KERV Mooney Goes down

PiperW

PiperW

Pre-takeoff checklist
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PiperW
Looks like he tried to do the impossible turn, 2 died yesterday afternoon. Heard the plane was in the shop for quite a time, Flight aware shows him taking off KERV and turning around, didn’t make it. I looked up the tail number by looking at Mooney flights out of KERV yesterday around 6pm. FlightAware shows a M20j doing the turn back and not making it, low altitude when he attempted the feat. Not going to post the tail number until it is verified.

I happen to fly by there yesterday earlier in the day shooting missed approached from the south.

https://www.kens5.com/article/news/...port/273-abcefc39-a20d-40a0-a4b8-e96aae7364dc
 
If that track is right, it looks like they turned around to setup to land in the opposite direction of takeoff, and then maybe tried to do a go-around? Maybe they were partial power, because it looks like powered flight on the way back in to me, given the speeds. Maybe they were a little bit too high, fast, and thought they could take another shot, but lost the rest of the engine. Guessing. Very sad. Wish they'd have figured out a way to make it stick the first time...seems like they may have been close.
 
Real shame. Folks usually go OK in a Mooney accident because the steel frame takes care of them. Stall it out and that goes out the window though. RIP for the victims. Kerrville is where the remains of the Mooney factory are, and I they're doing work on the legacy fleet. I hope the factory didn't bollux anything.
 
steingar said:
Real shame. Folks usually go OK in a Mooney accident because the steel frame takes care of them. Stall it out and that goes out the window though. RIP for the victims. Kerrville is where the remains of the Mooney factory are, and I they're doing work on the legacy fleet. I hope the factory didn't bollux anything.
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Per mooneyspace, the owner just picked it up at the factory from an annual...but it had been sitting for a few months before he could get it.
 
FORANE said:
This is easily solved. Just take off with the 30 kt tailwind. That way you will have a great headwind if you turned back.
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I may fall short of the runway! If I even leave the runway ...
The fact that the Mooney sat for months is a concern; I think of condensation in the tanks, etc. which can cause loss of power, partial or complete. I had this happen in a 150 (sumped clean!) but luckily was on a 6K runway. Drained a pint or so out after that.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
I may fall short of the runway! If I even leave the runway ...
The fact that the Mooney sat for months is a concern; I think of condensation in the tanks, etc. which can cause loss of power, partial or complete. I had this happen in a 150 (sumped clean!) but luckily was on a 6K runway. Drained a pint or so out after that.
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Just recently learned that every so often we have to have someone push the tail down and sump the tanks on our 182H due to water finding hiding places in the bladders.
 
There is an AD on that for Cessna's with bladders. In part, it mandated the following:

"Prior to flight following exposure to rain, sleet, snow, or after fueling from an unfiltered fuel source:

1. Drain and catch the contents of the fuel gascolator, wing, and (if equipped) reservoir tank sumps and check for water contamination.

2. Place the airplane on a level surface and lower the tail to within 5 inches of the ground (on nose gear airplanes).

3. Rock the wings 10 inches up and 10 inches down at least 12 times.

4. Drain and catch the contents of the fuel gascolator, wing, and (if equipped) reservoir tank sumps and check for water contamination.

5. If water is found in step 4 above, repeat steps 3 and 4 until no additional water is detected, or drain the entire airplane fuel system."
 
That sounds like a PITA. Do mooneys have the same type of bladder?
 
Talking with a friend that works at KERV. The linesman saw the gear didn’t retract hence the low spending and low altitude on a very hot day. He turned around and flew over the run way to land the way he took off. This indicates to me it was not an emergency else he lands with the wind. He stalls as he turns into final bout 1 mile from threshold. All this time he was approx. 250’ AGL and slow speed.
 
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I am now thinking his alternator went out and didn’t have the amps for gears up. No word on communications which he would have lost with a dead alternator as well.
I lost an alternator once in flight and in no time, I went dark.
 
PiperW said:
I am now thinking his alternator went out and didn’t have the amps for gears up. No word on communications which he would have lost with a dead alternator as well.
I lost an alternator once in flight and in no time, I went dark.
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I’ve lost an alternator in flight as well, but it shouldn’t result in a fatal outcome - at least in most circumstances.
 
I agree, he stalled the plane at low altitude and low speeds, lost it on the turn into a spin. I am speculating of course, but possibly he didn’t have altitude or speed due to his gear down on a hot day and could not climb. The Airplane is 180hp? Tragic and avoidable.
 
RyanB said:
I’ve lost an alternator in flight as well, but it shouldn’t result in a fatal outcome - at least in most circumstances.
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My AFM emergency procedure for alternator failure is "if electrical power is required for continued safe flight, land as soon as practicable."
 
Mooneys fly just fine with the gear down. Mine will do 100 mph with the gear down, don’t ask me how I know. A blown alternator doesn’t qualify as an emergency, though you do want to land as quickly as you can. But even with your gear down you have to keep speed up in the pattern. No matter what else is going on you have to fly the airplane.
 
Actually, on the later models, the max speed with gear down is 165 KIAS.
 
PiperW said:
I agree, he stalled the plane at low altitude and low speeds, lost it on the turn into a spin. I am speculating of course, but possibly he didn’t have altitude or speed due to his gear down on a hot day and could not climb. The Airplane is 180hp? Tragic and avoidable.
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Strange cause I take off and climb with my gear down all the time. I also fly in the pattern with my gear down and make turns. Never caused an accident or prevented me from climbing.
 
Pinecone said:
There is an AD on that for Cessna's with bladders. In part, it mandated the following:

"Prior to flight following exposure to rain, sleet, snow, or after fueling from an unfiltered fuel source:

1. Drain and catch the contents of the fuel gascolator, wing, and (if equipped) reservoir tank sumps and check for water contamination.

2. Place the airplane on a level surface and lower the tail to within 5 inches of the ground (on nose gear airplanes).

3. Rock the wings 10 inches up and 10 inches down at least 12 times.

4. Drain and catch the contents of the fuel gascolator, wing, and (if equipped) reservoir tank sumps and check for water contamination.

5. If water is found in step 4 above, repeat steps 3 and 4 until no additional water is detected, or drain the entire airplane fuel system."
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That stuff applied until the recessed fuel caps were replaced with the raised caps. The recessed caps were famous for letting water into the tanks. The raised caps will, too, if they're not maintained.
 
PiperW said:
I am now thinking his alternator went out and didn’t have the amps for gears up. No word on communications which he would have lost with a dead alternator as well.
I lost an alternator once in flight and in no time, I went dark.
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If the lights go out right after losing the alternator, there must be a really serious short somewhere, one not protected by a breaker. The battery can easily carry the radios and gear for some time. If the battery was so bad that it went dark immediately, it wouldn't even start the engine.
 
For my first checkride, one of the questions the examiner asked was "what would you do if, in flight, you lost your entire electrical system?" He was reading from his own script. I just laughed. He smiled and spoke as he wrote "hysterical laughter. correct." I was taking the checkride in a plane w/o an electrical system. Then he looked at me and said "remember that when you fly other planes."
 
PiperW said:
I am now thinking his alternator went out and didn’t have the amps for gears up. No word on communications which he would have lost with a dead alternator as well.
I lost an alternator once in flight and in no time, I went dark.
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ERV is an uncontrolled field so there may not have been much, if any comms going on. I know when I had my electrical fire in the cockpit when departing an uncontrolled field, my first thought was kill the master, join the pattern, and land.
 
Albany Tom said:
For my first checkride, one of the questions the examiner asked was "what would you do if, in flight, you lost your entire electrical system?" He was reading from his own script. I just laughed. He smiled and spoke as he wrote "hysterical laughter. correct." I was taking the checkride in a plane w/o an electrical system. Then he looked at me and said "remember that when you fly other planes."
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Less funny if it’s a fly by wire jet no?
 
Dan Thomas said:
That stuff applied until the recessed fuel caps were replaced with the raised caps. The recessed caps were famous for letting water into the tanks. The raised caps will, too, if they're not maintained.
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Or someone forgets to put one on. :D
 
SebIp said:
Less funny if it’s a fly by wire jet no?
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Given my age at my first checkride, he could be pretty confident I wasn't going to end up flying for United. Or the Air Force. :)
 
Kenny Phillips said:
I took off in ~30 kt headwind once (never again!). Turning back would have put me in the drink, due to overshoot.
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In this scenario forget the turn back. With that 30 kts the groundspeed on touchdown would be rather favorable. I’m not big into ‘turn backs’, seem to get messed up to often. Of course it all depends on particulars.
 
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