Landing Left of the Centerline

TRocket

TRocket

Line Up and Wait
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Huntersville, NC
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Uncle Jesse
Real quick I'll tell you where I am at in my training. I have already soloed (a few times) and am about to do my first cross country (hours are in the low 20's). For whatever reason, it seems like I am always landing a little left of the center line. It seems happen quite a bit. I am usually pretty well lined up on the approach but by the time I make it to touchdown I have mosey-ed on over to the left a few feet. Any ideas here, maybe a common mistake?
 
I have ideas why people do it, but I am not sure.

I think it is because people can more easily see that side of the runway (side by side seating) so tend to drift towards what they can see easily vs what they can't. Even though there is a painted line going down the middle of the runway, it is a mental safety thing or maybe not applying enough right rudder during the flare.
 
How wide is the runway? Next time you fly with an instructor try landing right of the center line and see where you end up...
 
You need more practice contolling the plane coming out of the flare. You may be allowing a crosswind to push you a bit, so be wary of your crosswinds, and how you counter them. More practice, more hours keeping it on the centerline. You NEED to be on centerline, especially when you have to land on very narrow runways. Keep at it, you will get it, and have your instructor practice it with you so he can show you how to correct.
 
Do you use a reference for center? Like putting the centerline down your right leg or something like that?
 
I had the same problem when I was training. I don't have any advice other than recognize it is an area you need to improve (seems like you have) and work on it every time.

Well I guess I do have a tip. Its nothing super secret. Keep the nose lined up parallel to the centerline with your rudder. Manage your drift left or right of the centerline with bank.

If you recognize you are left of the centerline, consciously bank the airplane to the right. Keep adding in bank until you start to drift back over the centerline. Dont worry about touching down with a little bit of bank, it will not hurt anything. And is good technique if there is any crosswind.
 
I think its "negative transfer" from sitting on the left side of a car when driving.

Also, if your view is shifting to the left side of the runway as the nose comes up - as I think it should - you body may be subconsciously following your eyes, which is natural.

Try to make a mental goal of landing with your feet straddling the centerline. While that may result in a tiny offset to the right, it will be a step in the right direction (in a side-by-side, of course). Later you can fine tune yourself back to the exact center.

Good luck and don't sweat it too much.
 
Sometimes as you're pulling the yoke back during the flare you may be pulling back AND DOWN a bit on that left aileron.
Also, as you flare, a tiny bit of P-factor might push you left a bit requiring a slight bit of right rudder.
Try to land just right of centerline so that the line is visible under the wing.
You will see and control the drift.
 
TRocket said:
Real quick I'll tell you where I am at in my training. I have already soloed (a few times) and am about to do my first cross country (hours are in the low 20's). For whatever reason, it seems like I am always landing a little left of the center line. It seems happen quite a bit. I am usually pretty well lined up on the approach but by the time I make it to touchdown I have mosey-ed on over to the left a few feet. Any ideas here, maybe a common mistake?
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Yeah, it's a parallax issue, look further down the runway.
 
Once you get near the surface you shouldn't be looking at the centerline, you should be looking straight ahead 2' to the left of centerline with both the centerline of the runway and the prop running out your right side field of vision
 
igorek82 said:
How wide is the runway?
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40 Feet wide

eman1200 said:
8A6 Tony?
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Yup, that's me. Eric I assume?

FastEddieB said:
I think its "negative transfer" from sitting on the left side of a car when driving.

Also, if your view is shifting to the left side of the runway as the nose comes up - as I think it should - you body may be subconsciously following your eyes, which is natural.
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I think that may have a good bit to do with it.

nosehair said:
Sometimes as you're pulling the yoke back during the flare you may be pulling back AND DOWN a bit on that left aileron.
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I could see that being the issue too (or part of it), I could very well could be pulling down a little too not realizing it and compensating with right rudder, essentially slipping to the left.

I really appreciate the input everyone, I have been flying mostly solo the last few lessons so I don't have anyone sitting next to me saying "don't do that!"
 
TRocket said:
...Yup, that's me. Eric I assume?...
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yep, that's me! welcome to PoA, mostly good peeps here with mostly good info.

oh, and I didn't know 8A6 HAD a centerline!
 
Thanks man. It's there, you just gotta look real hard to see that centerline! ha ha
 
I think the whole center line thing is way over blown. Use it as a reference so you don't have to look at the edges to judge where the center line is. If you have a stiff crosswind use the whole runway to your advantage. Restricting yourself to the center seems just odd to me.... unless you are flying formation.
 
As long as you aren't taking out runway lights, or causing other damage, little to the left or right isn't a big deal.
 
Look all the way down the runway at the point which seems to move the least, ailerons to keep you centered, rudder to keep you pointing down the runway.

Guessing the problem is where you're looking.


Centerline is a big issue, it's called precision, I've never soloed a student that couldn't put it on the center line, I'd cease training with any student dumb enough to tell me that he was just too lazy or sloppy to do it.
 
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Use the view on ether side of the obstruction, I've used this method and visualized as I mentioned while giving dual full time from the rear of tandem tailwheel planes for about years.
 
At you low 20's in hours. Don't stress too much about being exactly on the centerline. Worry about that later.
 
TommyG said:
At you low 20's in hours. Don't stress too much about being exactly on the centerline. Worry about that later.
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For a student pilot he should be focusing greatly on the precision of his landings.
 
As with anything the more you do it, the better you will get at it. If you want, tell your instructor you would like a lesson solely dedicated to landings, and practice with him/her on nailing the center line.

Best of luck!

-Ryan
 
James331 said:
For a student pilot he should be focusing greatly on the precision of his landings.
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Yep, work it correct at the very beginning, and you will always be able to put it right where you want it. Primacy is key here.
 
James331 said:
Use the view on ether side of the obstruction, I've used this method and visualized as I mentioned while giving dual full time from the rear of tandem tailwheel planes for about years.
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Whatever works!

My experience is that when students try to crane their necks to see over the nose as it comes up to block their view, the consistency of their landings goes down. They literally cannot see how high they are in the final moments.

Which gets corrected when I have them look ahead of the airplane and to the side. In any event, that has worked for me and my students.

More than one way to skin a cat I guess!
 
My technique in a tail wheel, especially with a big round engine, is the same as James. I hold my head ahead and level using peripheral cues for reference and visualize what is ahead looking out the sides with eyes pointed forward. Where the eyes point, the body follows, and the airplane is an extension of your body.
 
FastEddieB said:
Whatever works!

My experience is that when students try to crane their necks to see over the nose as it comes up to block their view, the consistency of their landings goes down. They literally cannot see how high they are in the final moments.

Which gets corrected when I have them look ahead of the airplane and to the side. In any event, that has worked for me and my students.

More than one way to skin a cat I guess!
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Which goes against what I said, look all the way down the runway at the infinity point.

Crane you neck to look down or RIGHT in front you you. and you're getting smacked in the back of the head and you're going around, super bad habit.


As for your height, that is secondary and will come as you get to learn how long the planes legs are, come with time
 
Well in a small plane you don't want to nail the centerline too accurately because those centerline lights are like speed bumps.

My wife tends to get irate when I mumble comments about the centerline being out of service on her landings.
 
If you're EXACTLY on the painted center line you shouldn't be hitting the center lights :wink2:


image.jpg
 
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FastEddieB said:
Not likely to be much if any p-factor if landing at or near idle.
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Yeah, I get that comment a lot when I mention P-factor factor at idle.
Didja ever walk behind a typical light plane that just cranked up and is idling?
Did you have to hold on to your hat to keep it from being blown off?
There is actually a measurable amount of thrust being developed at idle.
On a calm morning, did you ever reach down and grab a handful of grass and toss it up to see which way the wind is blowing, if any?
Seems calm, but the grass falls over and 5 or 6 feet away.
That little bit of wind, or left drifting force, from the various propeller forces, may cause a slight drift in calm air conditions.
When there is the normal little variable wind on final, you are constantly correcting, and never notice this left drift in the flare.
But check it out. On a dead calm morning, when you are on final and all you should have to do is pull elevator to flare, keep the wings dead level and if you do no other control inputs, the nose will yaw slightly to the left as you flare.
Using right rudder to keep the nose straight causes the rudder to act as a vertical elevator causing lift to the left, pulling the airplane to the left while floating in the flare.
If you are consistency landing on the centerline, you are applying a slight bit of right rudder and aileron as you settle in the flare.
 
nosehair said:
Yeah, I get that comment a lot when I mention P-factor factor at idle.
Didja ever walk behind a typical light plane that just cranked up and is idling?
Did you have to hold on to your hat to keep it from being blown off?
There is actually a measurable amount of thrust being developed at idle.
On a calm morning, did you ever reach down and grab a handful of grass and toss it up to see which way the wind is blowing, if any?
Seems calm, but the grass falls over and 5 or 6 feet away.
That little bit of wind, or left drifting force, from the various propeller forces, may cause a slight drift in calm air conditions.
When there is the normal little variable wind on final, you are constantly correcting, and never notice this left drift in the flare.
But check it out. On a dead calm morning, when you are on final and all you should have to do is pull elevator to flare, keep the wings dead level and if you do no other control inputs, the nose will yaw slightly to the left as you flare.
Using right rudder to keep the nose straight causes the rudder to act as a vertical elevator causing lift to the left, pulling the airplane to the left while floating in the flare.
If you are consistency landing on the centerline, you are applying a slight bit of right rudder and aileron as you settle in the flare.
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When that plane is idling on the ground, it is working against the brakes. It's different when you have gravity pulling you in motion.
 
James331 said:
If you're EXACTLY on the painted center line you shouldn't be hitting the center lights :wink2:


image.jpg
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Now thats an awesome view....must feel good to land that. I landed LIFR at 300 but no fog recently and was pretty geeked to see the rabbit but still had the sigh of relief when the wheels touched down.......
But i was still 1-2 feet left of the center line.....I blame it on ocular dominance...:dunno:
 
I've helped many conquer this problem. The cause is quite simple - you're not focusing on the center line. You're just noticing the lack of alignment after you land.

The fix is incredibly simple and has worked every time so far. We go around the pattern. Once we turn final the came is on. Every moment they drift off track with the centerline, I say "center line, center line, center line" non-stop until they're aligned. I do this for the entire final, touchdown, rollout, and takeoff.

A hour of that fixes anyone. I don't have to give them tips or tell them any super centerline secret I just have to drive awareness into them.
 
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Being on centerline on approach is irrelevant to being on centerline on landing.
 
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