Low Altitude Flying

SoonerAviator

SoonerAviator

Final Approach
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SoonerAviator
This may be a bit of a silly question, but how does one go about getting more comfortable with low altitude flying (say 2K' AGL or less)? I understand the notion of "go out and do it" or "study the sectional", but are there other ways to increase your comfort level?

For my example, I had a flight planned recently to take a young girl up and a friend of mine. This was to be the young lady's first airplane ride, and certainly the first in a small plane. The plan was just to fly around the metro area for an hour or so and come back. However, low ceilings (2,100') and visibility 8-10sm made me scrub the flight. I went up and flew around the pattern anyway and found it not to be an issue, but was wary of flying in conditions which would obscure the tops of many of the tv/radio towers in the area. I wasn't too concerned about postponing the flight simply because I'd like the day to be nice for a young child's first trip up, just to make a good memory of it. However, I'd like to feel more comfortable flying on days like the aforementioned so that I am not scrubbing flights that could easily be done.

P.S. - getting an instrument rating isn't an acceptable answer at this point, :lol:.
 
Get a Garmin Aera with terrain database, keep it updated and stay away from the red X's.
 
8-10 miles is great visibility. When giving flightseeing tours, we usually fly 1000-1500 agl so people can easily recognize things on the ground--homes, schools, businesses, etc.
 
I'm going to largely go with the "get out and do it" answer, but...

It takes time to get used to the perspective and train yourself to look for towers, etc. You're also going to have to look at emergency options differently than at higher altitudes.

Start with very good weather, and gradually accept something lower as you get comfortable with the altitude. Give yourself escape room for when you get uncomfortable/fatigued.
 
SoonerAviator said:
This may be a bit of a silly question, but how does one go about getting more comfortable with low altitude flying (say 2K' AGL or less)? I understand the notion of "go out and do it" or "study the sectional", but are there other ways to increase your comfort level?

For my example, I had a flight planned recently to take a young girl up and a friend of mine. This was to be the young lady's first airplane ride, and certainly the first in a small plane. The plan was just to fly around the metro area for an hour or so and come back. However, low ceilings (2,100') and visibility 8-10sm made me scrub the flight. I went up and flew around the pattern anyway and found it not to be an issue, but was wary of flying in conditions which would obscure the tops of many of the tv/radio towers in the area. I wasn't too concerned about postponing the flight simply because I'd like the day to be nice for a young child's first trip up, just to make a good memory of it. However, I'd like to feel more comfortable flying on days like the aforementioned so that I am not scrubbing flights that could easily be done.

P.S. - getting an instrument rating isn't an acceptable answer at this point, :lol:.
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Get a job flying pipeline, you become real comfortable cruising and hard core maneuvering below 100' AGL real fast, or you quit after your first training run.:lol:
 
I think you made the right decision since you had first-timers going with you. Don't want to spoil the first ride.

As far as low altitude flying, I don't like to fly lower than the sectionals show as minimum safe unless I am familiar with the area. I fly lower a lot of times around home, but I know where the towers are. Towers can be missed if the lights are out, and the lights are out on a lot of towers a lot of the time (check the NOTAMs). The guy wires on the tall towers can be a good distance from the tower also. You can study a sectional and find where the towers around you are.
 
MauleSkinner said:
. . . It takes time to get used to the perspective and train yourself to look for towers, etc. You're also going to have to look at emergency options differently than at higher altitudes.

Start with very good weather, and gradually accept something lower as you get comfortable with the altitude. Give yourself escape room for when you get uncomfortable/fatigued.
Click to expand...

I agree that there likely isn't a much better way of learning it outside of putting yourself in the situation. Luckily the Tulsa area still provides a lot of emergency landing options, especially around the outskirts, if the situation should arise. I am very familiar with the area, but aside from the most notable towers, I have never needed to avoid anything when flying at 3K' AGL or better on burger runs or XC's.

Henning said:
Get a job flying pipeline, you become real comfortable cruising and hard core maneuvering below 100' AGL real fast, or you quit after your first training run.:lol:
Click to expand...

Plenty of experience to be gained there, but I might be busting a few FAA regs since I don't have the Comm rating. :D
 
somorris said:
I think you made the right decision since you had first-timers going with you. Don't want to spoil the first ride.

As far as low altitude flying, I don't like to fly lower than the sectionals show as minimum safe unless I am familiar with the area. I fly lower a lot of times around home, but I know where the towers are. Towers can be missed if the lights are out, and the lights are out on a lot of towers a lot of the time (check the NOTAMs). The guy wires on the tall towers can be a good distance from the tower also. You can study a sectional and find where the towers around you are.
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Agreed.

I would suggest planning the heck out of such a flight. Start with the sectional and understand every single graphic within a 25 mile area. Review all obstruction heights and locations, etc. Then do the flight in CAVU conditions.

Don't underestimate the ease with which you can find obstructions to run into, even ones you are familiar with. Just like traffic, obstructions are best avoided using altitude. If you are higher than the highest obstruction in the area, you won't hit it.
 
I second Fearless in that you're gonna want some sort of GPS device that depicts Antennas. A paper sectional really isn't going to give you the detail that you need in a high density area. You want something with smaller scale and more detail (GPS / HTAWS).

Outside of that, give yourself good safety margins. 1,000 AGL with a 1,500-2,000 ft ceiling is fine for a small plane in a metro area. You're probably gonna have a half a dozen 1,000-2,000 ft AGL antennas to deal with. They're fairly easy to identify during the day. Just maintain a good 2,000 ft horizontal from them. The antenna itself isn't the major threat, it's the guy wires that come off it that you can't see. Years ago in the Army a UH-60 hit a guy wire while flying in bad weather in TX. Sliced the aircraft down the middle like a hot knife thru butter. I have no doubt they saw the antenna but didn't realize how far the guy wires extended off it.

If you plan on doing this flight at night, I personally wouldn't fly anything less than the highest anntenna in your area. Just review a sectional and find the highest one before flight. When I fly around ATL at night i go with 2,000 AGL (highest tower) unless I'm in an area that im thoroughly familiar with or on approach to landing to a helipad. Even under NVGs unlit towers are extremely hard to see and sometimes there are tall ones NOTAMd out for days. Even with HTAWS alerting me where the antenna is, it's such a dense area it's hard to filter out which antenna "she's" yelling at. So, at night, while sight seeing, don't go between antennas. Too hard to maintain a safe and legal distance, especially if you're being distracted by a passenger. Just my advice.
 
Keep in mind that there's significant lag with towers and sectional charts...on one trip I made, I saw 5 towers above my altitude ( and sticking into the clouds) that weren't on the sectional.:hairraise:
 
somorris said:
I think you made the right decision since you had first-timers going with you. Don't want to spoil the first ride.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I wasn't too upset about it, but I've had a few situations occur before where I scrubbed the flight when it wasn't CAVU when I likely could have done the flight without too much concern.

somorris said:
As far as low altitude flying, I don't like to fly lower than the sectionals show as minimum safe unless I am familiar with the area. I fly lower a lot of times around home, but I know where the towers are. Towers can be missed if the lights are out, and the lights are out on a lot of towers a lot of the time (check the NOTAMs). The guy wires on the tall towers can be a good distance from the tower also. You can study a sectional and find where the towers around you are.
Click to expand...

I agree about tower lights and such, the issue often seems to be the volume of NOTAMs to sort through if you are circling a larger area versus just noting the couple of towers that might be an issue while transiting en route. I'm not as worried about the handful of easily-seen towers that run up at 2,500'-2,600' MSL (1900' AGL) and are grouped together, it's the dozen or so that run about 1,300'-1,500' MSL that are erratically placed throughout the metro area that make me apprehensive. Map study is probably the best way to get it done, and maintaining situational awareness.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Keep in mind that there's significant lag with towers and sectional charts...on one trip I made, I saw 5 towers above my altitude ( and sticking into the clouds) that weren't on the sectional.:hairraise:
Click to expand...

When I was flying pipeline, a new cell tower would pop up on my route weekly. Not a big deal with good visibility, but on those runs where you are pressing through because it's the last day you can do the run and the weather is still crap, they can bring about some "oh crap" maneuvering. Luckily they don't have wires.
 
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Years ago, it was a breeze, today not only is low flight frowned upon but back a ways there were NO towers to speak of. Today they are everywhere and can kill you quick. Memorizing them would be ok if you were not apt to forget one, which is all it takes. Not worth it, plus, airplanes are usually OLD nowadays. Engine quits, little time to decide where your going to ATTEMPT to land. If the sun is just right, and your not watching closely, easy to die. Don't count on the strobes either, many are cheap , faint, hard to see.
 
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I gotta admit those antennas give me the willies. There's just something unnatural about them. We don't have many out west here because they can usually just stick a small one on top of a mountain but there is a cluster out in the valley by Walnut Grove with a couple of them over 2000 feet. I remember flying out in Florida, the things are all over the place and passing through Houston there was a big "farm" of the darn things just south of town.

But even freakier are those unmarked tethered balloons that belong to the DEA or somebody. There's one in Key West and another in New Mexico that I know of. They go up to 15,000 feet on a dang cable! :eek: They have Restricted zones on the charts but I think a family did hit the one in Florida one time.
 
Silvaire said:
I gotta admit those antennas give me the willies. There's just something unnatural about them. We don't have many out west here because they can usually just stick a small one on top of a mountain but there is a cluster out in the valley by Walnut Grove with a couple of them over 2000 feet. I remember flying out in Florida, the things are all over the place and passing through Houston there was a big "farm" of the darn things just south of town.

But even freakier are those unmarked tethered balloons that belong to the DEA or somebody. There's one in Key West and another in New Mexico that I know of. They go up to 15,000 feet on a dang cable! :eek: They have Restricted zones on the charts but I think a family did hit the one in Florida one time.
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The tether in the Keys has claimed more than one plane. Always stay on the Atlantic side of the Keys flying down.
 
Velocity173 said:
I second Fearless in that you're gonna want some sort of GPS device that depicts Antennas.
Click to expand...

My only concern would be my current lack of familiarity with any GPS, and the focus of my attention being inside the cockpit versus outside. However, it's definitely a possibility as the aircraft I rent has a 430W that I was forced to learn the bare minimum this past weekend, lol. I taught myself to enter and switch comm frequencies so I could run around the pattern, learning the VFR highpoints would probably be a good idea as well.

Velocity173 said:
If you plan on doing this flight at night, I personally wouldn't fly anything less than the highest anntenna in your area . . . Too hard to maintain a safe and legal distance, especially if you're being distracted by a passenger. Just my advice.
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Wouldn't even consider doing this flight at night, for all of the reasons you stated. I wouldn't fly at night anywhere with an altitude below MSA aside from departure/arrival. To be honest I wouldn't fly outside of the pattern without some additional night instruction due to my minimum private exam requirements being the only night flights I've done. :eek:
 
MauleSkinner said:
If it's a rental, I wouldn't assume a current terrain database, either.
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Possible, but easily checked. Also, these rentals are used for flight instruction pretty heavily, so I'd actually side with them being more likely to have current updates. This aircraft and a pair of G1000 C172's are the only GPS-equipped SE birds in the fleet to my knowledge, so it wouldn't take too much to keep them up-to-date. This aircraft was recently upgraded with the 430W, which is why I'm unfamiliar with it as the previous GPS was non-moving map and I only used it as a backup to VOR crosschecks and dead reckoning/pilotage.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Possible, but easily checked. Also, these rentals are used for flight instruction pretty heavily, so I'd actually side with them being more likely to have current updates. This aircraft and a pair of G1000 C172's are the only GPS-equipped SE birds in the fleet to my knowledge, so it wouldn't take too much to keep them up-to-date.
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The terrain database is different than the GPS database, you know...and not required to be current like the GPS database.
 
8-10 miles should give you plenty of time to spot the towers - particularly if you slow down. You have twice as much time at 80 than you do at 160. Obviously you are going to have to go around, not over, but picking your way through a cluster of towers is not that big a deal if you have several miles of vis.

Paper charts work fine for me. You just have to look to see what is coming up.

Don't expect the location of the tower to be exactly correct.
 
MauleSkinner said:
The terrain database is different than the GPS database, you know...and not required to be current like the GPS database.
Click to expand...

I wasn't aware of that, so that definitely would be an item of concern. I know I've seen that aspect of GPS databases discussed before in other threads, but I must have glossed over it due to not having a GPS to worry about, lol.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
8-10 miles should give you plenty of time to spot the towers - particularly if you slow down. You have twice as much time at 80 than you do at 160. Obviously you are going to have to go around, not over, but picking your way through a cluster of towers is not that big a deal if you have several miles of vis.

Paper charts work fine for me. You just have to look to see what is coming up.

Don't expect the location of the tower to be exactly correct.
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Good idea on pulling the throttle back a bit. I had intended on running around at 100KIAS or so, but if I get uncomfortable with the pace, pulling it back to 80KIAS is always an easy move.
 
I find 1000' and 3-5 miles to be comfortable in familiar areas but prefer a little more in new territory. If I slow to 120mph I cover 2 miles a minute. A minute is an eternity.

For towers and other terrain I much prefer Garmin Pilot on my mini to the Aera GPS in my panel. It's MUCH easier to navigate and select the features on the mini. There's nothing intuitive about an Aera.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Keep in mind that there's significant lag with towers and sectional charts...on one trip I made, I saw 5 towers above my altitude ( and sticking into the clouds) that weren't on the sectional.:hairraise:
Click to expand...

Were they in the Chart Update pages of the A/FD?

Bob Gardner
 
SoonerAviator said:
I wasn't aware of that, so that definitely would be an item of concern. I know I've seen that aspect of GPS databases discussed before in other threads, but I must have glossed over it due to not having a GPS to worry about, lol.
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I've had GPS driven terrain information for sometime. I use it only to the extent that I pay attention to the warnings they issue. Because I usually fly on IFR clearances where terrain avoidance is 'built in' to the process, I have not been keeping the terrain DBs current.

I don't carry any paper in the cockpit but I do use the Sectional display on Foreflight for any low flying planning work. I'd recommend the paper version if current electronic sectionals aren't available.

When doing low altitude ridge running in gliders, the Sectionals were primary references next to the ol' eyeball.
 
SoonerAviator said:
My only concern would be my current lack of familiarity with any GPS, and the focus of my attention being inside the cockpit versus outside. However, it's definitely a possibility as the aircraft I rent has a 430W that I was forced to learn the bare minimum this past weekend, lol. I taught myself to enter and switch comm frequencies so I could run around the pattern, learning the VFR highpoints would probably be a good idea as well.
Click to expand...

The Garmin Aera handhelds have an audible warning feature that will speak up if you are heading toward a threat, so it isn't like you are flying head down looking at the screen the whole time.

I never gave much thought about the terrain side of the Garmin, until I got the biplane and since then I found it pretty useful as 1000-1500 AGL is a common cruise altitude for me.
 
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MauleSkinner said:
The terrain database is different than the GPS database, you know...and not required to be current like the GPS database.
Click to expand...

And on a Garmin handheld, at least, the obstruction and terrain databases are different.

I update the obstacle database annually, and never bother with the terrain database.

That's for VFR flying, which is all I do anymore.
 
This isn't pharging rocket surgery, and you certainly don't need some scientific doohickey to avoid rocks. What is it with you guys and pharging gadgetry? Pull the throttle back and keep your eyes open and outside the damn cockpit. You won't run into anything at 80 mph if you're actually looking out.

I do most of my winter flying and some of my summer flying at about 1000 feet AGL. I get a better view, so long as it isn't too hot or bumpy. I just try and keep it above the cell towers.
 
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I think you were fine to defer, but I agree with those who pointed out that is not necessarily a big deal flying low. I do it most of the time.
The flight you were setting up was going to have you flying an unstructured route, worried about towers because you couldn't fly over them, and playing tour guide. Doing several of those things at once was probably not a big deal for you but if you felt your plate was a little full, I think you did the right thing.
As far as comfort with flying low, one keeps an eye out for landing areas and makes sure that one is able and willing to act immediately if action is indicated. Also, probably keep a closer eye than normal on airplane functions (check the gauges often, if something sounds funny check it out, etc.)
 
Henning said:
Get a job flying pipeline, you become real comfortable cruising and hard core maneuvering below 100' AGL real fast, or you quit after your first training run.:lol:
Click to expand...
Yup, this or as an AG pilot. I know one guy who was flying AG and had a midair ... with a deer.
 
jnmeade said:
I think you were fine to defer, but I agree with those who pointed out that is not necessarily a big deal flying low. I do it most of the time.
The flight you were setting up was going to have you flying an unstructured route, worried about towers because you couldn't fly over them, and playing tour guide. Doing several of those things at once was probably not a big deal for you but if you felt your plate was a little full, I think you did the right thing.
As far as comfort with flying low, one keeps an eye out for landing areas and makes sure that one is able and willing to act immediately if action is indicated. Also, probably keep a closer eye than normal on airplane functions (check the gauges often, if something sounds funny check it out, etc.)
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Agreed on all points. I don't believe it to be a big deal, but in my handful of hours (around 50TT), I've spent very little of it cruising below 2500' AGL aside from brief moments during engine-out practice or during departure/approach to land. I mainly started this thread as a solicitation for info regarding the practice. You never know when there's a "trick to the trade" of spotting towers and obstructions outside of the sectional.
 
Henning said:
When I was flying pipeline, a new cell tower would pop up on my route weekly. Not a big deal with good visibility, but on those runs where you are pressing through because it's the last day you can do the run and the weather is still crap, they can bring about some "oh crap" maneuvering. Luckily they don't have wires.
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Aren't most cell towers around 90' to avoid the FAA hurdles for taller towers? I suspect by "low altitude" the OP isn't thinking quite that low.
 
steingar said:
This isn't pharging rocket surgery, and you certainly don't need some scientific doohickey to avoid rocks. What is it with you guys and phrasing gadgetry? Pull the throttle back and keep your eyes open and outside the damn cockpit. You won't run into anything at 80 mph if you're actually looking out.

I do most of my winter flying and some of my summer flying at about 1000 feet AGL. I get a better view, so long as it isn't too hot or bumpy. I just try and keep it above the cell towers.
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:yeahthat:

The OP seemed to be talking about 500-1000' AGL. That puts above the vast majority of towers, and the one's taller than that are readily seen if you're paying any attention at all. Just go fly. If it's a CAVU day and I'm only going less than 300 nm across the plains I'll often fly it at 600-1000' just to enjoy the view. It can also help avoid the stronger headwinds up high when westbound.
 
You got a bunch of good advice. I do a lot of fire patrol at 1,000 AGL and don't consider it to be low. Since you don't have a lot of experience, plan a route around the local area about 30 miles or so and research the obstructions. Then go fly it a few times by yourself to get comfortable with it, then take a passenger. I've used an Aera yoke mounted GPS with current nav and terrain database, and they will light up with a big red X and squawk a warning at you. Take your time and be careful.
 
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