Is Direct-Enter-Enter cheating?

Challenged

Challenged

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Challenged
I like to set my destination airport on the ground, then when I'm in the air and on on my way, I'll use direct-enter-enter instead of intercepting the original course. Are there pilots who intercept instead? I use this technique pretty often, even outside of the above example, where I might get off course a bit, am I bad pilot?
 
Are you on an IFR clearance?
 
Using it after takeoff is personal preference. It's more efficient to plot a new course especially if you got vectored or had to fly a tower assigned heading for a length of time after takeoff. Plotting a new course because you can't fly a course accurately is poor form and is equivalent to homing on an NDB or constantly adjusting the OBS when flying direct to a VOR.
 
Nothing wrong with that sometimes. Depends whether you have reason (terrain, weather, etc.) to return to original route, or if the new course line is just as good. But, any pilot should always strive to improve your route/course flying by using proper wind correction technique, more critical if you ever were to fly IFR. Of course, if you do the re-direct routine too many times, you'd end up "homing" to the waypoint/destination, resulting in sort of a tightening spiral path, ending with your aircraft travelling directly into the ambient wind aloft as you reach the destination. (Draw it out if not familiar with homing.) Yes, you'll get there, but not very efficiently.

edit:
oops, dmspilot beat me to it, and more succinctly, too!
 
dmspilot and Jim spot on. Happens to me all the time departing towered airport inside the SFRA, approach will assign a heading for a period of time. If I get vectored too far off course D-> Enter Enter. Otherwise I'll intercept the course. Or the autopilot will intercept the course.
 
Depends, lots of airspace around me and a perpetually active restricted airspace. So I need to careful, but if I determine I can avoid getting in trouble, then my first choice is direct - enter - enter, nav.
 
You are using the tools available to you, which I see as good resource management. Where it becomes a problem is if you let your skill set outside of the gps erode to where you are dependent on it.
 
jordane93 said:
I almost never intercept the course after being vectored.
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Huh? You just turn to a heading on vectors. You don't intercept anything (unless being vectored to intercept).
 
flyingron said:
Huh? You just turn to a heading on vectors. You don't intercept anything (unless being vectored to intercept).
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Maybe I misunderstood the OP. When I get a vector off course VFR then ATC clears me on course, I just go direct, enter, enter. I don’t re intercept the original course.
 
flyingron said:
Huh? You just turn to a heading on vectors. You don't intercept anything (unless being vectored to intercept).
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Original heading from the ramp to your first waypoint is 360 because that's where you programmed the GPS. You depart on 27 and ATC gives you runway heading for 15 miles, then say resume own navigation to said fix. You aren't going to fly all the way back to your original course which is a rhumb line from the ramp to the waypoint. Just -D-> enter enter from your current spot. (Obstacle and airspace notwithstanding)
 
One compelling reason to go back to your original course when you're VFR and not on ATC vectors would be if you'd chosen the original course carefully to avoid terrain and/or restricted airspace. I read of one accident where a commercially-registered plane took off at night in California, got vectored off course initially, then went direct straight into a mountain that their original course would have avoided. That's a rare situation, but do keep it in mind.

Otherwise, of course Direct-Enter-Enter makes the most sense VFR.
 
I don't think it makes a difference most of the time, you're usually talking about less than a mile difference from the starting point. In many cases it may not even be enough to change the on-course heading. Unless you're headed to a relatively close navaid/waypoint to avoid some kind of hazard or airspace you're really well within the expected margin of error for enroute navigation.

Over a say 100+ mile leg ATC probably won't even notice the difference. If anything I expect they'd probably prefer you reset your course and fly a predictable initial heading rather than try to maneuver around to intercept a line they know nothing about. If you're going to be THAT close to somewhere they don't want you to be you'll almost certainly get a vector.
 
If the OP's question is about what's expected in a flight test or BFR rather than in real-life flying, it might be a good idea to talk to the instructor/examiner beforehand to see what their expectation is.
 
jordane93 said:
I almost never intercept the course after being vectored.
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agree

jordane93 said:
Maybe I misunderstood the OP. When I get a vector off course VFR then ATC clears me on course, I just go direct, enter, enter. I don’t re intercept the original course.
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agree

EdFred said:
Original heading from the ramp to your first waypoint is 360 because that's where you programmed the GPS. You depart on 27 and ATC gives you runway heading for 15 miles, then say resume own navigation to said fix. You aren't going to fly all the way back to your original course which is a rhumb line from the ramp to the waypoint. Just -D-> enter enter from your current spot. (Obstacle and airspace notwithstanding)
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agree
 
Challenged said:
I like to set my destination airport on the ground, then when I'm in the air and on on my way, I'll use direct-enter-enter instead of intercepting the original course. Are there pilots who intercept instead? I use this technique pretty often, even outside of the above example, where I might get off course a bit, am I bad pilot?
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Unless your original course is carefully crafted avoid certain obstacles or airspaces, I see no point in trying to intercept the original course.
 
I'm guessing this is an IFR discussion. When flying VFR, my starting point is loaded into ForeFlight before I even leave for the airport. After departing I turn to catch the pre loaded magenta line, because all of my way points and alternative airport/landing spots are on the that course.
 
David Megginson said:
One compelling reason to go back to your original course when you're VFR and not on ATC vectors would be if you'd chosen the original course carefully to avoid terrain and/or restricted airspace. I read of one accident where a commercially-registered plane took off at night in California, got vectored off course initially, then went direct straight into a mountain that their original course would have avoided. That's a rare situation, but do keep it in mind.
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Here's an example of that:

As far as what to do other than in the terrain avoidance scenario, it depends. If IFR, fly your clearance. "Cleared direct fix" means directly to that fix, not backtracking to find your original direct line to the fix. If VFR, fly what makes sense. Direct-enter-enter is handy if you are off course, but as mentioned above you need to correct for the wind so you don't keep going off course and and up homing to the destination. (Wind isn't the only way to get off course, of course.)
 
So if I agree to your Agree on the disagree to my post then I now agree that this is about VFR

In which case I’m just that type of person who likes to plan out things - maybe over think a bit. So yeah - I’ll still turn to hit the magenta line.
 
There's an easy solution to this - don't activate direct to your destination while still on the ground. Get it entered, but then wait until after takeoff and initial climb to activate it. Voila, now you've only done it once and aren't "cheating".

That's only said a little in jest. The idea, usually barring something like a precision flight competition, isn't to go direct from your parking spot to the destination airport. It's to go to the destination airport via the shortest route, which would by default include climb and initial maneuvering. When I teach Private students (which is not often), I don't even have them plot a course line from airport to airport, because it's irrelevant. Rather, I have them plot the course starting at a nearby checkpoint they are likely to fly over once their climb is complete. Why make a plan which you know is 100% going to not work the instant you move from the parking spot? Same idea applies to GPS direct. Put it in there for reference, with the expectation that you will do re-do it after initial climb. It's not cheating, it's how it should be done.
 
Thats clever. Never heard of teaching how to build a nav log like that - but makes sense.
 
RussR said:
There's an easy solution to this - don't activate direct to your destination while still on the ground. Get it entered, but then wait until after takeoff and initial climb to activate it. Voila, now you've only done it once and aren't "cheating".

That's only said a little in jest. The idea, usually barring something like a precision flight competition, isn't to go direct from your parking spot to the destination airport. It's to go to the destination airport via the shortest route, which would by default include climb and initial maneuvering. When I teach Private students (which is not often), I don't even have them plot a course line from airport to airport, because it's irrelevant. Rather, I have them plot the course starting at a nearby checkpoint they are likely to fly over once their climb is complete. Why make a plan which you know is 100% going to not work the instant you move from the parking spot? Same idea applies to GPS direct. Put it in there for reference, with the expectation that you will do re-do it after initial climb. It's not cheating, it's how it should be done.
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except sometimes, for me quite often, you have to give a heading/direction of flight BEFORE you depart. hence plugging in the direct to on the ground, whether that's direct to destination or 1st waypoint, I don't think it matters in regards to what the OP is asking. I guess I'm a little confused, as this happens all the time, where I'm vectored a bit, off from my original direct to, then RE-direct to in flight.
 
I don't understand why it would be cheating, why would you fly longer in the wrong direction? Once you are off your vector, or done taking off or whatever then just hit direct enter enter.. short of some other limiting factor I don't know why you would try and intercept the original course
 
There are at least two reasons you might intercept a previously loaded route: (1) you are under ATC direction to intercept and join an airway, and (2) to assure terrain or airspace avoidance at the desired altitude. But normally, if on departure vectors, ATC will either release you to "resume own navigation" (VFR) or (IFR) cleared "direct XYZ" to a fix on your clearance route if not directed to join an airway as a part of your clearance. Either way, Direct-Enter-Enter will get you on your way directly.
 
EdFred said:
Original heading from the ramp to your first waypoint is 360 because that's where you programmed the GPS. You depart on 27 and ATC gives you runway heading for 15 miles, then say resume own navigation to said fix. You aren't going to fly all the way back to your original course which is a rhumb line from the ramp to the waypoint. Just -D-> enter enter from your current spot. (Obstacle and airspace notwithstanding)
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That I don't argue with, I just didn't understand what a vector had to do with intersecting a course.
 
Sure Direct Enter Enter is OK, but I don’t get why this is much of a question. When one creates a flight plan and enters the waypoints in one’s GPS, what is the big deal to take off any runway, follow ATC commands or vectors, or deviate around obstacles or airspace, or not if the original leg is aligned with flight plan. Whether VFR or especially with IFR, when desired or when requested, the usual thing to do is press direct to any waypoint on your flight plan for guidance.
 
My interpretation/limited experience:

When IFR and ATC is done vectoring you off of your planned route(e.g. maintain rwy heading after takeoff, vector for traffic, etc), they'll either clear you direct to a fix, or to re-intercept the airway/planned course. If told to proceed direct , you're expected to do so from your present position, so direct-enter-enter is the answer. If they want you to reintercept your original course or airway, they'll either tell you that, or vector you back onto it and "resume own navigation." But the former is more likely.

When VFR, unless you have a reason for plotting your course a specific way(obstacles, airspace, VFR checkpoints, etc), I see no reason to reintercept if not for practice intercepting/tracking a course. As others have said, it's a valuable tool as long as you don't depend on the magic magenta line to do your thinking.
 
WDD said:
Thats clever. Never heard of teaching how to build a nav log like that - but makes sense.
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You talking about this?
RussR said:
Rather, I have them plot the course starting at a nearby checkpoint they are likely to fly over once their climb is complete.
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I taught something similar when I did primary training in a world without widespread GPS use. This is from a cross country handout I wrote 20 years ago

Your first and last checkpoints are important. Your first should be relatively near (about 10 NM away from) the airport so that you know that you are on the right course and have a reference point in case you have to maneuver in the area when departing. Your last should also be about 10 NM away and be one that identifies roads and landmarks that will bring you to the airport at a lower altitude, just like we do when coming back from the practice area. You might say to yourself, “If I follow this road or turn in this direction when reaching the checkpoint, it will bring me right to the airport pattern.”
​
 
chemgeek said:
There are at least two reasons you might intercept a previously loaded route: (1) you are under ATC direction to intercept and join an airway, and (2) to assure terrain or airspace avoidance at the desired altitude. But normally, if on departure vectors, ATC will either release you to "resume own navigation" (VFR) or (IFR) cleared "direct XYZ" to a fix on your clearance route if not directed to join an airway as a part of your clearance. Either way, Direct-Enter-Enter will get you on your way directly.
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I get "resume own navigation" only when I'm IFR. If I'm VFR, like the original question in this thread, it will be less formal, like "continue enroute", "climb 7,500 and continue to X", etc.
 
I heard a rather testy exchange from ATC once where the controller announced: "Resume own navigation" means "continue on your cleared route" not "go direct to destination."
 
David Megginson said:
I get "resume own navigation" only when I'm IFR. If I'm VFR, like the original question in this thread, it will be less formal, like "continue enroute", "climb 7,500 and continue to X", etc.
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I’ve never heard “continue enroute” one time flying VFR. Always get resume own nav.
 
eman1200 said:
except sometimes, for me quite often, you have to give a heading/direction of flight BEFORE you depart.
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While entering direct-to is certainly a way to find this information, I would suggest that if you don't already know the approximate heading to get where you're going before you depart, you haven't done adequate preflight planning.

At least in my experience, when ATC asks for your desired heading, it's when they don't recognize the airport ID you're going to, and really just need a general sense of which way you're going (East? West?). So they usually don't need "it's on a track of 103.2 degrees", but rather, 100, or 105, "about 110?" or sometimes even "East" will be sufficient.
 
RussR said:
While entering direct-to is certainly a way to find this information, I would suggest that if you don't already know the approximate heading to get where you're going before you depart, you haven't done adequate preflight planning.

At least in my experience, when ATC asks for your desired heading, it's when they don't recognize the airport ID you're going to, and really just need a general sense of which way you're going (East? West?). So they usually don't need "it's on a track of 103.2 degrees", but rather, 100, or 105, "about 110?" or sometimes even "East" will be sufficient.
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That’s interesting considering you said you don’t even have students plot from destination to first checkpoint.

And yes, from my home class delta, “departing to the northeast” is usually sufficient.
 
flyingron said:
I heard a rather testy exchange from ATC once where the controller announced: "Resume own navigation" means "continue on your cleared route" not "go direct to destination."
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“But I was just talking to you! Clear me!”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
flyingron said:
I heard a rather testy exchange from ATC once where the controller announced: "Resume own navigation" means "continue on your cleared route" not "go direct to destination."
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When on IFR you resume your clearance, although when taken off route I generally get "direct next waypoint, resume own navigation".

I do get "resume own navigation" when on flight following after being vectored around something while vfr, it happens. In that case, 9 time out of 10 I will hit "direct, enter, enter" to the next waypoint.
 
drummer4468 said:
“But I was just talking to you! Clear me!”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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flyingron said:
I heard a rather testy exchange from ATC once where the controller announced: "Resume own navigation" means "continue on your cleared route" not "go direct to destination."
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Was that IFR or VFR? If you're IFR, then yes, "resume own navigation" means to continue on your currently-cleared routing. The "own navigation" part just means that you're not on vectors any more.
 
IFR. Outside of class B airspace, you won't have a "cleared route" VFR.
 
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