Liability

brien23

brien23

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Brien
In this day of liability for everything we do, how liable would a A&P be if they gave someone information on this forum that is documented and saved. The person a non A&P then goes out and uses that info in the way they interpret it, and wind up getting hurt or killed. The family and/or friends then find out you told them to do it that way. Now they find out you are involved in an aircraft maintenance business (
1f914.png
$$$$). Think a jury would award the family?
 
My guess would be zero liability. I doubt a jury would even hear the case.
 
brien23 said:
Think a jury would award the family?
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Best guess, no. But that's not say in a civil action the plaintiff doesn't try to take it for a spin if the scenario was right. From a regulatory standpoint, there's no violation except for the non-certified performing the work. There are also a couple LOIs that mention a mechanic's opinion outside the definition of performing maintenance or inspection" is nothing more than just an opinion.
 
brien23 said:
....how liable would a A&P be if they gave someone information on this forum that is documented and saved.
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To me, it seems that's equivalent to someone writing a book on aircraft maintenance, and there are many books out there. The author of such a publication doesn't get held liable, at least I've never heard of such a case.
 
Since people have successfully sued for less, I'm going to take the cynical road.
We live in a society that celebrates being a victim, especially if the "culprit" is someone with deep pockets. The person doesn't even have to be responsible, you just have to be able to draw a line from their actions to some heartstring sad sob story.
So for that reason I think the likelihood of a liability suit being successful would be directly correlated with how wealthy the survivors thought the A&P was, and how clear a path you can plot from their advice to the tragedy that occurred.

... And I say this as someone who had a deadbeat uncle who quite literally made his livelihood suing other people. I lost all faith in the US tort system decades ago.
 
brien23 said:
In this day of liability for everything we do, how liable would a A&P be if they gave someone information on this forum that is documented and saved. The person a non A&P then goes out and uses that info in the way they interpret it, and wind up getting hurt or killed. The family and/or friends then find out you told them to do it that way. Now they find out you are involved in an aircraft maintenance business (
1f914.png
$$$$). Think a jury would award the family.
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Under your theory, every ground instructor could be sued for giving mis-interpreted advice.
 
Keep in mind - you didn’t pay for that information. If they were licensed and billed for it - then you have a better case. If it’s just internet posting it can easily be explained as they weren’t acting in their capacity for whatever license they held
 
It’s also virtually impossible in the US to sue someone without significant assets or insurance. The first thing an attorney does is verify there is money available to go after. If not they won’t take the case.
 
Jeff767 said:
It’s also virtually impossible in the US to sue someone without significant assets or insurance. The first thing an attorney does is verify there is money available to go after. If not they won’t take the case.
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technically not totally true. This is for "contingency fee" cases - which unfortunately largely exists in the our US legal system. If you want to pay a retainer fee and cover all legal fees - most attorneys would gladly take on cases (outside of spurious ones that they have no chance of winning). So it takes money to get a case to court but doesnt necessarily take money that is available on the other side to go after.
 
Yeah, you can spend a lot of money to win a case where there are no assets. Makes sense. :D
 
brien23 said:
In this day of liability for everything we do, how liable would a A&P be if they gave someone information on this forum that is documented and saved. The person a non A&P then goes out and uses that info in the way they interpret it, and wind up getting hurt or killed. The family and/or friends then find out you told them to do it that way. Now they find out you are involved in an aircraft maintenance business (
1f914.png
$$$$). Think a jury would award the family?
Click to expand...

Possible? Sure. There are cases out there where professionals have been held liable for giving advice online. Doctors and lawyers can be particularly sensitive about this.

Likely? Not so much. There are some practical roadblocks. A lawyer taking such a case is going to do an initial evaluation but your pretty bare bones scenario does not strike me as a case of clear liability. There's the discrepancy you mentioned between what the mechanic wrote and what the pilot understood it to mean. The lack of clear liability also means it will be very expensive to pursue. It will require expert testimony. That often multi-step process doesn't come cheap. Yes, a rich plaintiff can certainly fund the case "on principle," but a injury lawyer taking a case on contingency needs to balance the outlay of thousands (maybe tens of thousands) in costs against (a) the likelihood of winning (b) wining enough to pay for the costs and a decent fee before passing the rest to the client, and (c) the likelihood of collecting anything if they do win.
 
The only situation I can think of where this *might* be a factor is if an A&P told someone "yes, you can do this yourself, and you don't need an A&P to sign off on it", and the information the A&P stated was factually incorrect and resulted in harm. However, a pilot/owner is also responsible for knowing what is in the scope of preventative maintenance or not, so they should be able to make their own determination if the information they were provided is correct or not. The liability I can see would be providing incorrect information on how to do preventative maintenance.
 
Jeff767 said:
It’s also virtually impossible in the US to sue someone without significant assets or insurance. The first thing an attorney does is verify there is money available to go after. If not they won’t take the case.
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(mini rant) I have yet to meet a lawyer that would take any case when the plaintiff does not have a wheel barrow full of pictures of Ben Franklin to hand over to the lawyer up front. (Rant over)
 
Zeldman said:
(mini rant) I have yet to meet a lawyer that would take any case when the plaintiff does not have a wheel barrow full of pictures of Ben Franklin to hand over to the lawyer up front. (Rant over)
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I just sat on Jury earlier this month where the Plaintiff must have paid the attorney vs a contingency fee, because I don't think there any any way their attorney would have taken the case as a contingency. Either that or the attorney was very hungry and didn't have anything better to do. At a minimum I bet the plaintiff had to pay for the expert testimonies.

Extremely Short version the plaintiff signed a terribly written agreement to put a deposit down on a property to reserve it for them. When the necessary municipal approvals for the sale of the property still haven't been completed 5 years later instead of the 6 months everyone expected, and the seller cancelled the reservation and refunded the deposit 3 years ago. The plaintiff was suing for breach of contract. Ended up the Judge dismissed the case, after we listened to the plaintiff's case for 2 days, for failure to meet the legal definitions of the complaints they were suing for. The bad part of course was the defendant likely had to pay the attorney for his defense. I suppose it is possible he had insurance,as the sole proprietor of a development company.

Brian
 
Nobody would hear a case based off false information someone read on PoA. Attorneys know that only the best of the best information is written on here.
 
I would like to say "No.". But how many times have we seen juries award plaintiffs obscene amounts of $ when non-instrument rated pilots fly aircraft into thunderstorms?
 
idahoflier said:
I would like to say "No.". But how many times have we seen juries award plaintiffs obscene amounts of $ when non-instrument rated pilots fly aircraft into thunderstorms?
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I haven't heard of any myself, but I don't follow it that closely. It is said less than 3% of civil lawsuit even go to trial.

I suspect most cases are handled within insurance limits.
 
You never know … I often see lawyers or doctors having disclaimers in their their videos ( on youtube and such) that whatever they say/discuss , does not constitute legal/ medical advise …
 
The idea is to do the 'Shotgun' claims. Just like a scammer sending out a thousand e-mails hoping just one is clicked on. Lawyers and scammers have no remorse for taking as much money as they can through emotions and fear. If they can convince you that the accident was partially your fault and for X $$ they'll drop your name, you might just take the deal.
 
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