Is AOPA asleep again?

[Fearless Tower]

There were people at RDU when I was there (Thursday), wearing black AOPA shirts with cameras (still and video), interviewing people, photographing airplane loading, etc. There may be something out soon. But as Airdrop's mission timeframe was about a week (last Sunday was the last day flying), there really wasn't time for anyone to create much publicity. Although the local Raleigh media did a good job getting the word out and attracting donations to the airport collection site. Over 550 flights, 280,000 lb cargo delivered!

Sounds like Airdrop at least accomplished something.

Angel Flight Mid-Atlantic keeps talking like they are doing stuff, but really it is a disorganized mess.

 

[paflyer]

I often questioned my membership to AOPA, but have kept it so far. I can tell you from being on the politico government side, it is important to have actual lobby power. It isn't enough to say there are 200,000 pilots in this country. The politicians need to have someone in their office, in their face, reminding them of the issues and keeping them informed. I have heard countless times from politicians, that they have been swayed by who is talking to them, because they don't have the time to research every issue themselves. It does make an impact. Without AOPA and other organizations, the airline lobbies would have already taken over the airspace through their attempts at privatization. Users fees would have massacred an already weak GA segment. We need representation on the hill, and for better or worse, AOPA does it for GA.

Shortly after things returned to "normal" following 9/11, I told Phil Boyer at a local Town Hall meeting that I was convinced that without AOPA's efforts there would be no more private flying as we knew it. He was modest in his response, but I knew it was true.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

Shortly after things returned to "normal" following 9/11, I told Phil Boyer at a local Town Hall meeting that I was convinced that without AOPA's efforts there would be no more private flying as we knew it. He was modest in his response, but I knew it was true.

well....Sean Elliot and his guys from EAA keep things greased and moving at the FAA....and there are others....Sara Macleod (ARSA) is one you want in your camp too.

 

[iflyatiger]

Things were different back then with aopa under Phil's leadership.. I remember seeing Phil on public tv many times advocating for us..

I also felt the same way as you did, that aopa really helped get GA through that time. But that was 17 long years ago.. If they are going to be the main GA organization (and collect and spend the money that goes along with that) we need them to be working for us now..

Shortly after things returned to "normal" following 9/11, I told Phil Boyer at a local Town Hall meeting that I was convinced that without AOPA's efforts there would be no more private flying as we knew it. He was modest in his response, but I knew it was true.

 

[iflyatiger]

Sorry to rain on your rain but..

This is exactly my point. Who is going to see a report on aopa live? Us that's who.. They need to be influencing the general public and the lawmakers, those are the people that we want and need on our side..

Sorry to rain on the AOPA bashing, but it was indeed covered in AOPA Live.

 

[jonnyjetprop]

Sorry to rain on your rain but..

This is exactly my point. Who is going to see a report on aopa live? Us that's who.. They need to be influencing the general public and the lawmakers, those are the people that we want and need on our side..

It’s on YouTube so anyone can see it.

 

[MauleSkinner]

It’s on YouTube so anyone can see it.

...and how do they advertise it so that the general public and lawmakers might notice it?

 

[Mtns2Skies]

This is exactly my point.

No it isn't THIS was your point:

Why didn't AOPA take advantage of the incredible outpouring of generosity and the benefits provided by Operation Air Drop?
Why is it that I have to think of the obvious here? Doesn't AOPA have employees that are paid to think of this type of thing?

But now that I've shown you were wrong you want to change it. All you wanted is a thread to bash AOPA regardless of the reasons you give.

Who is going to see a report on aopa live? Us that's who.. They need to be influencing the general public and the lawmakers, those are the people that we want and need on our side..

AOPA does have outreach programs, and guess what? Not all outreach lies on them. Go share that AOPA live video on your facebook or whatever social media you use. They've given us the tools to click quite literally two buttons and there, any friends you have that aren't pilots get to see it, that's how activism works. What exactly do you expect them to do? force the entire US population to watch their program?

I'm not super pro-AOPA, but they have their place. They are an unbelievable resource when it was time for me to purchase my aircraft and that has earned my membership. I certainly don't believe they deserve all the flak they get. This is just the division in aviation that is counterproductive to our cause and it's another reason that many would-be pilots don't get into aviation. Just be supportive of people that care about the same things as you, and stop putting up arbitrary barriers for their success.

 

[LoLPilot]

No it isn't THIS was your point:

But now that I've shown you were wrong you want to change it. All you wanted is a thread to bash AOPA regardless of the reasons you give.

AOPA does have outreach programs, and guess what? Not all outreach lies on them. Go share that AOPA live video on your facebook or whatever social media you use. They've given us the tools to click quite literally two buttons and there, any friends you have that aren't pilots get to see it, that's how activism works. What exactly do you expect them to do? force the entire US population to watch their program?

I'm not super pro-AOPA, but they have their place. They are an unbelievable resource when it was time for me to purchase my aircraft and that has earned my membership. I certainly don't believe they deserve all the flak they get. This is just the division in aviation that is counterproductive to our cause and it's another reason that many would-be pilots don't get into aviation. Just be supportive of people that care about the same things as you, and stop putting up arbitrary barriers for their success.

M2S makes a good point in that I think we sometimes are our own worst enemies when advocating for GA. It’s great that there are organizations like the EAA and AOPA but pilots need to stand up for general aviation themselves.

A few years back a certain magazine posted an article with a headline that was something like “leaded gas has been illegal for decades - unless you fly your own plane,” and then proceeded to talk about how children around airports had lower IQ’s and it was probably the fault of lead in avgas. The implication being that us *rich* pilots didn’t care. I didn’t even bother to read the comment section but I have a feeling that there weren’t any pilots saying anything like “first of all, most of us are not independently wealthy. We are normal people who occasionally make weird rationalizations to afford this because we love it, and don’t blame us for leaded gas because we hate it as much or more than you. Blame the FAA for being slower than a snail crawling uphill in researching other fuel options for small aircraft.” And I didn’t comment either, so I’m just as much to blame there as everyone else. Unless we are willing to defend this we can’t really expect someone else to either.

 

[iflyatiger]

A. Absolutely not aopa bashing.. Instead pointing out (sure, with a touch of sarcasm) what I believe is a missed opportunity and offering specific suggestions that I believe might be valuable to the goal of promoting GA..

Of course they (aopa) have their place, you don't hear me calling for their disbanding.
And this type of discussion or feeling is not a division in aviation it is simply the desire for our organization to do more or do better..

B. Wrong about me changing my tune from the original post..
Here are a few parts of my original post with the pertinent parts highlighted..

"They should have gone nationwide with this story and keyed in on a few facts."

"And yes I did a Google search for " AOPA Florence " and sure a few links are returned but they are links to the AOPA website or news articles on the AOPA domain. This search should yield results from all forms of national media and other sites."

"Why is it that I have to think of the obvious here? Doesn't AOPA have employees that are paid to think of this type of thing"
*The obvious being looking for and acting on opportunities to publicize to the widest possible audience good things that GA does that might influence the public to our cause.

No it isn't THIS was your point:

But now that I've shown you were wrong you want to change it. All you wanted is a thread to bash AOPA regardless of the reasons you give.

AOPA does have outreach programs, and guess what? Not all outreach lies on them. Go share that AOPA live video on your facebook or whatever social media you use. They've given us the tools to click quite literally two buttons and there, any friends you have that aren't pilots get to see it, that's how activism works. What exactly do you expect them to do? force the entire US population to watch their program?

I'm not super pro-AOPA, but they have their place. They are an unbelievable resource when it was time for me to purchase my aircraft and that has earned my membership. I certainly don't believe they deserve all the flak they get. This is just the division in aviation that is counterproductive to our cause and it's another reason that many would-be pilots don't get into aviation. Just be supportive of people that care about the same things as you, and stop putting up arbitrary barriers for their success.

 

[iflyatiger]

Wow very funny.. Just looked at my post history to see how much aopa bashing I do and instead found this. Posted sept 17th 2017
I guess I really believe what I am saying about aopa and getting the word out..

Posted sept 17th 2017
Do you think AOPA is documenting all the ways that general aviation and the smaller community airports are helping the public during the hurricane aftermath in Texas and Florida? I mean I am reading about some really great efforts by volunteer pilots and aircraft owners to help communities hit by the hurricanes that wouldn't be happening if not for general aviation and the smaller close by airports..

I am not suggesting that anyone get distracted from the real mission of helping but wouldn't it be great if AOPA stepped up and showed the public or the government what we can do to help in times of crisis..

Do you think AOPA has thought of this? Are they just waiting for the right timing?

Has anyone seen anything from them on regular tv or in the regular print media lately?

 

[Mtns2Skies]

A. Absolutely not aopa bashing.. Instead pointing out (sure, with a touch of sarcasm) what I believe is a missed opportunity and offering specific suggestions that I believe might be valuable to the goal of promoting GA..

... But they didn't miss that opportunity...

You're getting pretty specific with exactly how they should handle this. Maybe start your own organization and do it yourself, that's clearly the tone you're taking here. I think they're doing fine.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

M2S makes a good point in that I think we sometimes are our own worst enemies when advocating for GA.

No kidding. We, on this board, recently took a person who was interested in flying and literally ran them off in three hours. Good work, guys.

 

[MauleSkinner]

Just be supportive of people that care about the same things as you....

That's the problem... I don't see that AOPA cares about the same things I do.

 

[TomHaines]

Thanks, @SkyDog58 for the invitation.
To @iflyatiger , AOPA does have a media relations staff member. We receive multiple calls a week from reporters seeking information about GA, usually safety related questions because of an accident in their area or related to local airports. We hook them up with safety and airport experts on our staffs. Sometimes AOPA is cited as a source; often it is on background.

Regarding, outreach to garner coverage of events such as GA participation in Florence relief, we do pitch those stories--sometimes even offering up our photos and video to support them, but few reporters are actually looking for stories. Most have plenty to cover. Reporters these days are judged by their management by the number of clicks their stories get. A feel-good story about a bunch of "rich aircraft owners donating a couple of days flying food" (as they would see it) won't get as many clicks as some other sensationalist story the reporter can spend less time researching and writing. I wish that weren't the case, but that's the news business these days. FWIW, we have been working for weeks with a PBS reporter about a story on the pilot population and the pilot shortage and industry efforts to resolve it. However, her best guess is it won't make News Hour and will be an online story only.

Meanwhile, we have written and videotaped several stories ourselves about GA relief flights and Florence, including this one on the top of our home page today: https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media...tion-airdrop-sets-record-for-hurricane-relief. Those stories get pushed out through our daily eBrief email newsletter, the circulation of which goes well beyond our own membership, including to some media and many members of Congress and DC influencers.

@Tantalum You say you haven't been a member of AOPA in more than a decade, yet you claim to be some sort of expert on what the organization is or isn't doing. I wonder if you leave reviews for restaurants you haven't visited in the past decade or so? AOPA members who pay attention will know that AOPA has spent millions in the past couple of years on the You Can Fly program (https://youcanfly.aopa.org/), a series of initiatives all designed to help pilots and prospects from cradle to grave. Among the initiatives is the High School Curriculum program, which is developing free aviation-oriented STEM curriculum for grades nine through 12. The ninth grade curriculum was Beta tested in 30 schools or so last year and this year some 2,000 students in 80 schools are using it with many more evaluating this year. Meanwhile the 10th grade curriculum is being tested in some 40 schools and will be rolled out in time to support those ninth graders as they move into 10th grade--continuing on until all four grades are complete.

Some 5,700 pilots who hadn't flown on average in 8 years are now back flying again because of the Rusty Pilots program; tens of thousands more have taken the course since its inception three years ago.

Another You Can Fly program is aimed at keeping pilots in the air by supporting flying clubs and creating new ones. AOPA is the only organization with full time staff providing free expertise to those interested in starting new clubs. The program has started 93 flying clubs since its inception--and will top 100 by year end. Some 900 other clubs are members of our network. AOPA has five full time ambassadors scattered around the county whose only job is to provide free support to flying clubs and those wanting to start one, conducting Rusty Pilots seminars, and supporting flight schools.

The final You Can Fly program relates to improving the flight training experience. We are developing modern, 21st century adaptive learning curriculum for flight schools--designed to engage flight students the way people actually learn nowadays. We are also developing customer service training modules, marketing and promotional training and other resources to help flight schools be more effective in getting and keeping students.

I could write much more regarding recent advocacy wins such as BasicMed, preventing ATC privatization, educating the FAA about the importance of providing alternative certification pathways to upgrade the legacy fleet, and countless wins at the state level regarding things such as sales tax elimination on aviation maintenance and parts. But the naysayers have already stopped reading.

Others may want to simply pay more attention to AOPA's content. ePilot, our weekly email newsletter is free to members and a great way to keep up with what is going on. AOPA Live This Week (https://aopalive.aopa.org/) is a quick 15 to 20 minute watch available to anyone that summarizes the week's news and carries some pretty cool video stories.

Thanks for checking out what AOPA is doing TODAY and not relying on past perceptions.

 

[MauleSkinner]

Thanks for checking out what AOPA is doing TODAY and not relying on past perceptions.

Thanks for showing that past perceptions are still accurate.

 

[TomHaines]

Thanks for showing that past perceptions are still accurate.

Cheap shots are easy.

 

[MauleSkinner]

Cheap shots are easy.

True...but I wasted my time trying 10 years ago, why waste it now?

 

[tspear]

Thanks for showing that past perceptions are still accurate.

I have yet to see you state the following:
1. What do you care about.
2. How does AOPA nor address your concerns.
3. Why AOPA should only address your concerns.
4. What have you actually done to address your concerns.

Tim

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[tspear]

Wow very funny.. Just looked at my post history to see how much aopa bashing I do and instead found this. Posted sept 17th 2017
I guess I really believe what I am saying about aopa and getting the word out..

Posted sept 17th 2017
Do you think AOPA is documenting all the ways that general aviation and the smaller community airports are helping the public during the hurricane aftermath in Texas and Florida? I mean I am reading about some really great efforts by volunteer pilots and aircraft owners to help communities hit by the hurricanes that wouldn't be happening if not for general aviation and the smaller close by airports..

I am not suggesting that anyone get distracted from the real mission of helping but wouldn't it be great if AOPA stepped up and showed the public or the government what we can do to help in times of crisis..

Do you think AOPA has thought of this? Are they just waiting for the right timing?

Has anyone seen anything from them on regular tv or in the regular print media lately?

I am not in marketing but even I in now advertising is expensive. AOPA like most non-profit organizations depends on the concept of free press or earned media.
In today's media market, feel good does not sell.

Therefore, if you want an AOPA message to go viral, you and your closest 10,000 friends need to broadcast the message. Once you get a million people to click on something it can trend. Once trending it goes viral.

Having paid the bills for adwords and straight radio and TV ads, there is very little else I would advise AOPA to be doing in media engagement.

Maybe AOPA should start a dedicated fund for marketing to pay for advertising. You can provide the kickoff funds and leadership, AOPA would back it with admin support and premade videos.


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[MauleSkinner]

I have yet to see you state the following:
1. What do you care about.
2. How does AOPA nor address your concerns.
3. Why AOPA should only address your concerns.
4. What have you actually done to address your concerns.

Tim

Sent from my SM-J737T using Tapatalk

1. Not important to AOPA, therefore not relevant.
2. Not important to AOPA, therefore not relevant.
3. I never said anything like that.
4. Ask AOPA.

 

[tspear]

1. Not important to AOPA, therefore not relevant.
2. Not important to AOPA, therefore not relevant.
3. I never said anything like that.
4. Ask AOPA.

Ah, a useful answer. Why depend on hearsay? Get the information from the source.

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[MauleSkinner]

Ah, a useful answer. Why depend on hearsay? Get the information from the source.

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See #4.

Edit: #1 and #2 would probably be more accurate.

 

[TomHaines]

True...but I wasted my time trying 10 years ago, why waste it now?

That's the spirit. Closed mind. Clinging to the past.

 

[tspear]

See #4.

So we are supposed to infer your complaint about AOPA from cluemister?

Talk about cherry pick facts. Pilots for years complained that they did not know anyone at AOPA, so they started a profile employee segment. That is super cheap to implement, and lets you meet virtually the whole organization over the years.
This was a smart idea.

If you head the AOPA rag to see these articles, the reality is 70% or more of the magazine is human interest stuff dealing with people who are not part of AOPA. (I just counted the pages)


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[flyingcheesehead]

1. Not important to AOPA, therefore not relevant.
2. Not important to AOPA, therefore not relevant.
3. I never said anything like that.
4. Ask AOPA.

"I'm mad at AOPA!"
"Why?"
"I'm mad at AOPA!"

If you share with us what you actually want AOPA to be doing, you might find some agreement. Otherwise, you're wasting your breath.

@TomHaines, thanks for the excellent synopsis.

 

[MauleSkinner]

That's the spirit. Closed mind. Clinging to the past.

Your posts show me that the past is alive and well. If I were clinging to the past, I'd be saying the same things I did ten years ago, and apparently getting the same responses.

Have a nice day.

 

[MauleSkinner]

"I'm mad at AOPA!"
"Why?"
"I'm mad at AOPA!"

If you share with us what you actually want AOPA to be doing, you might find some agreement. Otherwise, you're wasting your breath.

@TomHaines, thanks for the excellent synopsis.

I'm not looking for agreement.

 

[Tantalum]

Wow.. this thread turnef into a dumpster fire

@TomHaines I am active in the aviation community and participate in a lot of events I'm not part of. As a member I didn't have value then, and as a non-member I have not been compelled to rejoin.. the spam emails telling me that my membership is expiring doesn't really mean much, it's a cheap marketing tactic.. if you spend any real time on the aopa website there is not much there that compels me to join.. at least in a capacity that advocates. EAA does things much better, IMHO

But like others said, different strokes for different folks..

Not about being right or wrong, or who has the bigger internet voice.. I just don't feel like spending the money on it as I honestly have no idea what that money will help me do when I'm filing a flight plan and flying from MYF to SBP, APA, etc. If I am missing something please let me know

 

[TomHaines]

@Tantalum in your original post you concluded that AOPA is not effective in making a difference on major initiatives and doing nothing to grow the pilot population:

If our government, or the airliners, or someone else, wanted to make GA flying so difficult that it would effectively die, well there is nothing AOPA could do about it... they don't have any real leverage or bargaining power. Someone decides to ban AVGAS because of the lead.. what is AOPA going to do? Tell them "don't ban avgas.. if you do then we'll stop flying Cessna's over your house" ? AARP does, NRA does, many organizations do... but AOPA?

The best way to lobby for GA's rights (whatever that may mean) is to grow the active pilot community, that would also reduce costs overall. To that end, I see EAA, and like I said even CAP, doing much more to achieve that. My opinions on CAP are well known here, but many people grew up in the cadets and had their first few flights and got the taste of GA from CAP... so to that end CAP is getting people involved in aviation.. so I can't really figure out what it is that AOPA *actually* does.
​

The airlines did effectively decide to shut GA down by advocating for an ATC system that would give them control over the skies and that would be the death knell for GA, as it has been in the 60+ countries that have non-governmental ATC systems. The defeat of that propsal, which had huge congressional and White House backing, occurred because AOPA and its engaged members weighed in and stopped it. NBAA was also a big force, but without AOPA's numbers it would not have been stopped.

There have been multiple attempts to ban avgas. Again, AOPA weighed in and was influential in stopping that.

You suggest someone should work to "grow the active pilot community." I outlined numerous ways that AOPA is doing that. But in your latest post, you changed the argument and now care about what has been done to assist "when I'm filing a flight plan and flying from MYF to SBP, APA, etc."

I could point again (as I did in my post) that AOPA advocated for and was successful in working with the FAA in to simplify the certification process for moving modern avionics and other systems from the Experimental world into legacy aircraft and doing it in a way that dramatically reduced the cost for such equipment. This resulted in such products the Garmin G5 and various new lower cost autopilots. And the cost of ADS-B compliance is half to one-third what it was four years ago as a result of AOPA's Mark Baker personally leaning on various avionics manufacturers to come up with creative lower cost solutions for the legacy fleet. The Garmin GDL-82 is referred interanally at Garmin as the Baker Model because of his insistence that what GA needed was an ADS-B Out system that cost less than $2,000. This at a time when the cheapest solution was $5,000. Garmin responded with the GDL-82, at $1,795.

All of those solutions could in fact help you as you're flying from MYF to SBP and beyond. And if you spent time in the Travel section of our web site you might find some new places to fly.

You say you are active in the aviation community. I would suggest that if you spent a little more time paying attention to priorities at AOPA and reading our content, you might have a better sense of what is really going on.

 

[kyleb]

And the cost of ADS-B compliance is half to one-third what it was four years ago as a result of AOPA's Mark Baker personally leaning on various avionics manufacturers to come up with creative lower cost solutions for the legacy fleet.

ADSB was AOPA's big miss. The airspace limitations are ridiculous. AOPA sat on the sidelines, even cheered, as that disaster unfolded. That was AOPA's opportunity to lay on the proverbial railroad tracks and prevent the mess. Pushing others for a less expensive solution to a problem that AOPA should have prevented is not a win.

 

[tspear]

ADSB was AOPA's big miss. The airspace limitations are ridiculous. AOPA sat on the sidelines, even cheered, as that disaster unfolded. That was AOPA's opportunity to lay on the proverbial railroad tracks and prevent the mess. Pushing others for a less expensive solution to a problem that AOPA should have prevented is not a win.

I lived in the DC area when ADS-B was first proposed. AOPA fought GA being included. So did NBAA. The reality, unless all the members get up in arms, lobbying has limited influence and the airlines have more of it.

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[kyleb]

How is ADS-B a disaster?

Unnecessary airspace restrictions. Why in the world do I need ADS-B when flying below Hartsfield's airspace, for instance? It isn't like the airliners are down low among the C-172's and Cirri using the local GA fields.

 

[midwestpa24]

Unnecessary airspace restrictions. Why in the world do I need ADS-B when flying below Hartsfield's airspace, for instance? It isn't like the airliners are down low among the C-172's and Cirri using the local GA fields.

I bet you were against Mode-C transponders as well. We all demand the FAA modernize ATC, then protest when it affects us.

My only gripe about ADS-B is the lack of anonymity, and that anyone with $200 of hardware can receive the information. I am all for moving to a GPS based transponder system.

 

[kyleb]

I bet you were against Mode-C transponders as well. We all demand the FAA modernize ATC, then protest when it affects us.

Aah, a rhetorical attack instead of a response to the question. I wasn't around when Mode C came about.

What benefits do I get from the mandated portion of ADS-B? Remind me.

Traffic separation? Nope. Not provided in the airspace where I fly. I'm not IFR and don't generally fly inside airspace where separation services are provided.

Weather and other safety functionality? Nope. Not part of the mandate.

The only thing the mandated portion of ADS-B does in most of the VFR GA world is allow someone to specifically track an airplane's movement by n-number. It is a surveillance tool. It is a very logical path to user fees.

 

[tspear]

Aah, a rhetorical attack instead of a response to the question. I wasn't around when Mode C came about.

What benefits do I get from the mandated portion of ADS-B? Remind me.

Traffic separation? Nope. Not provided in the airspace where I fly. I'm not IFR and don't generally fly inside airspace where separation services are provided.

Weather and other safety functionality? Nope. Not part of the mandate.

The only thing the mandated portion of ADS-B does in most of the VFR GA world is allow someone to specifically track an airplane's movement by n-number. It is a surveillance tool. It is a very logical path to user fees.

I agreed until you got to the end.
User fees can easily be done with ADS-B.

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[kyleb]

I agreed until you got to the end.
User fees can easily be done with ADS-B.

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Didn't you just agree with what I wrote?

 

[tspear]

Didn't you just agree with what I wrote?

I disagree that it is a logical path to user fees.
This is a red herring argument in my opinion. There are many ways using existing information to implement user fees. ADS-B does not make this harder or easier. In fact it is a disincentive since it does not increase a paperpusher's fiefdom.

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[Hank S]

The "S" in ADS-B stands for "surveillance," and it increases the bureaucrat's fiefdom by allowing him to watch every flight, and tax each one if he wants to . . .

 

[Hank S]

The "S" in ADS-B stands for "surveillance," and it increases the bureaucrat's fiefdom by allowing him to watch every flight, and tax each one if he wants to . . .