Instrument check ride discontinuance

mscard88

mscard88

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Woman at the flight school was doing her instrument check in her father's Lance. She couldn't produce a list of ADs so the DRE could check they had been complied with in the maintenance logbooks. Discontinuance. I don't know if this is a personal things w/ this DPE or not. The flight school is aware of it and provides lists of ADs for their planes. Man she was hot too, and a dentist. Made my teeth hurt looking at her in those tight jeans. :)
 
Proving to the DPE that your airplane is "airworthy" is part of any checkride. However deep the examiner chooses to go in that is fair game, I guess.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Proving to the DPE that your airplane is "airworthy" is part of any checkride. However deep the examiner chooses to go in that is fair game, I guess.
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Understand that. As I said the flight is aware and provides the list. This was also one of the flight school's CFIs so he apparently forgot to have her provide it. Sucked for her though.
 
Nitpicking bureaucrat.
I've flown to other cities for checkrides. No way would I think to grab my aircraft maintenance records. Maybe if he warned her, or it was common knowledge this DPE was in the habit of this.
The pilot is under examination here, not the airplane.
 
List of ADs? The fact that the annual was signed off is certification that the ADs have been dealt with. The only thing that could happen is a newly issued one came out after the annual but I don't see how a "list" in the log books addresses that.

The DPE is on some sort of power trip.
 
mscard88 said:
Woman at the flight school was doing her instrument check in her father's Lance. She couldn't produce a list of ADs so the DRE could check they had been complied with in the maintenance logbooks. Discontinuance. I don't know if this is a personal things w/ this DPE or not. The flight school is aware of it and provides lists of ADs for their planes. Man she was hot too, and a dentist. Made my teeth hurt looking at her in those tight jeans. :)
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Thanks for providing all the pertinent details, but I'm not sure I believe you without pictures. ;)
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Nitpicking bureaucrat.
I've flown to other cities for checkrides. No way would I think to grab my aircraft maintenance records. Maybe if he warned her, or it was common knowledge this DPE was in the habit of this.
The pilot is under examination here, not the airplane.
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No, the airplane has to be airworthy, and providing maintenance logbooks is not unusual. This was the first I heard of providing a list of ADs for a particular airframe. Seems he or the applicant could have brought them up on a computer and printed it out.
 
PaulS said:
Thanks for providing all the pertinent details, but I'm not sure I believe you without pictures. ;)
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Well her dad was there along with the DPE, 4-5 CFIs, etc etc...
 
flyingron said:
List of ADs? The fact that the annual was signed off is certification that the ADs have been dealt with. The only thing that could happen is a newly issued one came out after the annual but I don't see how a "list" in the log books addresses that.

The DPE is on some sort of power trip.
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Good point Ron. Guess it's just this DPE's deal.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Nitpicking bureaucrat.
I've flown to other cities for checkrides. No way would I think to grab my aircraft maintenance records. Maybe if he warned her, or it was common knowledge this DPE was in the habit of this.
The pilot is under examination here, not the airplane.
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As a DE I sent several applicants back to home base because they did not bring the aircraft/engine logs. Being able to find and interpret inspection and maintenance records is part of being a pilot.

Bob
 
bobmrg said:
As a DE I sent several applicants back to home base because they did not bring the aircraft/engine logs. Being able to find and interpret inspection and maintenance records is part of being a pilot.

Bob
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It wasn't that Bob, he wanted a list of ADs applicable to the plane so he could check that they were complied with in the logs. The flight school knows and provides a list as they use this DPE a lot. She was using her Dad's plane.
 
Well, let's see what FAA guidance and regulations say.

8900.2B General Aviation Airman Designee Handbook states in part:

Section 7. Conduct a Private Pilot Certification, Including Additional Category/Class Ratings at the Private Pilot Certification Level 58. General. The designee conducting the practical test reviews the applicant’s aircraft maintenance records, aircraft logbooks, airworthiness certificate, Federal Communications Commission (FCC) aircraft station license (if applicable), and aircraft registration to determine that the aircraft is Airworthy and suitable for the practical test.

The language is similar for other certificates such as Commercial Pilot.

So then, what is included in maintenance records?


§91.417 Maintenance records.
(a) Except for work performed in accordance with §§91.411 and 91.413, each registered owner or operator shall keep the following records for the periods specified in paragraph (b) of this section:

(1) Records of the maintenance, preventive maintenance, and alteration and records of the 100-hour, annual, progressive, and other required or approved inspections, as appropriate, for each aircraft (including the airframe) and each engine, propeller, rotor, and appliance of an aircraft. The records must include—
.
(2) Records containing the following information:
.
(v) The current status of applicable airworthiness directives (AD) and safety directives including, for each, the method of compliance, the AD or safety directive number and revision date. If the AD or safety directive involves recurring action, the time and date when the next action is required.

So, was the DPE wrong? I don't see how.
 
AndrewX said:
AD's are available online. Maybe next time go to this link:
"Each pilot in command shall, before beginning a flight, become familiar with all available information concerning that flight."
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Slight tangent- Do you really believe the FAA expects pilots to perform a AD verification each time they fly an aircraft?

Anyways I have always brought logbooks for inspection on check rides. I have never had a DPE make me show him where the ADs were complied with. The only thing they ever looked for was just a sign off on the annual/100 hr so I can show him I understand how to do that.
 
Not at all surprised that the checkride was discontinued, but the bigger question I would have is: was the discontinuance written up as a failure? In other words, is the applicant out their examiner fee and have to pay again to continue, or was it treated like a maintenance or weather reschedule?


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mscard88 said:
It wasn't that Bob, he wanted a list of ADs applicable to the plane so he could check that they were complied with in the logs. The flight school knows and provides a list as they use this DPE a lot. She was using her Dad's plane.
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That in itself doesn’t surprise me. Every examiner I’ve used wanted to see that.


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Fearless Tower said:
Not at all surprised that the checkride was discontinued, but the bigger question I would have is: was the discontinuance written up as a failure? In other words, is the applicant out their examiner fee and have to pay again to continue, or was it treated like a maintenance or weather reschedule?


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Don't know Dave. I walked into it when they were in the FBO lobby. Another CFI told me. She really didn't seem upset so hopefully not.

Edit: @Fearless Tower No, found out it's been rescheduled and everyone is happy.
 
Last edited:
Fearless Tower said:
That in itself doesn’t surprise me. Every examiner I’ve used wanted to see that.


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A separate lists of ADs so that he could verify they were complied with in the logbook?
 
mscard88 said:
A separate lists of ADs so that he could verify they were complied with in the logbook?
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Yeah, all the clubs and maintenance shops I’ve used always had an AD sheet for the airplane with all applicable ADs and when they were last complied with.

It isn’t specifically required for the airplane to be airworthy, but it makes it so much easier as a renter or owner to track/monitor compliance

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SkyDog58 said:
So, was the DPE wrong? I don't see how.
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I dunno 'Dog. Apparently this DPE wants a separate listing of ADs applicable to that airplane. Regardless that they're in the logbooks, in addition to so he can cross check I guess.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Yeah, all the clubs and maintenance shops I’ve used always had an AD sheet for the airplane with all applicable ADs and when they were last complied with.

It isn’t specifically required for the airplane to be airworthy, but it makes it so much easier as a renter or owner to track/monitor compliance

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Yeah I flight school provides a list but she was using her Dad's Lance and the flight school CFI she used (she could use me just saying) either forgot or was unaware.
 
mscard88 said:
Yeah I flight school provides a list but she was using her Dad's Lance and the flight school CFI she used (she could use me just saying) either forgot or was unaware.
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It happens, but like I was saying, it doesn’t mean the airplane was not legal, just that the DPE wanted a simple, quick way of verifying that it was.

As long as the DPE isn’t going to make her pay again, it’s not that big of a deal.
 
Fearless Tower said:
It happens, but like I was saying, it doesn’t mean the airplane was not legal, just that the DPE wanted a simple, quick way of verifying that it was.

As long as the DPE isn’t going to make her pay again, it’s not that big of a deal.
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Agree other than she has to reschedule and probably fly a few more lessons to maintain proficiency.
 
I wonder if the DPE is using this as a teaching moment for aircraft owners. I know I would, if I was in that position.

Far too many owners do not understand their obligations when it comes to properly caring for and maintaining an airplane in an airworthy condition. The troubling part to me is that they have no problem flying them in this condition, even when they know it isn’t right.
 
mscard88 said:
Woman at the flight school was doing her instrument check in her father's Lance. She couldn't produce a list of ADs so the DRE could check they had been complied with in the maintenance logbooks. Discontinuance. I don't know if this is a personal things w/ this DPE or not. The flight school is aware of it and provides lists of ADs for their planes. Man she was hot too, and a dentist. Made my teeth hurt looking at her in those tight jeans. :)
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I thought you were from Alabama. Only an Arkansan could get excited over a woman with no teeth. :D
 
mscard88 said:
I dunno 'Dog. Apparently this DPE wants a separate listing of ADs applicable to that airplane. Regardless that they're in the logbooks, in addition to so he can cross check I guess.
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My IA always kept an updated AD list in my maintenance logs. Makes his life easier as well.
neilw2 said:
Slight tangent- Do you really believe the FAA expects pilots to perform a AD verification each time they fly an aircraft?
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I would say the FAA believes a pilot should do what is necessary to verify airworthiness. AD's don't suddenly come up overnight, so checking on some form of a regular basis is probably acceptable.

Anyways I have always brought logbooks for inspection on check rides. I have never had a DPE make me show him where the ADs were complied with. The only thing they ever looked for was just a sign off on the annual/100 hr so I can show him I understand how to do that.
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I think the FAA has stepped up their checking for pilot understanding of maintenance requirements. Too many instances of "I didn't know that" with the implied "nor do I care".
 
mscard88 said:
It wasn't that Bob, he wanted a list of ADs applicable to the plane so he could check that they were complied with in the logs. The flight school knows and provides a list as they use this DPE a lot. She was using her Dad's plane.
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Altho I've only had once checkride in my cherokee, the DE didn't ask for the AD list, only the logbooks that stated the ADs were complied with. Was this DE trying to make a point, or is this common practice?
 
murphey said:
Altho I've only had once checkride in my cherokee, the DE didn't ask for the AD list, only the logbooks that stated the ADs were complied with. Was this DE trying to make a point, or is this common practice?
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I can't count the number of times I've seen a logbook statement that all ADs have been complied when they weren't. Show me the list.
 
murphey said:
Altho I've only had once checkride in my cherokee, the DE didn't ask for the AD list, only the logbooks that stated the ADs were complied with. Was this DE trying to make a point, or is this common practice?
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Ditto, for my instrument ride. Just checked the annual sign-off. I had all the logbooks with me but if he had asked for an AD list, I would have had to tell him that I left it at home. Still, it's apparently the examiner's prerogative to ask for an updated AD list to make absolutely certain they're all complied with. Sounds very hard-a$$ though.
 
I had a separate list of ADs that were part of the MX records. Updated at annual every year with uadditions and compliance info. Not in the logbook per-se, but part of the records. From my standpoint, no big deal.
 
Anymouse said:
I'm curious, was the flight school aware of this requirement?
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LOL yeah, but it wasn't a flight school plane, was her dad's. Perhaps the CFI should have known as he instructs for the flight school, but if so I'm sure it was just an oversight on his part.
 
Hope the examiner,doesn't need dental work ,in the near future. Really no big loss ,if he doesn't charge his fee.
 
flyingron said:
List of ADs? The fact that the annual was signed off is certification that the ADs have been dealt with. The only thing that could happen is a newly issued one came out after the annual but I don't see how a "list" in the log books addresses that.

The DPE is on some sort of power trip.
Click to expand...

That.
 
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