Jeju Air, South Korea

Wait, hold up. Some are implying the engines were shut off and they were dead sticking it.

Those engines, per the videos and audio, were producing thrust
 
Larry in TN said:
When the switch is pulled, the generator field relay is tripped, and pneumatics, hydraulics, and fuel are shutoff prior to the engine. At that point, you haven't lost anything except the engine itself.
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Thank you for the clarification.
Could the crew have pulled both switches, not realizing the implications?

Do you recall what bus are the CVR/FDR breakers on?
 
AV8R_87 said:
Thank you for the clarification.
Could the crew have pulled both switches, not realizing the implications?

Do you recall what bus are the CVR/FDR breakers on?
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How would a trained 737 crew not realize the implications of overriding the latch and pulling two big red fire handles? The overhead panel is even marked showing which systems are affected by the fire switches.

The busses aren't labeled on the CB panel and it isn't listed in our flight manuals. Searches have come up with some conflicting information. I believe that, on a pre-2012 build, the CVR should survive the loss of both generators but the DFDR would not. With the conflicting search results, it's possible that not all aircraft are wired the same.
 
I've seen a couple of people, that admit they don't fly this plane, say that if both engines are out, or both Fire handles are turned/activated, you loose all power and hydraulics.

Just curious if there is anyone here that does know that plane and can confirm that is a good hypothesis for why there was no gear, flaps, etc.
 
I would not be surprised by both fire handles being pulled they slid for a while on the ground. Having the captain reach down and secure the good engine with the fire handle after it was obvious they were going fast off the end and a crash was imminent is plausible
 
M20K said:
I've seen a couple of people, that admit they don't fly this plane, say that if both engines are out, or both Fire handles are turned/activated, you loose all power and hydraulics.
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They are wrong, as I've explained above.

Tarheelpilot said:
I would not be surprised by both fire handles being pulled they slid for a while on the ground. Having the captain reach down and secure the good engine with the fire handle after it was obvious they were going fast off the end and a crash was imminent is plausible
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I would be. No benefit to doing so and you're too busy trying to keep the aircraft under control. Securing the engines is on the evacuation checklist which you don't do until you've stopped and have made the decision to evacuate.
 
Larry in TN said:
They are wrong, as I've explained above.


I would be. No benefit to doing so and you're too busy trying to keep the aircraft under control. Securing the engines is on the evacuation checklist which you don't do until you've stopped and have made the decision to evacuate.
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I know the procedure very well.

I’m just saying it wouldn’t surprise me if that’s what happened. We are after all speculating on how these guys, most likely, ****ed up not how they rigorously followed procedure.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
…We are after all speculating on how these guys, most likely, ****ed up ….
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From an American mindset no less. Folks were surprised a Korean carrier could let an FO have a job with the equivalent of C/MEL certificate and not 1500+hrs and an ATP.
 
Where I push back is not that Neo-Confucian culture isn't or doesn't create CRM hardships (it can, and it has), but rather the insinuation that the absence of Neo-confuscian culture somehow defintionally saves you from the former. That's where the latent racism lurks.

At any rate, North Americans are quite capable of boning up the flying bus thing, to industry changing levels. The demographic makeup of Colgan 3407 is far removed from Seoul as it gets, and look where they took everyone in a flaming handbasket, bystander non-121 pilots included.
 
TCABM said:
From an American mindset no less. Folks were surprised a Korean carrier could let an FO have a job with the equivalent of C/MEL certificate and not 1500+hrs and an ATP.
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Except those of us who were around before Colgan.
 
TCABM said:
From an American mindset no less. Folks were surprised a Korean carrier could let an FO have a job with the equivalent of C/MEL certificate and not 1500+hrs and an ATP.
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I have not read every post in this thread. I’m not sure what you are talking about. Is there a particular reason you quoted me?

I haven’t said anything disparaging about pilots from Korea or low time professionals.
 
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