Las Vegas Controller Incapacitation

It appears that although multiple pilots noticed an issue, there was no priority to get the controller assistance. In fact, at least 11 minutes into that audio, although all the pilots recognize an issue, approach was apparently not aware. So it seems that no one decided to switch frequencies and alert approach. And no one contacted anyone else on the ground, at least not quickly, to get her help or anything. They all seemed exclusively concerned about doing their pilot things. I hope that's just a misimpression.
 
Lindberg said:
It appears that although multiple pilots noticed an issue, there was no priority to get the controller assistance. In fact, at least 11 minutes into that audio, although all the pilots recognize an issue, approach was apparently not aware. So it seems that no one decided to switch frequencies and alert approach. And no one contacted anyone else on the ground, at least not quickly, to get her help or anything. They all seemed exclusively concerned about doing their pilot things. I hope that's just a misimpression.
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Nailed it.
 
Lindberg said:
It appears that although multiple pilots noticed an issue, there was no priority to get the controller assistance. In fact, at least 11 minutes into that audio, although all the pilots recognize an issue, approach was apparently not aware. So it seems that no one decided to switch frequencies and alert approach. And no one contacted anyone else on the ground, at least not quickly, to get her help or anything. They all seemed exclusively concerned about doing their pilot things. I hope that's just a misimpression.
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If that’s true, I’d say that borders on depraved indifference not only towards the controller but all of the people depending on her.
 
vman said:
fwiw from another site, talk of possible medical diabetes scenario..
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Yeah, I thought of that. I had a friend that would get weird if he didn't use the proper amount of insulin. Until he died because he never used the proper amount of insulin.
 
Lindberg said:
So it seems that no one decided to switch frequencies and alert approach. And no one contacted anyone else on the ground, at least not quickly, to get her help or anything. ... I hope that's just a misimpression.
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I heard more than one pilot of the waiting planes state they were "calling company" to get more information. That seems more logical since Approach may not be co-located, and for all we know someone used their fancy split comm audio panel to call approach or Flight Services. We only have one monitored freq.

Also, someone else showed up to take the screen. Where did he come from? Was he at lunch, or on station elsewhere.

There's so much we don't know about this incident. Not quite time to question the motives of the pilots.
 
Ravioli said:
There's so much we don't know about this incident. Not quite time to question the motives of the pilots.
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Yeah I agree. There were a few times early on where I wouldn’t have thought much at all about her condition, but rather have thought it was an issue with the radio transmission.
 
Obviously slurred speech is an indication of a stroke but I’ve read reflex cough (post stroke) as well. Not sure that’s an immediate effect or something that happens days later.

I’d imagine the sup went to take a break during light traffic and local had all positions combined. Brings to light the importance of having two people at public safety positions at all times though. Just this year an EMS helicopter had a pilot who had a stroke and the paramedic had to climb up and help the pilot land. Most likely left weakness with the paramedic manipulating the collective. Not sure how he got to the pedals though.

Yes, all controllers (military, FAA, Contract) do have to maintain a current medical if in a controlling position.
 
I thought it was odd that in all those exchanges, no pilot thought to ask if she was alright.
 
Ravioli said:
I heard more than one pilot of the waiting planes state they were "calling company" to get more information. That seems more logical since Approach may not be co-located, and for all we know someone used their fancy split comm audio panel to call approach or Flight Services. We only have one monitored freq.

Also, someone else showed up to take the screen. Where did he come from? Was he at lunch, or on station elsewhere.

There's so much we don't know about this incident. Not quite time to question the motives of the pilots.
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Purely from an ATC safety standpoint, wouldn't you want approach to know they're handing off traffic to an incapacitated controller? And even if they're not colocated, they'd have the knowledge and procedures to get someone there.

The other controller was reportedly on a break, probably in the same building.
 
just hit cnn
 
Just because the TRACON is co-located doesn’t mean there were controllers in it. A lot of facilities combine TRACON up in the tower during late hours. Most likely there were two controllers in the cab and one went to take a break.
 
Velocity173 said:
Just because the TRACON is co-located doesn’t mean there were controllers in it. A lot of facilities combine TRACON up in the tower during late hours. Most likely there were two controllers in the cab and one went to take a break.
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Yeah, you know you’re running late when you’re cleared for the visual, cleared to land, and cleared to taxi to the gate all in one transmission. :)
 
^^^ and we all now how good the news reports are!
 
Ravioli said:
^^^ and we all now how good the news reports are!
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Yep. They could have been told that the controller was removed from duty after the incident but with no mention of termination and still took it to mean no longer employed. Of course if the stroke left her permanently disabled, she’d probaly go on disability but if she can still function well enough for a non operational position, she’d probably be offered one. Just making some assumptions here.
 
Sounds like it could possibly be something other than a stroke
 
It was definitely NOT a medical event.

I'm not going to post the repost the photo because it has PII, but the FAA has posted flyers around the ATC facilities with her name and photo and statements that she is not to be admitted to any facility.

Also has a note that she is known to own several firearms….
 
Fearless Tower said:
It was definitely NOT a medical event.

I'm not going to post the repost the photo because it has PII, but the FAA has posted flyers around the ATC facilities with her name and photo and statements that she is not to be admitted to any facility.

Also has a note that she is known to own several firearms….
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I just can’t imagine what would’ve created the distress that she was clearly experiencing if it wasn’t a medical event. Foul play of some sort? Now this has me wondering...big time! This is just bizarre.
 
Can you post the pic without the PII?
 
if you read the commentary and threads on some other sites multiple people are saying she blew a 0.32 BAC and was not having a stroke, but was actually intoxicated and was on her second DUI and just come back from a stint in rehab

Honestly, she didn't sound like she was having a stroke to me, she sounded like she had had too much to drink.. despicable
 
No kidding, wow. Where are all the people that told me I was an idiot, or wearing a tin foil hat (comment from youtube), because I said it might not have been a stroke??

It did sound like a stroke but why argue it to death unless you actually know? Then dismiss anyone saying it might not have been a stroke? And VASAviation and his youtube title that was clearly unsupported, but god forbid I bring that up lol. MIND BLOWN.

Now watch all of that get overturned and it was a stroke haha.
 
JonH said:
And VASAviation
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I want to like that channel because he has some cool stuff up there sometimes, but the subtitles on the stroke video were atrocious.. either done in a huge rush, or very clearly English is a second language
 
Hawker800 said:
Don't ever argue on YouTube.
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What's amazing to me is that it happens even relatively intelligent videos.. this snapshot I took below is from a video explaining quadratic formulas.. you would think the average person watching a quadratic formula video is not your typical YouTube poster.. but you would be wrong "I hate math" and "he did it wrong" lol

Screenshot_20181116-205829.png
 
That will snowball as more people read it.

I love when comments end in, "like if you agree". Finally some instructions on that confusing like button lol.
 
Fearless Tower said:
It was definitely NOT a medical event.

I'm not going to post the repost the photo because it has PII, but the FAA has posted flyers around the ATC facilities with her name and photo and statements that she is not to be admitted to any facility.

Also has a note that she is known to own several firearms….
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I assume you are not considering being under the influence to be a medical event.

And what exactly does owning firearms have to do with anything in the story? Better not answer that as per the rules.
 
wow, no one has a clue here yet
 
i take it back..
Tantalum said:
if you read the commentary and threads on some other sites multiple people are saying she blew a 0.32 BAC and was not having a stroke, but was actually intoxicated and was on her second DUI and just come back from a stint in rehab

Honestly, she didn't sound like she was having a stroke to me, she sounded like she had had too much to drink.. despicable
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Salty said:
I assume you are not considering being under the influence to be a medical event.

And what exactly does owning firearms have to do with anything in the story? Better not answer that as per the rules.
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That is correct. I do not.

The only relevance of the FAA’s mention that she owns firearms is that they see her as a potential threat.
 
Tantalum said:
if you read the commentary and threads on some other sites multiple people are saying she blew a 0.32 BAC and was not having a stroke, but was actually intoxicated and was on her second DUI and just come back from a stint in rehab

Honestly, she didn't sound like she was having a stroke to me, she sounded like she had had too much to drink.. despicable
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No idea if she had a stroke or not but slurred speech that sounds like drunkenness, is typical. That’s the what the “S” in FAST is for. Many times people are hesitant to call for help because they think the person had been drinking.
 
Tantalum said:
if you read the commentary and threads on some other sites multiple people are saying she blew a 0.32 BAC and was not having a stroke, but was actually intoxicated and was on her second DUI and just come back from a stint in rehab

Honestly, she didn't sound like she was having a stroke to me, she sounded like she had had too much to drink.. despicable
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If true, she didn't work her way up to that on duty. That's seriously ****faced for anyone. So why didn't the other controller notice?
 
Lindberg said:
If true, she didn't work her way up to that on duty. That's seriously ****faced for anyone. So why didn't the other controller notice?
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Ever been around a functional alcoholic?

I had a senior NCO working for me about ten years ago. Made it on base, through the brief and stepped to the jet without anyone noticing the fact that he was about to blow a .19.

He got a call on his cell phone during preflight and took. Back then cell phone usage was prohibited on the flight line. Lost his chili with his wife who was on the other end.

The aircraft commander kicked him (and his student) off the jet, where he went back to the squadron, where he proceeded to have a negative interaction with his student.

By that time, the Sq Commander has arrived and took over.

Guy was taken to the hospital where his BAC showed up. After that was resolved, he went directly to inpatient treatment for 30 days. He had 19 years in, so declined the Article 15 for being drunk on duty and retired in lieu of the punishment.

A couple dozen people who worked with this guy every day were in close contact with him and did not notice his intoxication.
 
Walboy said:
Allowing him to retire in lieu of punishment is ALMOST as bad as the offense IMO. What kind of example does that set?
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Well, the option exists in the military justice system. The authority to approve that option rests with the first four star general officer in the chain of command.

The example it sets is the system was allowed to do what was best for the military.

The other option was for the member to accept the A15 and then serve out his remaining 5 years of enlistment and retiring at 55% instead of 50% and gone now.
 
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