Industrial engineers in the house?

Ken Ibold

Ken Ibold

Final Approach
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Ken Ibold
My son is a college freshman in engineering. All his life he's been interested in robotics and has participated in competition robotics for 10 years. Anyway, his current thinking bounces between mechanical engineering and industrial engineering. He asked me to look around for some industrial engineers who might be willing to talk to him about what that career might be like. Email to kibold @ rocketmail.com.

Thanks!
 
you will find many people with mechanical engineering degrees working alongside people with degrees in industrial, civil, chemical, metallurgical, aerospace, or virtually any other flavor of engineering, doing the same jobs. The opposite is not true.
 
At UW you have to first have a mechanical or civil engineering degree before you can get an industrial engineering degree.
 
I'm an EE. Mech Eng is more associated with Mat-Sci and various materials properties. Industrial eng is more associated with process control. Process improvement, closed loop and open loop processes, QC, large scale mfg controls, and stuff like that. My daughter is a chem eng student, and works in mat-sci some. Very little process control.
 
I have my degree in industrial engineering. And I find the automotive recycling business to use a great deal of what I learned in school.

Quality control (possess and quantification), facilities layup and design, management of staff and business from an engineering viewpoint, safety, process improvement, time studies, and more.

IE was a good fit for me as it provided a nice wide range of topics that fit my interest and an equally wide range of eventual career paths.
 
Hi Ken. A current trend is in bio-medical engineering in the Memphis area, probably because we have several bio-med companies. My thinking (I am a civil) is that the bio-medical field is probably a branch off of mechanical, as (in my thinking) is industrial. Back in the dark ages when I was in school, we had civil, mechanical, chemical and electrical. Now it seems there is a lot more specialization, and a bonafide degree for each specialization area. My advice to your son would be to stay more broad at this point in his studies, maybe mechanical if that is where his interests lie, and narrow his focus later.
 
Mechanical Engineering is more related to the design of machinery like motors, robots, cars, airplanes, washing machines etc. Industrial Engineering is more related to the manufacturing process of products. Like plant layout, process establishment and control, quality control, EPA and government compliance related issues. A Computer software engineer is in high demand today with starting salaries of $100K for some specialties. Unlike the old days of vacuum tube designs most of a product functions today reside on the software. The same microprocessor used in a laptop could be the same one used to control a UAV. If I were your son I would look into Computer Engineering also

José
 
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I should add about my industry.... It's a perfect place to practice "buy low, sell high" economics. Not many places out there where a common COGS is 0.45 with 4 to 4.5 turns per year, and a recession is welcomed.
 
ME's have had it tough for several years. Some have transitioned in to CE's. Industrial Engineering can be both a thankless and rewarding career depending on who you get hooked up with. If you can stick with aerospace or automotive engineering great. Otherwise, keep your options open.
 
The first sheepskin on my wall says Bachelor of Science in Engineering (Industrial Engineering). However, I was an ORSA guy, so I'm not sure it's relevant to what your son wants to do, but feel free to call (and I know you have my number). If I don't answer the next couple of weeks, it's because I'm in Peru (leaving Thursday) and my Verizon phone can't hear you there.
 
I've got a BS in IE from Georgia Tech. I'd be very happy to talk with your son when I get back from a business trip to Mexico. I'll drop you contact info offline.
 
The paper gets you in the door, after that, it up to you.

I would lean toward mechanical (with as many control system electives as he can cram in). But, I are a mechanical engineer, so I'm probably biased.

If he really, really, likes robotics, there are a few schools offering B.S. Robotics Engineering degrees - or Mechatronics Engineering.

FWIW...

Working in a large industrial plant and dealing with actual production can be high stress, long hours, etc. It costs amazing dollars per hour for a plant to be down - the pressure is on to fix it. Some people thrive in that kind of environment. Many do not. Personally, I do NOT miss having to deal with automobile assembly plants and their problems any more (and that was just a small part of what I did).
 
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JHW said:
you will find many people with mechanical engineering degrees working alongside people with degrees in industrial, civil, chemical, metallurgical, aerospace, or virtually any other flavor of engineering, doing the same jobs. The opposite is not true.
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+1 but add BSEE

Sounds to me like he has the smarts to get a BSEE with emphasis in controls and computers. Biased, of course, I am an EE. However, my design and manufacturing firm employees 20 EE, 3 ME, and 2 IE. It is no secret that heavy manufacturing is not a 'high-growth' area in the USA. As stated earlier, working a plant floor is a very high-stress job with awful hours and economically driven crappy pay.

While many firms employ robots to perform repetative manufacturing tasks; the robots are typically "off the shelf" units with special tools designed as required. Maintaining the robots is not an engineering activity; technicians typically handle the day-day maintenance and minor programming changes. The selection, installation and initial programming is an 'engineering' activity but this is typically outsourced to an factory automation house with the resident IE providing the SOW and oversight. FWIW if he wants to go into IE and actual "design" he should consider working for a Factory Automation firm not a manufacturing plant. But again, not a high growth area so not many jobs to be had. My $0.02.
 
Baron2PG said:
While many firms employ robots to perform repetative manufacturing tasks; the robots are typically "off the shelf" units with special tools designed as required. Maintaining the robots is not an engineering activity; technicians typically handle the day-day maintenance and minor programming changes. The selection, installation and initial programming is an 'engineering' activity but this is typically outsourced to an factory automation house with the resident IE providing the SOW and oversight. FWIW if he wants to go into IE and actual "design" he should consider working for a Factory Automation firm not a manufacturing plant. But again, not a high growth area so not many jobs to be had. My $0.02.
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The big industrial robotics companies with a presence in S.E. Michigan (Comau, Fanuc, Kuka, etc.) seem to be looking for engineers. They have some pretty cool facilities here.
 
May be wrong, but I think Lance Flynn can offer some useful insight.
 
Don't discard the idea of electrical in terms of the robotics stuff. Motors and controllers drive robotics.

That said, given the relatively low numbers of folks interested in STEM these days, and the demand for said folks going forward, the market should look pretty good by graduation (assuming, of course, that the folks pulling the puppet strings in DC from both parties manage to avoid destruction of the business climate here). If interested, I can probably put him in touch with a couple of folks in our organization that can talk to him... they're mostly electrical, but there is some cross-over
 
Which ever branch of engineering he takes on, remind him to consider any program that gives the opportunity to intern with a company during his upper classmen years.

A dorm mate who was an IE did this for 6-months in his junior year and got on with NASA down in Houston. He made some good money, even better people connections, and upon graduation, was quickly hired by the folks he worked with.
 
Would there be any "apprentice" style opportunities for this young man before he is forced to commit to a program?

Rather than go through 3+ years of schooling hoping this is going to be the career he enjoys, could he wait for a year to do college and work in the industry(ies) he wishes to target?

I think this idea would benefit many from the standpoint of:
  • Save big money and time if it's not something they will be happy with
  • Gives them a chance to build some maturity by being in the real world and workforce versus going from sheltered education environment (high school) to sheltered environment with more parties (college)
  • Gives them a chance to save some money to pay for schooling.
  • Builds connections and potential mentors
 
AggieMike88 said:
Which ever branch of engineering he takes on, remind him to consider any program that gives the opportunity to intern with a company during his upper classmen years.

A dorm mate who was an IE did this for 6-months in his junior year and got on with NASA down in Houston. He made some good money, even better people connections, and upon graduation, was quickly hired by the folks he worked with.
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I second this suggestion. When he looks for a job, internships will make the connections he needs and give him a huge leg up on the others.
 
What's his favorite part of the robotics program he is involved in? What part of the building and planning does he gravitate towards? I am assuming this is FIRST?
 
jhausch said:
What's his favorite part of the robotics program he is involved in? What part of the building and planning does he gravitate towards? I am assuming this is FIRST?
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We started out in FIRST Lego League, and then he "graduated" to FIRST in high school. He loved it. The team he was on heavily emphasized the kids doing the work hands on. So many of the teams just have the kids watch while the parents do the work. Still, his team won the southeast regional champs three times in the four years he was there. He did some software, didn't like how isolating it was. I think his favorite was machining the parts and doing the as-built changes to the CAD files. He actually was quite the perfectionist on the metal lathe. Definitely a hands-on kind of guy.
 
Ken Ibold said:
He did some software, didn't like how isolating it was. I think his favorite was machining the parts and doing the as-built changes to the CAD files. He actually was quite the perfectionist on the metal lathe. Definitely a hands-on kind of guy.
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sounds like a potential prototyper in the works. Similar to this TV show: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prototype_This!
 
Ken Ibold said:
We started out in FIRST Lego League, and then he "graduated" to FIRST in high school. He loved it. The team he was on heavily emphasized the kids doing the work hands on. So many of the teams just have the kids watch while the parents do the work. Still, his team won the southeast regional champs three times in the four years he was there. He did some software, didn't like how isolating it was. I think his favorite was machining the parts and doing the as-built changes to the CAD files. He actually was quite the perfectionist on the metal lathe. Definitely a hands-on kind of guy.
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Might be able to help. I will try to remember to ask the better half. He is:

Mech Eng

and

Manufacturing Engineer

oh and the garage is filled with HUGE machines. So yes, design / build / you name it.


Kimberly
 
Ken -- fired you an email offline. Ping me back when you get time, I'm glad to help your son out however I can.

Cheers,

-Andrew
 
Ken Ibold said:
We started out in FIRST Lego League, and then he "graduated" to FIRST in high school. He loved it. The team he was on heavily emphasized the kids doing the work hands on. So many of the teams just have the kids watch while the parents do the work. Still, his team won the southeast regional champs three times in the four years he was there. He did some software, didn't like how isolating it was. I think his favorite was machining the parts and doing the as-built changes to the CAD files. He actually was quite the perfectionist on the metal lathe. Definitely a hands-on kind of guy.
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(sorry for all the questions)

Did he turn into a component, group, or team "leader"?

Did he teach others or did he prefer to do his own work?

What got him excited during build season?

What got him excited abut FIRST off-season?

Did he make any good mentor-friends on the team?

Is he mentoring a HS team now?

If he does not have time for a team now, has is sought out the closest regional event committee?

(those last three are great ways to build your professional network, too)
 
I have been told since day one of college: for your bachelors go general for example mechanical or chemical then once you find something you really like and get experience in it go specific with your masters for example aeronautical or automotive.

My $0.005
 
Seanaldinho said:
I have been told since day one of college: for your bachelors go general for example mechanical or chemical then once you find something you really like and get experience in it go specific with your masters for example aeronautical or automotive.

My $0.005
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Just pointing out that approach will double the time required for the Masters since the core undergrad classes will have to be covered prior to the Masters grad coursework.

The best thing to do is figure it out before investing in post-secondary education. Yup, it's not the traditional route but it is much better.
 
One of these guys is a Mechanical Engineer...

$425K base salary, with 150% of base pay bonus this year, and 70% bonus next, dependent upon financials, plus stock and stock option grants, and guaranteed vesting of everything -- if the company changes hands.

Meanwhile, the all non-management employees of the Corporation are on a year long announced salary freeze. Yup.

Teach your kid how to be as ruthless as this, he'll be golden. The Mechanical Engineering part doesn't even matter. The math will just help your kid track his net worth in a spreadsheet.

http://biz.yahoo.com/e/120919/syke8-k.html

Or as Mel Brooks puts it, "It's good to be the King!"

(Yes, that's my employer. And yes, everyone in my department including my bosses have read the above and find it reprehensible behavior. What'cha going to do? We all know a) Exactly where our place in the pecking order at the food trough is, and b) Exactly what he thinks of all of us. And I'd rather be right there, knowing what the score really is -- than it be a secret. The stock and options grants are still a secret of course. We play along when he says we're all part of the same "team" and "family".)

Look up your company's 8K filings and other entertaining stuff on EDGAR sometime. It's always entertaining to compare reality to what's stated in "team" events.

These people live in a different world.

Did I mention that during the merger, they "lost" my Engineer title? As a friend said, "To them, it's just a word. To you, it's something you earned." Yeah. 20 years to have some HR wonk change my title to "Admin". I'm not a title chaser, but that's just rude. Show me the money, you can call me "Internet Janitor"... I really don't care... but with the above information factored in... why not be insulted? :mad:

Anyway, figure out how to teach the kid how to pretend they have Asberger's Syndrome and find a way to get them into so-called "leadership". No point in working under the same rules as the riff-raff staff. LOL... leadership used to mean doing the things you expected your people to do... no more.
 
AggieMike88 said:
Which ever branch of engineering he takes on, remind him to consider any program that gives the opportunity to intern with a company during his upper classmen years.

A dorm mate who was an IE did this for 6-months in his junior year and got on with NASA down in Houston. He made some good money, even better people connections, and upon graduation, was quickly hired by the folks he worked with.
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It's not who you know but rather who knows you.
 
gismo said:
It's not who you know but rather who knows you.
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Big agreement to that!! Much of my fresh business comes from referrals, so your statement is very apt.
 
2ymyjy9y.jpg
 
The Balloonist

A man in a hot air balloon realized he was lost. He reduced altitude and spotted a man below. He descended a bit more and shouted, "Excuse me, can you help me? I promised a friend I would meet him half an hour ago, but I don't know where I am."

The man below replied, "You are in a hot air balloon hovering approximately 30 feet about the ground. You are between 42 and 44 degrees north latitude and between 83 and 85 degrees west longitude."

"You must be an engineer," said the balloonist.
"I am," replied the man, "but how did you know?"

"Well," answered the balloonist, "everything you told me is technically correct, but I have no idea what to make of your information, and the fact is I am still lost."

The man below responded, "You must be a manager."
"I am," replied the balloonist, "how did you know?"

"Well," said the man, "you don't know where you are or where you are going. You made a promise which you have no idea how to keep, and you expect me to solve your problem. The fact is you are exactly in the same position you were in before we met, but now, somehow, it's my fault."
 
kgruber said:
At UW you have to first have a mechanical or civil engineering degree before you can get an industrial engineering degree.
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Why would anyone want to go to the uw in the first place? :D

I'll second the earlier suggestion of trying for internships while in school. My employer uses the program to identify candidates to hire as regular employees when they graduate. And we've had some top notch interns work for us. I had an internship (co-op program) working for a contractor building a hydroelectric dam when I was in college. Haven't worked heavy construction since, but stuff I learned on that job has been useful in my career. Learning is always a good thing.

BSEE, Washington State University. GO COUGS!!!
 
Hey this is Steven, Ken's son. I need to write a paper this semester for my English class, but first it needs to be pitched to the teacher. She told us (the class) to look for interesting topics that people in our majors were writing about. Since I'm going for industrial engineering, I was hoping that instead of just google-ing with no clear direction and hoping to stumble upon something good, why not ask some people who have experience in the field?

Here's what the assignment says:
1) Find out what is being written by people who work in your major. List the various genres written in your field. To get this list, talk to someone teaching in your major. Ask about the genre the faculty writes, but also what those working in the field write. (Genre = essays, reports, field studies, grant proposals, and so on.)

2) What do people write about? What topics are being talked about in your chosen field? Make a list of topics you are interested in, based on your field. I suggest you consult the same person mentioned in 1 above; ask what topics are being researched.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
 
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Hi Steven,

Reading the description of what the teacher is looking for strikes me as an odd request for Industrial Engineers. I suppose because a teacher is asking, the lens being looked through assumes the teachers are the most informed and addressing the key issues of the day.... I am not sure that is as true for IE as it would be for, say, a medical research field.... (but, what do I know - this is just my opinion)

My first thought when I read, "Find out what is being written by people who work in your major." I thought, "whaa?" "industrial engineers are writing emails and capex proposals!" - then thought, "hmm, maybe articles for trade magazines, I suppose?".

I was formulating a response that I thought might point you in a direction to better understand the field, meet some folks, and explain to the teacher that industrial engineers are to busy producing to write scholarly articles....; but then thought, maybe just give the teacher what s/he wants....

Google: industrial engineering professor

Follow the links to the college sites, click through a few bios. The bios will list areas of interest, research, and, in some cases, provide links to publications....

Good luck - we're all counting on you*

(*aviation reference - ask your dad about that quote :) )
 
Yeah that's what I thought too. "What is it an industrial engineer would write about?" I could understand how it might be easier for other students in other majors to find scholarly articles, since it is a gen-ed class, though.

As a last resort, there was option 3, which was to find a non-major related topic that interested us. No matter what, I think she said this would be a semester-long paper so I need to find something that I won't be tired of reading in 3 week's time. Thanks for giving me at least some direction to work in, though!

-Steven
 
Since an IE can work in a variety of field and businesses, how about a paper covering 2 or 3 of the more unusual applications? Show how well we fit into some non-traditional businesses and places.
 
Ron Levy said:
The first sheepskin on my wall says Bachelor of Science in Engineering (Industrial Engineering). However, I was an ORSA guy, so I'm not sure it's relevant to what your son wants to do, but feel free to call (and I know you have my number). If I don't answer the next couple of weeks, it's because I'm in Peru (leaving Thursday) and my Verizon phone can't hear you there.
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I hope you are going for fun. Have a good trip. Be safe.
 
Ken Ibold said:
Yeah that's what I thought too. "What is it an industrial engineer would write about?" I could understand how it might be easier for other students in other majors to find scholarly articles, since it is a gen-ed class, though.

As a last resort, there was option 3, which was to find a non-major related topic that interested us. No matter what, I think she said this would be a semester-long paper so I need to find something that I won't be tired of reading in 3 week's time. Thanks for giving me at least some direction to work in, though!

-Steven
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Hi Steven,

My son Kenny is a EE, was going for Computer E but it would take too long and he didn't like the programming classes.

Here are few ideas to write on:

1. I keep seeing the investment opportunity of a new continued expected technology changes in a type of 3D laser printer that can manufacture any part and how technology in that is going to revolutionize manufacturing....this seems more related to process/mfg Engineering.

2. What I've always been interested in is Completely flexible manufacturing where you could setup to produce a single or few items and then setup to produce something completely different...

3. Just like you can scan a document, optically recognize it and covert it to a word document; what is the prospects of laser recognizing 3D objects into your system and having the measurements converted into a Catia program for one off manufacturing or duplication of parts?

These topics seem interesting in process as well as have ramifications for the near future of manufacturing in US.

Good Luck
 
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