Kids on commercial flights

Shaping obedient kids doesn't mean creating wimpy meekness or blind following. If it does, the parents understanding of obedience is wrong.
 
Cooter said:
Shaping obedient kids doesn't mean creating wimpy meekness or blind following. If it does, the parents understanding of obedience is wrong.
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Couldn't agree with this more. I am my son's daddy.. Not his buddy.. I will be firm, consistent and fair with him.
 
Norman said:
What in hell do you mean?

Do you let your kid run wild
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I didn’t mean anything about hell, just that obedience isn’t the goal, only the means to attain the goal. Many parents misunderstand that and create little hellions (to honor the reference).
 
I love kids. Heck, I have two of them. My pet peeve isn't with kids. It's with having to put up with loud crying babies. It's not the babies' fault and it's not an obedience thing, because it's very natural. It's the parents who think it's okay to impose the inconvenience on me by bringing the aforementioned crying babies into restaurants and on airliners. I've always said no one under 2 should be allowed on an airliner because almost every time the baby will wail. It's what babies do when they're uncomfortable.

The response I always get is "how are they supposed to travel then?" DRIVE. I paid for my ticket and feel entitled to a reasonable flight, and having to listen to someone else's baby wail at full volume has deprived me of that.

When our kids were infants we wouldn't take them to a restaurant that cost more than $10/meal for that very reason. It just isn't fair to subject other diners to that. And if our infants started to cry, no matter where we were we instantly took them elsewhere.
 
timwinters said:
Texas Roadhouse? Applebee's? Sure, take your screaming rug rats to dinner there. But I won't drop well into the three figures for dinner at an expensive/exclusive and listen to it.
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When we fly with kids, we fly Frontier or Spirit and sit in the back. Same concept applies.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
Seems to be the adults making the news for poor behavior on planes lately...
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True. Misbehaving adults make the news.
Misbehaving kids don't. Because they're the norm. I dare you to complain about a misbehaving brat. You will be silenced, judged, ridiculed and if you insist, also removed from the flight.
Don't forget, kids are our "future". Breeders rule the world now. Don't get in their way, you will regret it.
 
We ate out with our kids when they were little, but at as others said, at family restaurants. Both the staff and the customers are used to kids moving around and making noise at those establishments. At nicer/adult/expensive restaurants we went without them, until they were older and more well behaved. Plus those restaurants don't tend to have "kid food" and it's a bit crazy to spend $50 on a meal for a kid who won't even eat much of it. We also flew commercial with them regularly. I only remember one time when one of them annoyed the other passengers; they have always been good travelers. Our middle daughter was crying as a baby one time as we got on a flight, and I'm sure people were thinking "oh god, the flight hasn't even started and that baby is crying". I don't remember if we feed her or what, but she stopped by the time we taxied out and was quiet the rest of the time. Even that was odd for any of them.
 
I understand that sometimes parents need to go places with the kids- they can't just be shut-ins for several years until the kid matures. I even understand that sometimes kids do things and make noises.... but by the second or third shriek, cry, or whatever why isn't being dealt with? Drag the kid outside, threaten them, spank them, whatever needs to be done to get them to behave.

I have been in one or two places where people's kids are running around everywhere, literally crawling over the top of strangers sitting in a waiting area and the parents don't even look. I remember when I was a kid bothering other people in public was the ultimate sin and if you did or even looked like you were it was HUGE trouble. I can't even conceive of someone allowing that and if it was my establishment I'd kick them all out for it.
 
My wife and I are getting in one last vacation involving airline travel next month, because after out daughter is born in 3 months I don't see it happening again for a long time. I don't think it'll be worth the hassle and I wouldn't want to subject fellow passengers to that.
 
I love flying with little kids. Last time I had one sat next to me, I told him I had a secret. I said "I own this airplane." Just this one? "No, in fact, I own all the airplanes".
Little kids will believe anything. They're so much fun.
 
Gerhardt said:
The response I always get is "how are they supposed to travel then?" DRIVE. I paid for my ticket and feel entitled to a reasonable flight, and having to listen to someone else's baby wail at full volume has deprived me of that.
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You can't very well drive to Hawaii. But, the grandkids were about 3 1/2 when we went last October. And, they have been taught how to behave in public. The chances of our daughter and son-in-law putting up with poor behavior are somewhere between slim and none.
 
Ghery said:
You can't very well drive to Hawaii. But, the grandkids were about 3 1/2 when we went last October.
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No, but you don't have to take an infant there either. I've got no problem taking a 3 1/2 year old on a plane. By that age they're usually past the wailing. It's the under-2 age that you have no ability to control as a parent. And you shouldn't try to control a 1 YO. You should be trying to soothe them and make them more comfortable.
 
Cant we have a unruly passenger section separate? LIke on the wings or cargo hold? Vote them off the island type thing?
 
Gerhardt said:
No, but you don't have to take an infant there either. I've got no problem taking a 3 1/2 year old on a plane. By that age they're usually past the wailing. It's the under-2 age that you have no ability to control as a parent. And you shouldn't try to control a 1 YO. You should be trying to soothe them and make them more comfortable.
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There are times when you don't have the choice. PCS orders to Hawaii, what are you going to do? Sorry, I don't like hearing crying babies on flights anymore than you do, but there are times when you don't have a choice. Driving to Hawaii just isn't an option.
 
My last "misbehaving child" trip was an overnight where I was trying to sleep and the thing was running laps and hitting me in the head on each pass.

I reached over creating an arm-bar across the aisle and it ran in to my arm and came to a stop. I asked it where its parents were.

Initially its parents were appalled by my action. That didn't phase me. But the thing either stopped running laps or stopped hitting my head. Can't say I care which.
 
Pfft. A little seat kicking is nothing. You guys don't know how bad it could get.

 
MassPilot said:
My wife and I are getting in one last vacation involving airline travel next month, because after out daughter is born in 3 months I don't see it happening again for a long time. I don't think it'll be worth the hassle and I wouldn't want to subject fellow passengers to that.
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My kids had more miles on their accounts before they turned three that I had into my mid 30s. First overseas trip for both of them was at about 6 months of age. I wouldn't take it as a given that you can't travel with a small kid. When they were really small, they just got fed and slept. Once they were older there was a backpack with toys, and a DVD player with the tele-tubbies and excavator videos to keep them occupied. As the adult, you may not be able to pour back a drink and watch a video, it may require some ongoing interaction with the short people. It helps if the adults still out-number the little ones as you can take turns with them.
 
Here's the only point that really matters: the airlines aren't going to stop selling tickets to parents with children.
 
I always hear about "the kid that cried and yelled for six hours" but never experienced it. Maybe it's true. I don't know. In my experience kids can cry at takeoff, and descent (because of the inner ear problems) and sometimes cry for a while but I've never experienced a kid that didn't cry themselves out within a fairly short time. Maybe I've been lucky.

I get amazed at adults with hate for kids, and their parents, and feel babies and small children shouldn't even be on commercial flights. I'm a grown man. I've been dog tired, hungover, and sick on flights and not in the mood for kids making noise, but I survived. Nowdays with Bose and other noise cancelling headphones goes a long way.

Kids kicking the seat? Talk to the parents, and if it doesn't help, the cabin person.

I feel bad for a lot of parents and give them a smile, knowing that it isn't always easy with a child on a plane, but again...never had it that bad that I couldn't handle it. Was near the end of my rope on the flight TO Thailand...second leg of the trip, 6 hour flight, from time to time this mother seemed to let her (seemd like the kid was around...) 3 or 4 year old kid RUN from the front of the plane to the back. This while folks were sleeping, lights off...kid yelling in delight (until he fell, which he did several times) as he runs up, and down the plane. That was unecessary. He'd do it like five six times in a row, then we'd get a 45 minute break, then actually FEEL and hear the kid stomping up the aisle to start a new round. I don't know how that little kid stomped so hard.

I figured the crew would put a stop to it, since for one thing he was falling now and then and could actually have hurt himself, but they didn't. Obviously the mother was at fault, not the kid. But again, I survived it.

I have never felt like I had a right to a "kid free" environment on commercial airlines, or other places I know kids will be present or can be. Most parents are good, and even good kids can have a bad day. I've seen adults on flights that bug me a lot more than kids.
 
LongRoadBob said:
I always hear about "the kid that cried and yelled for six hours" but never experienced it. Maybe it's true. I don't know. In my experience kids can cry at takeoff, and descent (because of the inner ear problems) and sometimes cry for a while but I've never experienced a kid that didn't cry themselves out within a fairly short time. Maybe I've been lucky.

I get amazed at adults with hate for kids, and their parents, and feel babies and small children shouldn't even be on commercial flights. I'm a grown man. I've been dog tired, hungover, and sick on flights and not in the mood for kids making noise, but I survived. Nowdays with Bose and other noise cancelling headphones goes a long way.

Kids kicking the seat? Talk to the parents, and if it doesn't help, the cabin person.

I feel bad for a lot of parents and give them a smile, knowing that it isn't always easy with a child on a plane, but again...never had it that bad that I couldn't handle it. Was near the end of my rope on the flight TO Thailand...second leg of the trip, 6 hour flight, from time to time this mother seemed to let her (seemd like the kid was around...) 3 or 4 year old kid RUN from the front of the plane to the back. This while folks were sleeping, lights off...kid yelling in delight (until he fell, which he did several times) as he runs up, and down the plane. That was unecessary. He'd do it like five six times in a row, then we'd get a 45 minute break, then actually FEEL and hear the kid stomping up the aisle to start a new round. I don't know how that little kid stomped so hard.

I figured the crew would put a stop to it, since for one thing he was falling now and then and could actually have hurt himself, but they didn't. Obviously the mother was at fault, not the kid. But again, I survived it.

I have never felt like I had a right to a "kid free" environment on commercial airlines, or other places I know kids will be present or can be. Most parents are good, and even good kids can have a bad day. I've seen adults on flights that bug me a lot more than kids.
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LRB,

Can't help but agree but I'm still wondering whether the kids had a place to play under supervision of competent flight attendants if it would make for both the tykes and adults more comfortable on the trip. I am old but still remember the need of long trips in the car with my parents. Mostly, they were boring. Would a place in the plane to keep them entertained be helpful for both children and adults?

My two cents.
 
Norman said:
LRB,

Can't help but agree but I'm still wondering whether the kids had a place to play under supervision of competent flight attendants if it would make for both the tykes and adults more comfortable on the trip. I am old but still remember the need of long trips in the car with my parents. Mostly, they were boring. Would a place in the plane to keep them entertained be helpful for both children and adults?

My two cents.
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Impractical Norm. Airlines are interested in cramming as many as they can for revenue. Having a separate area for kiddies would never fly.
 
mscard88 said:
Impractical Norm. Airlines are interested in cramming as many as they can for revenue. Having a separate area for kiddies would never fly.
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Perhaps from a financial standpoint you are correct. OTOH, it would make travel a lot more comfortable for both.
 
Norman said:
Perhaps from a financial standpoint you are correct. OTOH, it would make travel a lot more D
Norman said:
Perhaps from a financial standpoint you are correct. OTOH, it would make travel a lot more comfortable for both.
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.
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Perhaps but most, if not all, airline managements seek to please Wall St and shareholders.​
 
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I take earplugs with me on all flights.

<-- Problem solver.


I remember my flight from Germany to Houston that had a baby (<6 mos) on board. Every time the baby would make the slightest sound the 22 year old girl next to me would lean forward and stare over at the mother. Mom was doing her best to comfort the baby.
 
MadseasoN said:
I take earplugs with me on all flights.

<-- Problem solver.


I remember my flight from Germany to Houston that had a baby (<6 mos) on board. Every time the baby would make the slightest sound the 22 year old girl next to me would lean forward and stare over at the mother. Mom was doing her best to comfort the baby.
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Have you ever tried noise cancelling headphones? I think you would LOVE them.
For one thing, even forgetting about crying babies, the constant white noise of flying is just about totally removed as that is what noise cancelling does best (a constant noise, they reverse the phase of the noise so it cancels out) and about a hundred times more effective than ear plugs. I know they cost a little but price has come down a good deal in the last years. You can use them for music, or watching a film on your iPad or whatever, OR can simply use them to shut out the noise around you.

Now HERE is an idea. Suppose they engineer the equivalent to noise cancelling headphones, but it's a local unit that immediately cancels out the baby crying at the SOURCE?

Again though, I've always experienced some crying, but that the babies usually wear themselves out and sleep after a pretty short time.
 
Stewartb said:
I find it hard to believe that reasonably intelligent adults have wasted this much time whining like babies!!!
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I also find it interesting how many adults hate children.

Guess what? We all started out the same.
 
Cooter said:
Shaping obedient kids doesn't mean creating wimpy meekness or blind following. If it does, the parents understanding of obedience is wrong.
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From Merrim-Webster
Definition of obedience
a : an act or instance of obeying
b : the quality or state of being obedient
  • Children should learn obedience and respect for authority.
I'd rather have my son question some authority than just obey it. Obviously there is a functional side of things and some obedience is required. But not accepting the status quo just because it's always been that way is a good thing. There are too many who just fall in line like sheep.

And I agree that until a baby has the means to tell the parent what is wrong, that baby should not be put into situations where things change as much as they do on an airplane. Something very bad could be happening and the parents have no idea what. With babies you can feed them, change a diaper or let them sleep and they will usually be happy. But if none of those things work, something else is wrong and you really don't want to be a parent waiting 2 hours to land to find out what it is.
 
They get over stimulated. They get inner ear pressure. Make sure they're well rested and make sure to keep them swallowing on climb out and descent. Traveling parent basics.

The folks who get agitated by crying kids must have never had kids. Those of us who did barely notice a kid crying in the next row. When I do? I give the parents any support I can offer. I remember being in their shoes. My wife has walked airliner aisles with total stranger's crying kids so the parents could have a break. Grandmothers have a knack.
 
Stewartb said:
They get over stimulated. They get inner ear pressure. Make sure they're well rested and make sure to keep them swallowing on climb out and descent. Traveling parent basics.

The folks who get agitated by crying kids must have never had kids. Those of us who did barely notice a kid crying in the next row. When I do? I give the parents any support I can offer. I remember being in their shoes. My wife has walked airliner aisles with total stranger's crying kids so the parents could have a break. Grandmothers have a knack.
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I agree. Also, as I mentioned, I've never experienced the baby that cried for six hours, but here's the thing...

It helps a LOT when you've boarded, and a baby starts crying to think "it will wear itself out and sleep after a while" no matter what happens. What I'm getting at is, if the very second you you hear a baby or small child crying you immediately think "oh my god, this kid is going to cry the whole flight long" you WILL get upset, angry, stressed. If you realize that crying usually subsides pretty quickly, and then they sleep...no stress.
 
bflynn said:
I'd rather have my son question some authority than just obey it. Obviously there is a functional side of things and some obedience is required. But not accepting the status quo just because it's always been that way is a good thing. There are too many who just fall in line like sheep.
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My suspicion is confirmed...........You're free to raise your kids however you want but you seem to have a real misunderstanding of what obedience is all about.
 
Stewartb said:
The folks who get agitated by crying kids must have never had kids. Those of us who did barely notice a kid crying in the next row. When I do? I give the parents any support I can offer. I remember being in their shoes. My wife has walked airliner aisles with total stranger's crying kids so the parents could have a break. Grandmothers have a knack.
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Bingo. Fortunately mine were well behaved as babies/small child's. It's college where it all went to hell!

As an airline pilot I'd see a mother traveling without her husband, but carrying a baby, and one or two other children, and bags and such. No rampers helping her, so a number of times I'd help by carrying their bags etc into the concourse and help any other way I could.
 
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Cooter said:
My suspicion is confirmed...........You're free to raise your kids however you want but you seem to have a real misunderstanding of what obedience is all about.
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Actually, we are talking about different things because we have different values.

And that is ok.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I also find it interesting how many adults hate children.

Guess what? We all started out the same.
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No not in the least...on both points.

I didn't start out the same because no kid in my family would have ever dared to u my mother in public or we would have had hell to pay when we got home...if she even waited until we got home!

And to those advocating ear plugs and/or noise cancelling headsets. Those don't help much when little Johnny is kicking the back of your seat as you're trying to sleep. A hack saw to remove his cute little legs is what is needed.
 
When we were young parents with baby boys, we flew a lot to visit my in-laws, who lived first in New Orleans and later Houston. Our first cried a lot and for every reason. It was his go-to emotion for his first year. Our second was pretty calm. Different kids; different personalities. I remember the evil dagger stares of others when our baby cried, but we learned to ignore it and try our best to feed/burp/console until the crying stopped. The thing is, if a baby just wants to cry, it's going to do it, despite your best efforts.

The big lesson I took from those times was to be patient with crying babies on flights, especially if I can see that the parents are being as attentive and caring as possible - they're doing the best they can. Those fliers who are intolerant in such situations either never had or dealt much with babies, or they have other issues (and I'll withhold my opinion on that!). Amid the few icy stares from other fliers, I also remember the kind looks and smiles of understanding folks. Their looks told me they'd "been there, done that." And that's what I try to emulate.

While I'm pretty immune to crying babies, I have little tolerance for toddler tirades. A whole 'nother matter are children two or older who misbehave because their parents enable such poor behavior. They're allowed to kick seats and bother other fliers. They throw trash around, squeal, holler - all that crap. It's usually clear to me that those parents are the problem - they're probably the same parents who let their kids run amok in stores and restaurants, the same parents who throw dirty diapers on the Wal-Mart parking lot. Etc.
 
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My wife and I actually go out of our way to help or reassure parents we understand, it's fine. The parents I do get annoyed with are ones who make no effort to control their children. No excuse for that.
 
mscard88 said:
My wife and I actually go out of our way to help or reassure parents we understand, it's fine. The parents I do get annoyed with are ones who make no effort to control their children. No excuse for that.
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This annoys me too. Very young children don't have enough mental development to function well in society. Our job as parents is to raise them to become functioning members of society. Part of that is acceptable public behavior. Part of that is also how to be successful at life, which sometimes means breaking social expectations. But knowing when can be tricky...different topic.
 
bflynn said:
Part of that is acceptable public behavior. Part of that is also how to be successful at life, which sometimes means breaking social expectations. But knowing when can be tricky...different topic.
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Care to discuss, or at least explain?
 
BigBadLou said:
True. Misbehaving adults make the news.
Misbehaving kids don't. Because they're the norm. I dare you to complain about a misbehaving brat. You will be silenced, judged, ridiculed and if you insist, also removed from the flight.
Don't forget, kids are our "future". Breeders rule the world now. Don't get in their way, you will regret it.
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Knock on wood, the last time I had a "brat" that I remember was a flight from Orlando throwing ice from their drink around. I was at the point of ringing the flight attendant when the kid stopped (ran out of ice?). I was in the row behind the kid and got two pieces my way. That was many years ago. OTOH, I don't often go to places where one may expect children, except sometimes India in winter.
 
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