Low Altitude Flying

Yea, I like to know the area if < 1500' (actually 2000') AGL. I've had a couple of cases where I'm looking for a landmark (e.g. water tower) to help me locate my final destination - and YEOW - THATS A BIG TOWER!.

One North of Tulsa OK got my attention once. Then there are the "cluster" of towers on a hill west of Little Rock (Once had a controller say "turn right 090" or something like that - looked over and said "unable"! We have great controllers so we worked it out pretty quickly.)

But yea, get down there - it's purdy in the fall!!
 
SoonerAviator said:
Agreed on all points. I don't believe it to be a big deal, but in my handful of hours (around 50TT), I've spent very little of it cruising below 2500' AGL aside from brief moments during engine-out practice or during departure/approach to land. I mainly started this thread as a solicitation for info regarding the practice. You never know when there's a "trick to the trade" of spotting towers and obstructions outside of the sectional.
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Tricks of the trade:

Avoid low flying on windy days leeward of mountain ridges.
Roads generally do not have towers directly above them.
Roads generally do not end in box canyons unless there is a tunnel.
Avoid flying low altitude in the center of narrow canyons; flying to one side or the other affords more room for a 180 degree turn.
 
It's easier to see towers against the sky (when you are below the tops) than against the ground.
 
LDJones said:
The OP seemed to be talking about 500-1000' AGL. That puts above the vast majority of towers, and the one's taller than that are readily seen if you're paying any attention at all.
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You be surprised. I've come across plenty of towers in the 500-1500' AGL realm. I routinely fly in/out of an airport with 3 towers between 1000-1300 AGL within 5 miles of the field.

That said, I agree that a review of the chart and eyes forward is the best mitigation, but the OP expressed a low confidence level. Nothing wrong with a handheld to provide backup.
 
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When I first started flying stayed low (below 2500) and always flew over family and friends house around 500ft.
So I am no stranger to the scud running, you just have to have your eyes outside more then say at 10k ft. Things happen fast.
 
Find a tower on a chart that is above 500', but below 1000'.
Locate the tower from a comfortable altitude~ 1500/2000'
Circle down around the tower keeping it and the anchor wires in sight.
Level off below the tower top- where you see the top protruding above the horizon.
Fly around the tower looking at it and the wires from al angles to train your eyes what to look for.
 
Fearless Tower said:
You be surprised. I've come across plenty of towers in the 500-1500' AGL realm. I routinely fly in/out of an airport with 3 towers between 1000-1300 AGL within 5 miles of the field.

That said, I agree that a review of the chart and eyes forward is the best mitigation, but the OP expressed a low confidence level. Nothing wrong with a handheld to provide backup.
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Ehhhh...mmmmm.... I wouldn't consider it as a back up, more as a partial and suspect source of information. It's not like it has no use, but it's supplemental at best and should never be used as any kind of primary source of obstacle information. What's charted is typically accurate, but IME there is a buttload of uncharted low level obstructions.
 
Henning said:
Ehhhh...mmmmm.... I wouldn't consider it as a back up, more as a partial and suspect source of information. It's not like it has no use, but it's supplemental at best and should never be used as any kind of primary source of obstacle information. What's charted is typically accurate, but IME there is a buttload of uncharted low level obstructions.
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You can construe it however you want. I don't think anyone here is suggesting using a GPS for terrain avoidance as a primary or only source. I sure as hell don't.
 
Fearless Tower said:
You can construe it however you want. I don't think anyone here is suggesting using a GPS for terrain avoidance as a primary or only source. I sure as hell don't.
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Well, to me a "back up" is something that becomes primary info when normal primary info fails.
 
Low level ain't IFR and avionics

Look out the window, fly the plane.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Get a Garmin Aera with terrain database, keep it updated and stay away from the red X's.
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+1 and keep your head outside. :wink2:

Edit in: Disoriented and in IMC, George takes over. Wings level. Fly out. Up Down sideways ... just get out of it but stay wings level.
 
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Fly VFR under a variable 400-700' ceiling in one mile vis and I promise you'll glance at your favorite situational awareness aid fairly regularly. It may as well be one that works well and provides the info you need. Do whatever it takes to make yourself more comfortable. No harm, no foul.
 
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Low level pilots are dangerous at any altitude.
 
Fearless Tower said:
That's your advice?

Okay, so he's higher, but still disoriented and likely in the clouds at that point as a non-IR pilot.

I'll stick with my recommendation.
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Well, if I ****ed myself that hard for visibility that I can't see antennas out the window and am scud running low using an iPad to navigate, I have 2 basic choices, rely on an unreliable database and pray that I don't end up dead by a guide wire like my Ag instructor, or I can just admit I ****ed myself and land on the nearest usable road or field.

Which option do you think I would choose?
 
One suggestion would be to fly around the area of interest at the lower altitude on clear days, so that you can become familiar with the obstacles.
 
warthog1984 said:
Strangely enough, since I've designed several, I do. They are usually well below 500AGL and the few that aren't are either substantial structures lit and painted with A/C markings or strung across a valley at the ridgeline.
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The ones that span rises on the sides of the road/river/lake/canyon are the ones that always snag people.
 
Henning said:
Well, if I ****ed myself that hard for visibility that I can't see antennas out the window and am scud running low using an iPad to navigate, I have 2 basic choices, rely on an unreliable database and pray that I don't end up dead by a guide wire like my Ag instructor, or I can just admit I ****ed myself and land on the nearest usable road or field.

Which option do you think I would choose?
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Need to check your reading comprehension. I never suggested head down looking at an iPad.
 
To quell a bit of the argument from my perspective, a handheld obstacle/terrain database would probably be less of a "backup" and more of a "supplemental" device. I'd really only want to use it to aid me in general vectors around obstacles, but it wouldn't be my primary source of info (my eyes). However, should it occur that I got into MVFR/IFR conditions, I think my first thought would be to climb to MSA and maintain wings level. At that point, my mind set is no longer about navigating around obstacles, but contacting ATC and getting vectors toward an airport in the clear or at least a doable approach.

Of course the other option is to drop down and find a suitable landing spot, but that may provide as many complications (power lines, fences, trees, towers) as maintaining the low-level MVFR flight. I'd just assume switch my brain over to instruments and set the power, and focus on the altimeter and AI while getting assistance from those in ATC. In reality, I'd find it difficult at this point in my flying career to ever be in an IFR/MVFR situation due to my tendencies to be a fair-weather flyer. I'm toying with lower than desired ceilings, but I'm not sacrificing visibility at this point. For the purposes of this discussion, I am talking about a 30mi. radius around the metro area so if conditions were to worsen I'd be less than 15 minutes from the home airport, and less than 5 minutes from any other usable strip.
 
Maule Skinner,

You make an excellent point re: the update requirements for land-based obstructions vs. GPS data. So that I can give a reference in other forums, could you please give FAA/FAR references which point this out ? Thanks

And for the OP, here in the East the recent eruption of Natural Gas rigs has resulted in an weed-like growth of towers which are supposed to be lighted but are routinely not. Notams are sometimes available with this information but this is (for a number of reasons) not reliable. Be sure to either become aware of these pirate locations or stay above the charted MSA.

Dale
 
OP, there have been many times I go flying and after a few hours have to gain altitude to get into the pattern of the airport. Low & slow is the way to go. ;)
 
LDJones said:
Aren't most cell towers around 90' to avoid the FAA hurdles for taller towers? I suspect by "low altitude" the OP isn't thinking quite that low.
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180ft actually. Accounts for putting a 19'11" antenna on top. 200ft or higher requires compliant paint and/or lighting. Vicinity of an airport can bring those numbers lower though.
 
In addition to the excellent answers here advising caution (OP: ignore the stupid macho posturing), I suggest every pilot get "The Thinking Pilot's Flight Manual" by Rick Durden, which has a lot about low altitude flying and scud running. I pretty much don't fly below 1000' AGL anymore away from airports; there's just too many towers, cables, wires, and bitter people all too eager to report you.
 
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What's the point of taking a vanilla GA plane above 1,000'? All sense of speed is gone, leaving you in a boring, uncomfortable, noisy box.
 
ClimbnSink said:
What's the point of taking a vanilla GA plane above 1,000'? All sense of speed is gone, leaving you in a boring, uncomfortable, noisy box.
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TAS and efficiency increase with altitude to around 9500 feet on most normally aspirated planes and get even better even higher in turbo equipped planes. I'm with you though, most of my traveling happens below 1000' AGL for the view.
 
Edgefly said:
Maule Skinner,

You make an excellent point re: the update requirements for land-based obstructions vs. GPS data. So that I can give a reference in other forums, could you please give FAA/FAR references which point this out ? Thanks

Dale
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The Limitations section of your terrain warning system will be lacking a requirement for a current database.
 
X-country, I try to stay at or above whatever the box says MERSA is in unfamiliar skys.
 
Henning said:
Get a job flying pipeline, you become real comfortable cruising and hard core maneuvering below 100' AGL real fast, or you quit after your first training run.:lol:
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Got a friend doing that stuff now. Young guy.

An airplane he flew over 800 hours in, a couple of years ago, was crashed by a 28 year old yesterday near Odessa with a fatal outcome. His first time hearing that a plane he flew for his job, was destroyed with a fatal. Probably won't be the last.

My friend drove up from the new work place near Midland to hang out with the shocked former co-workers in Odessa tonight. He didn't know the kid.

http://www.newswest9.com/story/27686034/officials-on-the-scene-of-plane-crash-in-west-odessa

Kid was from Colorado. Haven't had a chance to talk to his instructor, who recently retired for medical reasons. I'm sure he'll be upset.

Other folks who I know, live a five minute walk from the instructor's house and after we chatted on the phone about it tonight, were going to walk over to tell him in person, in case he hadn't already heard.

Tomorrow they all get in their respective airplanes and go do it again. There aren't any "safety stand downs" (or even any calls from the boss to anyone about it, supposedly) in the pipeline patrol biz.

Crank 'em up and go...
 
Silvaire said:
I gotta admit those antennas give me the willies. There's just something unnatural about them. We don't have many out west here because they can usually just stick a small one on top of a mountain but there is a cluster out in the valley by Walnut Grove with a couple of them over 2000 feet. I remember flying out in Florida, the things are all over the place and passing through Houston there was a big "farm" of the darn things just south of town.
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Silvaire I know exactly the towers you are mentioning. They are insanely
tall and give me the creeps too. The tallest is 2049' AGL and is the
6th tallest structure in the world. If you take a left on the first dirt
road after Snodgrass Slough going west on Twin Cities road off of
I-5 you can drive right up to the base of one of those beasts. Freaky
man. Freaky.
 
Fearless Tower said:
You be surprised. I've come across plenty of towers in the 500-1500' AGL realm. I routinely fly in/out of an airport with 3 towers between 1000-1300 AGL within 5 miles of the field.

That said, I agree that a review of the chart and eyes forward is the best mitigation, but the OP expressed a low confidence level. Nothing wrong with a handheld to provide backup.
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No question there are many tall towers. But the cell towers aren't very tall and comprise 190,000 or so total towers. I couldn't find a count on other towers but I'd bet it's substantially fewer.
 
Palmpilot said:
One suggestion would be to fly around the area of interest at the lower altitude on clear days, so that you can become familiar with the obstacles.
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That's what a good friend did to map out a potential route from the nearest IFR airport to his home airport. In the process he didn't see some high tension power lines and ended up charred remains in an M20J....an image I haven't been able to remove from my mind in over 30 years.
 
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