Lost my FAA Bill of Sale

TREE_SURFER

TREE_SURFER

Filing Flight Plan
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Tree_Surfer
I bought my home built Quad City Challenger in August 2011. At that time we were in the process of settling on where to retire. We settled in New Mexico. In 2013 circumstances beyond my control took me back to PA. It was 2017 by the time we returned to Freedom Field to find thieves had taken everything including our septic tank.
The challenger in her trailer was at a different location and thus spared. All my documentation was stored in my RV which, is probably in Mexico. I have tried to navigate the FAA.gov web site to decide that they aren't happy until I'm unhappy. I would love some input on where I can download a form, which form to download and which FAA office to send it to.
I am in Deming New Mexico.
 
What's the chances of the seller duplicating the bill of sale?
 
I don't think it would be a problem. How does he go about it? Are there fees I would need to cover. Do I need to be there?
 
Why do you even need it? I never even looked at our bill of sale after we bought our plane.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
Why do you even need it? I never even looked at our bill of sale after we bought our plane.
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Other than the copy you send to the FAA, it shouldn't ever be required unless you just want it for your records. You could always get a copy of it via the tail number CD anyways, since it'll be part of the records the FAA keep.
 
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Kenny Phillips said:
Why do you even need it? I never even looked at our bill of sale after we bought our plane.
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Because I bought the plane in 2011 believing that I would soon be able to build a hanger to house her. I was mistaken. Circumstances changed my level of wealth from "comfortable" to "flat busted" I live in the Chihuahua desert. With the wings off she is safe in her trailer, however, if I take her out and put on her wings, she is now victim to the desert sun, wind and more sun, until I take her wings off and put her in the trailer. I know me. Once she is out, I'll just fly her till the desert destroys her. This cannot be. I have posted a question about a folding wing mod that would allow me to keep her. 8 years waiting for the dream to come true is a long time. The longer I let her sit the less viable the sale.
 
TREE_SURFER said:
Because I bought the plane in 2011 believing that I would soon be able to build a hanger to house her. I was mistaken. Circumstances changed my level of wealth from "comfortable" to "flat busted" I live in the Chihuahua desert. With the wings off she is safe in her trailer, however, if I take her out and put on her wings, she is now victim to the desert sun, wind and more sun, until I take her wings off and put her in the trailer. I know me. Once she is out, I'll just fly her till the desert destroys her. This cannot be. I have posted a question about a folding wing mod that would allow me to keep her. 8 years waiting for the dream to come true is a long time. The longer I let her sit the less viable the sale.
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That still doesn’t answer the question of why you need the bill of sale?
 
I think the
mkosmo said:
Other than the copy you send to the FAA, it shouldn't ever be required unless you just want it for your records. You could always get a copy of it via the tail number CD anyways, since it'll be part of the records the FAA keep.
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tail number N422TR has expired. I don't know whether or not I can get it back.
 
TREE_SURFER said:
I think the

tail number N422TR has expired. I don't know whether or not I can get it back.
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That tail number is on another plane now. You could still pay the $5 or whatever and get the associated records, though, for that old tail number. You'll have to get a new registration and a new tail number to get this airplane in the air again, though.
 
Salty said:
That still doesn’t answer the question of why you need the bill of sale?
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This being my first plane purchased, I am assuming that the bill of sale is the only document I have that provides evidence of my right of ownership, thus my tight to sell it.
 
TREE_SURFER said:
This being my first plane purchased, I am assuming that the bill of sale is the only document I have that provides evidence of my right of ownership, thus my tight to sell it.
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Is it registered? That’s a better document in my opinion.
 
mkosmo said:
That tail number is on another plane now. You could still pay the $5 or whatever and get the associated records, though, for that old tail number. You'll have to get a new registration and a new tail number to get this airplane in the air again, though.
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Ow, well that leads the next question: How might I remove the tail number from the STITTS without damaging it?
 
mkosmo said:
That tail number is on another plane now. You could still pay the $5 or whatever and get the associated records, though, for that old tail number. You'll have to get a new registration and a new tail number to get this airplane in the air again, though.
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Looks like the N # was cancelled/expired but has not been reassigned. The subject aircraft info is still there but was still under original owner Chad’s name when it expired. So it would appear that OP never registered it after buying it. Hard to say if anyone (buyer or seller) ever sent in the Bill of Sale either. If this is the case, a new Bill of Sale generated by the seller, Chad, is what will be needed.

See here.
 
SkyDog58 said:
Looks like the N # was cancelled/expired but has not been reassigned. The subject aircraft info is still there but was still under original owner Chad’s name when it expired. So it would appear that OP never registered it after buying it. Hard to say if anyone (buyer or seller) ever sent in the Bill of Sale either. If this is the case, a new Bill of Sale generated by the seller, Chad, is what will be needed.
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Good call. I misread that and assumed it was the OP who was the registrant at initial import.
 
TREE_SURFER said:
I think the

tail number N422TR has expired. I don't know whether or not I can get it back.
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simply submit the two forms and see what happens. It's on hold, it will be reassigned :)
 
TREE_SURFER said:
This being my first plane purchased, I am assuming that the bill of sale is the only document I have that provides evidence of my right of ownership, thus my tight to sell it.
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No, not really, it simply informs the FAA that the aircraft has sold, then they expect a request for registration in the new owner name address and all that.
 
mkosmo said:
How is it applied?
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Good question. I'll go out to the trailer and look at it tomorrow. As I recall I believe it looked like vinyl applique. Hmm I could ask Chad as well.
 
SkyDog58 said:
Looks like the N # was cancelled/expired but has not been reassigned. The subject aircraft info is still there but was still under original owner Chad’s name when it expired. So it would appear that OP never registered it after buying it. Hard to say if anyone (buyer or seller) ever sent in the Bill of Sale either. If this is the case, a new Bill of Sale generated by the seller, Chad, is what will be needed.

See here.
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Thank you for the good answer. You are correct in that I never sent in the bill of sale or registered in my name. I will contact Chad and have him generate a new bill of sale. Should I then contact the FSDO for my area and register the aircraft in my name even if I am intending to sell it?
 
TREE_SURFER said:
Thank you for the good answer. You are correct in that I never sent in the bill of sale or registered in my name. I will contact Chad and have him generate a new bill of sale. Should I then contact the FSDO for my area and register the aircraft in my name even if I am intending to sell it?
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DO NOT contact FSDO.. they don't do registrations, just OKC
 
TREE_SURFER said:
Thank you for the good answer. You are correct in that I never sent in the bill of sale or registered in my name. I will contact Chad and have him generate a new bill of sale. Should I then contact the FSDO for my area and register the aircraft in my name even if I am intending to sell it?
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How did you get insurance without registering it in your name? Our insurance company checked on that stuff!
 
Insurance is optional, if owned outright (I tend to forget that, being that auto is required, as is home for those who have a mortgage).
 
TREE_SURFER said:
Thank you for the good answer. You are correct in that I never sent in the bill of sale or registered in my name. I will contact Chad and have him generate a new bill of sale. Should I then contact the FSDO for my area and register the aircraft in my name even if I am intending to sell it?
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The FSDO error aside (as mentioned, they don't do registrations), if I were Chad I would absolutely insist you agree to register the airplane in your name as soon as I give you a second bill of sale and give you a deadline for doing so. I might even be upset you didn't do it when you bought it, leaving me out there hanging as the owner of record for eight years if something happened. It's not particularly good for the buyer either.
 
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midlifeflyer said:
if I were Chad I would absolutely insist you register the airplane in your name before giving you a second bill of sale and give you a deadline for doing so
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That's the problem..the FAA will not register any aircraft with out a bill of sale recording the transfer of ownership.
 
How do we know, that the seller (chad) didn't already send in a bill of sale?
 
Tom-D said:
How do we know, that the seller (chad) didn't already send in a bill of sale?
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Two reasons. (1) The OP says he had it and lost it. (2) The FAA probably would have sent it back since it wasn't accompanied by a registration request - the two are typically filed together and I have not heard of a situation with which they were filed separately. Are you aware of a procedure for the Bill of Sale and the Application for Registration filed separately?
 
midlifeflyer said:
Two reasons. (1) The OP says he had it and lost it. (2) The FAA probably would have sent it back since it wasn't accompanied by a registration request - the two are typically filed together and I have not heard of a situation with which they were filed separately. Are you aware of a procedure for the Bill of Sale and the Application for Registration filed separately?
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Many times the seller sends the bill of sale in and the buyer never requests a registration.
the old bill of sale had 3 parts, 2 went to the FAA, the pink went into the aircraft and was good to fly with for 90 days.
We don't know that didn't happen.
The 2 forms are not required to be filed together, and in most cases are not.
 
midlifeflyer said:
(2) The FAA probably would have sent it back since it wasn't accompanied by a registration request
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No the FAA would have placed the bill of sale in the aircraft's history records, and waited for a registration request. then changed the aircraft registration status to "sale reported" until the time limit ran out, then placed the registration status to "hold" as it is now.

If the OP in this thread send in a request for registration now, and there is no bill of sale on record, they will notify him to submit a bill of sale recording the transfer of owner ship from the last registered owner. (that best match what they have on record)
 
Tom-D said:
Many times the seller sends the bill of sale in and the buyer never requests a registration.
the old bill of sale had 3 parts, 2 went to the FAA, the pink went into the aircraft and was good to fly with for 90 days.
We don't know that didn't happen.
The 2 forms are not required to be filed together, and in most cases are not.
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I thin it was the other way around. The application for registration was in three parts, one of which acted as the temporary registration. It is a required form.

OTOH, while a bill of sale is a required form,the FAA form of Bill of Sale is not.

I guess I'll disagree on what happens in most cases.
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
Insurance is optional, if owned outright (I tend to forget that, being that auto is required, as is home for those who have a mortgage).
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Optional, even for liability? Only if you have nothing to lose, and you don't care about who you screw over.
 
midlifeflyer said:
I thin it was the other way around. The application for registration was in three parts, one of which acted as the temporary registration. It is a required form.

OTOH, while a bill of sale is a required form,the FAA form of Bill of Sale is not.

I guess I'll disagree on what happens in most cases.
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Yer right it is the registration request that has the pink.. my bad
 
Tom-D said:
Yer right it is the registration request that has the pink.. my bad
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Not a big deal. I remembered because I recently (finally) threw out my supply of them. I still have a scan I used for clients to help the fill them out.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Not a big deal. I remembered because I recently (finally) threw out my supply of them. I still have a scan I used for clients to help the fill them out.
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I had to check my desk drawer, to see the form.
I don't have any bill of sales either.
 
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