 915, rotax is no slouch and must have some market research / knowledge of the future.
miss the days of the 210 cruise speeds, but not the cost :)
 
wanttaja said:
The definition of "Light Sport Aircraft" is in 14CFR Part 1. It defines what aircraft can be flown by Sport Pilots.

14CFR91.190 addresses the issuance of Special Airworthiness Certificates to aircraft that meet this criteria. It's not inconceivable that they split these; they could alter the Part 1 definition to allow 3,600 pounds, etc. while changing 21.190 to use a lower weight limit.

Ron Wanttaja
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bingo that is what I am thinking
 
then again thinking and govt agency should not be in same sentence.
 
wanttaja said:
I have a hard time believing this (though I've been spreading the word myself). If it turns out to be real, any idea where the 3,600 pounds came from? Seems like a weird number, especially if they're still going to limit to two seats. [Edit: Hmmmm...that's the gross weight of a Cirrus.)
Ron Wanttaja
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quoted from the AOPA website:

"Baker invited Jack Pelton, EAA chairman and CEO, onto the stage. On Jan. 19, 2019, Pelton said, the FAA will publish a notice of proposed rulemaking that seeks to raise the weight limit for light sport aircraft from the current 1,320 pounds to 3,600 pounds. “That will allow you to fly in a 172, have four seats in the airplane, and fly 150 mph,” said Pelton, who also anticipates a rule change that would allow professional builders to construct experimental amateur-built aircraft."

not sure where the 3600-lbs came from but I'm also unclear where the 1320-lbs came from. at least 3600 is an even number.

this could get interesting. if true and this comes about as stated by the EAA chairman there will be a razor thin difference between the PPL and SPL, primarily in max altitude MSL (SPL limited to daytime VFR, 10K MSL or 2,000 ft AGL, whichever is higher); and SPLs restricted to Class E & G airspace without the proper endorsements for B, C and D. and if we'll be permitted to fly a 4-seater like the 172 will we be able to actually carry 3-passengers?

lots of questions.

 
From AOPA:
........you can carry only one passenger in single-engine aircraft of 180 horsepower or less.....Day VFR up to 10k feet. Flights within 50 nm of departure and landing back at the same airport.

I believe that is for Recreational Pilots, not Sport Pilots.
 
rk911 said:
not sure where the 3600-lbs came from but I'm also unclear where the 1320-lbs came from. at least 3600 is an even number.
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1320 pounds is 600 kg, which I think is the limit for the European "microlight" category. I think they figured if their limits were close to the same, that the European manufacturers could sell their stuff here as LSAs with no modification, ensuring there would at least be some LSAs. And if you look at those LSAs that meet the current spec, you'll notice a fair number are European.
 
PPC1052 said:
Whoa! How are they going to make all those 172s fly that fast just by changing the regs?
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Since they are the government they will use the Halliburton weather control machine so they can guarantee you 40-50 mile per hour tailwinds no matter what. :)
 
PPC1052 said:
Whoa! How are they going to make all those 172s fly that fast just by changing the regs?
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It s easy! Just don't pull back the throttle during descent. Won't help cruise any, though.
 
PPC1052 said:
Whoa! How are they going to make all those 172s fly that fast just by changing the regs?
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While changing the laws of LSAs, they'll also change the laws of physics and mechanics....simple!
 
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