Kick the Kneeboard - Something Missing?

wayneda40

wayneda40

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We’ve already shed reams and reams of paper from the cockpit… Why not complete the transition? I understand that getting rid of a paper notepad and a kneeboard is not for everyone… but for me, with a little perseverance, this transition has improved the accuracy of my ATC communications and, I believe, also improved overall safety. What do you see as pros/cons of a cockpit devoid of paper?

Thoughts, questions, and suggestions? I'd love to hear from you.
Thanks for your insight and enjoy the video!
Wayne, the GeezerGeek Pilot
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
I’m not there yet. I still use a pad and paper for all those things. Charts & plates are electronic however.
Click to expand...

For me, the super simple things (HDG, ALT) came without any real effort. Being able to dial in Frequency changes as they came took me dozens and dozens of hours. Basically I had to learn to (1) better anticipate that a sector handoff was coming soon, and (2) spring load myself to immediately get my hand up to the COM knobs to be ready to dial in the new freq (the new touchscreen com/navigators might be more productive than the old com dials).

Scribbling on the iPad is a work-in-process for me. It's good enough that in two years (>800 hours) I haven't yet resorted to paper, but that e-scribbling is still not good (maybe an Apple pencil would help, but the Gen2 isn't available for the iPad Mini).

Wayne
 
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I still need paper and pencil for when I get the dreaded "DiamondStar 1WP, I have a (long and complicated IFR) re-route for you, advise when ready to copy".
 
I could do it, just don't see the point....

I have all glass so don't fly with an ipad. I don't think I ever wrote down simple ATC instructions even in training. On IFR flights I use a small notepad and pen to write clearances and other tid bits of information. Can't get any easier.
 
OkieAviator said:
I could do it, just don't see the point....

I have all glass so don't fly with an ipad. I don't think I ever wrote down simple ATC instructions even in training. On IFR flights I use a small notepad and pen to write clearances and other tid bits of information. Can't get any easier.
Click to expand...

On the simple ATC instructions (e.g. HDG, ALT), I also thought that was a pretty normal thing to from day one, but I've watched a number of YouTube videos where a pilot lowers his head to write a Heading or Altitude on a kneeboard, reads it back, and then dials it into the panel. That was one motivation for throwing together this little video.
Thanks,
Wayne
 
Been writing on the tablet for a few years using Avare.
In the Cessnas, the Warrior and the P-92 I have some bugs, as shown in the video.
In the Cubs I still use sectionals, and paper, but I don't need to write down all that much, so it's not onerous.
With no electrical system anything electronic can be an issue due to battery longevity.

I'm glad the technique is out there for all to see and use. Keep up the good work.
 
On long cross-countries, I do Listen-Set-Readback-Write. The last step is mainly to help pass the time.
 
I like the crispness of a paperless cockpit, but if I'm IFR I find a knee board with a writing pad is extremely useful for writing clearance amendments. But when it comes to piloting i'll never begrudge what works for the individual.
 
Geosync... agreed, it's all about what works for the individual pilot.
Thanks,
Wayne
 
Looks good, Wayne. What you've gravitated to is what I've been doing for many years. I don't write down frequency changes - I just dial them in. Same for heading and altitude changes. The key is to do them immediately, using whatever physical manipulations are necessary (you covered those) and them read them back. That's basically the same as writing.

I came to the same place you did with writing clearances as well. I use an Apple Pencil. It's the best solution for me with my iPads. Second place would be a stylus. In a pinch I can write a clearance even with my finger, but it's ugly. So I stick with option #1.

As a small matter of technique, I try to write clearances like a sentence on one or two lines rather than fill up a "CRAFT" template scratchpad page. The latter is a good way to start but after a while it should be less onerous to just write down the clearance in the order you received it. Less chance of needing two pages that way.

Thanks for sharing,
 
I commented on Wayne's post elsewhere and we've discussed this here before.

I've been using an EFB for 9 years. I wrote on my tablet for about 4-5 years, then went back to paper. In my case, I discovered that I had to look at my tablet in order to write on it. With paper and pen, decades of note taking experience means barely having to look at all and a higher degree of accuracy with less thought, so it ended up being a better cockpit choice for me,

For simple stuff, sure. I don't think I ever wrote down assigned headings, even as a pre-bug student pilot. OTOH, I have just enough trouble trouble transposing digits that I can mess them up just by reading back my tail number along with the frequency
 
Ryan F. said:
I try to write clearances like a sentence on one or two lines rather than fill up a "CRAFT" template scratchpad page.
Click to expand...
Shhhh. Don't give away the secret!

Seriously, the use of a template, paper or plastic, is a completely different issue, mostly related to personal organization preferences. Wayne's video also displays one of those paper templates with fill-in blanks so many like. Others prefer a clean blank sheet of paper or screen with random chicken scratches in any available spot which no one but the writer can make sense of :D
 
Ryan F. said:
As a small matter of technique, I try to write clearances like a sentence on one or two lines rather than fill up a "CRAFT" template scratchpad page. The latter is a good way to start but after a while it should be less onerous to just write down the clearance in the order you received it. Less chance of needing two pages that way.

Thanks for sharing,
Click to expand...
Thanks, Ryan! Seems the Apple Pencil Gen2 doesn't work on the iPad Mini 5... but I'm going to give the Gen1 pencil a try. No doubt it'll be much better than a stylus or my fat finger :).

I also like your idea of forgetting the vertical CRAFT -- because as you note, the Route part often takes up 80% of the page -- and writing the clearance as a string line by line. Cool!

Thanks for watching and thanks for the super feedback!
Wayne
 
midlifeflyer said:
Shhhh. Don't give away the secret!

Seriously, the use of a template, paper or plastic, is a completely different issue, mostly related to personal organization preferences. Wayne's video also displays one of those paper templates with fill-in blanks so many like. Others prefer a clean blank sheet of paper or screen with random chicken scratches in any available spot which no one but the writer can make sense of :D
Click to expand...
Mark, I love your pragmatism... just get 'er done :).
Thanks,
Wayne
 
wayneda40 said:

We’ve already shed reams and reams of paper from the cockpit… Why not complete the transition? I understand that getting rid of a paper notepad and a kneeboard is not for everyone… but for me, with a little perseverance, this transition has improved the accuracy of my ATC communications and, I believe, also improved overall safety. What do you see as pros/cons of a cockpit devoid of paper?

Thoughts, questions, and suggestions? I'd love to hear from you.
Thanks for your insight and enjoy the video!
Wayne, the GeezerGeek Pilot
Click to expand...
I like it, like some of the comments, too! All can be incorporated with steam guages and even Avare on a 'droid...

Thanks!
 
wayneda40 said:
Thoughts, questions, and suggestions? I'd love to hear from you.
Wayne, the GeezerGeek Pilot
Click to expand...

As others have mentioned, the Draw / Write on the screen is a available on some electronic devices / apps, Avare had that for over 6 years, but having just one electronic source that can fail any time, of information is not a good idea for Charts, Clearances... and in most cases that information can be difficult to view under most circumstances.
For a short VFR flight you may be able to get away with it but for IFR it is not sufficient. Paper and a Voice recorder and preflight preparation is best.
Some newer acft have instruments that you can enter more data at the beginning of the flight but not may IFR clearances remain the same during the flight and data has to be updated that can take longer and become more difficult.
In many cases a couple of seconds of delays can make make a difference between a safe flight and one that can cause a lot of frustration.
In my opinion Paper is still the best as primary note taking and if you have other back up information available use it.
Electronic source as Primary and Only is not something I would ever use and or recommend.
 
bluesideup said:
As others have mentioned, the Draw / Write on the screen is a available on some electronic devices / apps, Avare had that for over 6 years, but having just one electronic source that can fail any time, of information is not a good idea for Charts, Clearances... and in most cases that information can be difficult to view under most circumstances.
For a short VFR flight you may be able to get away with it but for IFR it is not sufficient. Paper and a Voice recorder and preflight preparation is best.
Some newer acft have instruments that you can enter more data at the beginning of the flight but not may IFR clearances remain the same during the flight and data has to be updated that can take longer and become more difficult.
In many cases a couple of seconds of delays can make make a difference between a safe flight and one that can cause a lot of frustration.
In my opinion Paper is still the best as primary note taking and if you have other back up information available use it.
Electronic source as Primary and Only is not something I would ever use and or recommend.
Click to expand...

Totally respect this opinion, and it's all about what works best for each individual pilot. For me -- after two years (800 hours) without using a single piece of paper on a 50/50 mix of VFR/IFR -- no kneeboard and no paper notepad (per the video) works quite nicely for me.
Thanks for the insight,
Wayne
 
wayneda40 said:
Mark, I love your pragmatism... just get 'er done :).
Thanks,
Wayne
Click to expand...
It's less pragmatism than being media-neutral and learning through the years that one size really doesn't fit all. Despite our basic similarities we are all very different in how we learn and how we process tasks.
 
I’ve been making my living flying single-pilot IFR for the the last 4 years. When you hear your callsign, be ready to either dial in a heading or change frequencies (or both.) Other than clearances or clearance amendments, I’ve never felt the need to write down anything during the course of the flight. I am honestly kind of surprised to see so many people writing frequency changes down, because in my opinion thats more work than just dialing it in.

IMO, it’s not an effective use of your resources in the cockpit.
 
DavidWhite said:
I’ve been making my living flying single-pilot IFR for the the last 4 years. When you hear your callsign, be ready to either dial in a heading or change frequencies (or both.) Other than clearances or clearance amendments, I’ve never felt the need to write down anything during the course of the flight. I am honestly kind of surprised to see so many people writing frequency changes down, because in my opinion thats more work than just dialing it in.
Click to expand...
David, I agree totally... took me a while, but as you note, when I hear my tail number I'm spring-loaded with the right hand already on its way to one of the HDG, ALT, or COM knobs. Plus that keeps our head up and not down writing stuff on a kneeboard.
Thanks,
Wayne
 
I use an EFB for work but rarely in the cockpit since everything I need is in the panel and I’m VFR only. It’s nothing more than a digitized piece of paper that replaced our pubs bag. I use a knee board but that’s mostly to rest my forearm on. Hardly ever write on it in flight.

For personal use, I use the EFB for XCs only because the FF sectional is better than my 480 and I get traffic and wx on it.

As always, tech usage really depends on the type of flying you’re doing.
 
I don't understand why people write headings down and after put them into the autopilot or the bug. It seems like one more chance to make a mistake in the cycle.. if ATC tells you to climb and maintain 6000, then bug that and read that back.. it's faster to just reach up to the knob than look for a pen and start writing
 
I’m on the same page. With the Aspen you dial everything in immediately. The radio frequency gets loaded in standby and then switched. For ATIS or AWOS I use the scratch pad feature and jot the info down on my moving map by the destination, easy to see.

I am still writing my clearance down with the vertical CRAFT set up, on a knee board. I should start using the iPad and Foreflight.
 
Tantalum said:
I don't understand why people write headings down and after put them into the autopilot or the bug. It seems like one more chance to make a mistake in the cycle.. if ATC tells you to climb and maintain 6000, then bug that and read that back.. it's faster to just reach up to the knob than look for a pen and start writing
Click to expand...

GMascelli said:
I’m on the same page. With the Aspen you dial everything in immediately. The radio frequency gets loaded in standby and then switched.
Click to expand...

I know, I know! But I watch lots and lots of aviation YouTube videos... and frequently see pilots put their head down to write a HDG, ALT, or Freq on a kneeboard, read that back to ATC, and then lift their head to dial it into the panel. I just don't get it. Granted, Clearances and Clearance updates are a different animal, and for me e-scribbling on a scratchpad in ForeFlight is still a work in process, but it works.

Thanks for the sanity check!
Wayne
 
little different perhaps in a dirt simple old bird with no bug and no autopilot.
I can think of situations where I might hear and understand, say a heading....read it back....then get distracted by something on the way there and forget the number.
 
that said, I don't recall being in the habit of writing headings or freq changes all that much back when I was very active.

Lately as I knock of the rust I have a few times jotted down the active runway for example since I'm not as familiar with the field, the two runways aren't all that far off from each other..... and I'm a little bit more task saturated
 
wayneda40 said:
Thanks, Ryan! Seems the Apple Pencil Gen2 doesn't work on the iPad Mini 5... but I'm going to give the Gen1 pencil a try. No doubt it'll be much better than a stylus or my fat finger :).

I also like your idea of forgetting the vertical CRAFT -- because as you note, the Route part often takes up 80% of the page -- and writing the clearance as a string line by line. Cool!

Thanks for watching and thanks for the super feedback!
Wayne
Click to expand...

The Gen1 does work on the Mini5. I fly with the Mini on the yoke but leave the pencil at home and use paper. My problem is mainly where to keep it. It doesn’t fit in a pocket well (too tall) and not all of the planes I fly have a “pencil pocket” on the side. I’m curious what others do to keep that Apple Pencil under control?

I did fly with a cfii who used the same combo in the cockpit very effectively in teaching while flying.
 
woodchucker said:
The Gen1 does work on the Mini5. I fly with the Mini on the yoke but leave the pencil at home and use paper. My problem is mainly where to keep it. It doesn’t fit in a pocket well (too tall) and not all of the planes I fly have a “pencil pocket” on the side. I’m curious what others do to keep that Apple Pencil under control?

I did fly with a cfii who used the same combo in the cockpit very effectively in teaching while flying.
Click to expand...

Maybe someone with Gen2 experience will chime in... but I believe the Gen2 has a couple big improvements over the Gen1... (1) it stashes (and charges I believe) magnetically on the rim of the iPad, and (2) when you're using the Gen2 it ignores when your palm rests against the screen.
 
Here's what my kneeboard page looks like. And yes, I save all of those.

board.jpg

On the top, it's the date and tail number.
On the right, start, tank change, and stop times, in case I want to know how much gas remains (unless there's a leak, obviously). In case of a rental, there may be tach and Hobbs times recorded.
"Canopy N118MM" refers to a Mayday call that I heard, a glider lost canopy and was landing out. There's an approximate location and time.
On the left, I may have airport diagrams, sometimes with marks about non-standard patterns and the like.
For example GUP's TPA is 7400 ft.
Weather at CDC was 200@8 30.00 and no significant clouds.
In the middle, I mark the identity of the ATC facility, and in this case I took something for LA Center, which turned out to be SL Center when I got to it. Obviously there's also the current altimeter and frequency.
For the RNO weather, the underscored S means the ATIS Sierra. If ATIS includes something noteworthy like runway closures, it may be marked there too.
On the very bottom, stars designate squacks, such as "Baggage door support strut broke" and "No 1090ES TX" (which fixed itself).

A while ago I was fascinated with the idea of replacing the kneeboard with something electronic, but I procrastinated long enough to find out that tablets cannot be trusted. One time my daughter managed to factory-reset my main navigation tablet, wiping out all the data on it. I ended making a precautionary landing and using an airport WiFi to restore it. Good thing we weren't crossing Gulf of Mexico at the time.
 
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zaitcev said:
Here's what my kneeboard page looks like. And yes, I save all of those.

A while ago I was fascinated with the idea of replacing the kneeboard with something electronic, but I procrastinated long enough to find out that tablets cannot be trusted. One time my daughter managed to factory-reset my main navigation tablet, wiping out all the data on it. I ended making a precautionary landing and using an airport WiFi to restore it. Good thing we weren't crossing Gulf of Mexico at the time.
Click to expand...
Pete, thank's a lot of good data. Other than hdg/alt/freq, I also capture pretty much all that on my iPad... either on saved scratchpad pages or more permanently in my e-logbook entry (e.g. I have custom fields for squawks, fuel burn, etc). In the case of the e-logbook entries, all that data is saved in the cloud by ForeFlight.
Thanks for sharing,
Wayne
 
I think some of you are living in the Hi Tech LaLa land. Many of the still present acft have no heading bug, secondary radios etc. It is not prudent to recommend something that does not encompass every one. The Paper Kneeboard, with the data written on it, is the only way I would suggest.
Yes, I know that some pilots think that they are superior and think they can skip things. I've been around some where they take a lot of ATC's time just because they think they are superior, they dial in the wrong frequency by the time they find out that it is wrong they are out of the previous controller's range, assuming they still have the old freq memorized, now they have no idea what to do and in busy airspace they are very likely already in some airspace, or separation violation.
Yes, there are pocket recorders that you can use, and recall the information quickly, that can be used and helpful to many.
 
bluesideup said:
It is not prudent to recommend something that does not encompass every one. The Paper Kneeboard, with the data written on it, is the only way I would suggest. Yes, I know that some pilots think that they are superior...
Click to expand...
Didn't you just do exactly what you said not to do? ;)
 
midlifeflyer said:
Didn't you just do exactly what you said not to do? ;)
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Thanks, Mark :).
I'm not sure bluesideup noticed that my posting and video also start with "I understand that getting rid of a paper notepad and a kneeboard is not for everyone". Also the video talks about pretty cheap ways to bug the Altimeter, plus there are certainly aftermarket Heading bugs.
Wayne
 
OkieAviator said:
My Garmin audio panel has a playback, I've only used it once or twice just to double check something. However it's a pretty cool function.
Click to expand...
The Lighspeed Zulu2 and later has an iOS app which will do that too. Downside, is it uses Bluetooth which you might be using for other purposes, depending on your avionics.
 
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