ILS Approaches against the winds/pattern?

overdrive148

overdrive148

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overdrive148
Currently watching a jet do ILS approaches against the pattern and winds (12g16).

Without the intention of creating another threadnaught about whether to report aircraft/pilots or not, is that legal at non-towered airports? Sure it's the wild west when it comes to pilots but this seems a bit more serious.

No traffic on the ground or in the pattern that is making radio calls that I can see, but my worry is any NORDO guys hanging around. Jet's been doing low approaches at a pretty quick clip.

Am I crazy or does this seem like something dangerous :dunno:

See and avoid is great and all but a bugsmasher with a headwind vs a jet with a tailwind at low approach speed doesn't seem very safe.
 
Don't report him.

He probably just shot the only ILS in there, circle to land.

Nothing to see here, move along.
 
Shot two approaches and did not circle to land, he's gone now from the sounds of it unless he's maneuvering to the north for another. Otherwise, CAVU and and 15g18 now.

Haven't said anything about reporting him yet, I'm just wondering if that's legal or even acceptable to ILS against the pattern and winds.
 
overdrive148 said:
Shot two approaches and did not circle to land, he's gone now from the sounds of it unless he's maneuvering to the north for another. Otherwise, CAVU and and 15g18 now.

Haven't said anything about reporting him yet, I'm just wondering if that's legal or even acceptable to ILS against the pattern and winds.
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Probably just his 6mo checkride.

The troubles of basing yourself out of a quite airport that happens to have an ILS.
 
Sure it's legal. Some airports have only one IAP for a particular runway. Used to do opposite direction traffic a lot at KEDN.

Sometimes the pilot requires a particular approach to meet training requirements. Couple months ago I did some ILS at an airport for auto pilot training. We went to the closest airport with an ILS without regard to winds. We did use courtesy with others in the pattern and broke off our approach if we heard someone departing.

It's about communications, cooperation and scanning for traffic.
 
overdrive148 said:
Currently watching a jet do ILS approaches against the pattern and winds (12g16).

Without the intention of creating another threadnaught about whether to report aircraft/pilots or not, is that legal at non-towered airports? Sure it's the wild west when it comes to pilots but this seems a bit more serious.

No traffic on the ground or in the pattern that is making radio calls that I can see, but my worry is any NORDO guys hanging around. Jet's been doing low approaches at a pretty quick clip.

Am I crazy or does this seem like something dangerous :dunno:

See and avoid is great and all but a bugsmasher with a headwind vs a jet with a tailwind at low approach speed doesn't seem very safe.
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I've seen it done by a guy on a checkride. I was flying into Riverton WY, making my calls when some guy in a Saberliner (!) makes an inbound call. He's on an approach which will have a downwind landing for a touch-n-go. I suggest he listen to the AWOS again 'cause the wind just switched and I figured he'd like to know that he was landing downwind. He did it anyway and I stayed out of his way. Then I asked him what was he doing burning all that gas and he said he was on a check ride.
 
Before they got a tower, KHQZ frequently had practice approaches going on in opposite directions at the same time. I was always antsy when visiting there. :yikes:
 
You're at Shawnee, KSNL?
Winds out of the north?
Jet was doing the ILS or LOC to 17 (not available to 35)?

Definitely sic the cops on him.
 
roncachamp said:
Yes.
You're crazy.
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And then I decided I was a lemon for a couple of weeks. :goofy:

James331 said:
Probably just his 6mo checkride.

The troubles of basing yourself out of a quite airport that happens to have an ILS.
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Actually, as it turns out, it was an FAA flight check aircraft most likely testing the ILS :eek:

Velocity173 said:
Sure it's legal. Some airports have only one IAP for a particular runway. Used to do opposite direction traffic a lot at KEDN.

Sometimes the pilot requires a particular approach to meet training requirements. Couple months ago I did some ILS at an airport for auto pilot training. We went to the closest airport with an ILS without regard to winds. We did use courtesy with others in the pattern and broke off our approach if we heard someone departing.

It's about communications, cooperation and scanning for traffic.
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I would just think that if it came down to it, they'd wait a day for the winds to be favorable for an ILS approach instead of putting the bullet up the barrel. I was paying close attention to the taxiways and radios to make sure no one was going to be departing to the north into him, but still. I'm sure if they heard something that they'd deviate but they flew the ILS all the way down the runway on the deck. It turned out to be an FAA flight check aircraft so I guess it must be a usual thing. :dunno:

Clark1961 said:
I've seen it done by a guy on a checkride. I was flying into Riverton WY, making my calls when some guy in a Saberliner (!) makes an inbound call. He's on an approach which will have a downwind landing for a touch-n-go. I suggest he listen to the AWOS again 'cause the wind just switched and I figured he'd like to know that he was landing downwind. He did it anyway and I stayed out of his way. Then I asked him what was he doing burning all that gas and he said he was on a check ride.
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Eeesh. The front was passing earlier today and at first I thought he had just not had current wind info but he did it again. I guess when you gotta checkride, you gotta checkride.

N5922S said:
Before they got a tower, KHQZ frequently had practice approaches going on in opposite directions at the same time. I was always antsy when visiting there. :yikes:
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That kind of thing makes me think there's gotta be a rule about it but I guess if there isn't, there isn't. Must be a nightmare :(

JoeSelch said:
You're at Shawnee, KSNL?
Winds out of the north?
Jet was doing the ILS or LOC to 17 (not available to 35)?

Definitely sic the cops on him.
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Yeah, see that part about "didnt say anything about reporting him" and "not to make this another thread about whether to report or not"?

I know we only have instrument approaches for 17 instead of 35.
 
I do it with my students every day. I'll even shoot it with traffic taking off if their cool with it.

Nothing illegal about it. Most airports that have an ILS, only have one.

You see a lot of opposite approaches especially if your at an airport with the only ILS for miles around.
 
ARFlyer said:
I do it with my students every day. I'll even shoot it with traffic taking off if their cool with it.

Nothing illegal about it. Most airports that have an ILS, only have one.

You see a lot of opposite approaches especially if your at an airport with the only ILS for miles around.
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We are fairly small and usually pretty quiet and as a result we do get a lot of aircraft doing flight check and other practice approaches (twin turbos/jets for flight check, guard helicopters for ILS approaches), so I guess that would explain it :yes:
 
What makes you think YOUR direction of flight is any more correct than his. At any time at an uncontrolled airport you have to assume there might be people operating at on any runway.
 
flyingron said:
What makes you think YOUR direction of flight is any more correct than his. At any time at an uncontrolled airport you have to assume there might be people operating at on any runway.
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I get that with winds light and variable I would be cautious no matter what, but over 10-15kt and gusting directly down the pipe? I wouldn't think anyone else would be shooting approaches the other way.
 
Why would it be illegal?
Don't get your panties in a knot, not everything needs to be reported just because you think it does.
Lighten up and go on with your life.
 
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overdrive148 said:
Actually, as it turns out, it was an FAA flight check aircraft most likely testing the ILS :eek:
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Normally I'd suggest MYOFB, but in light of this info I'll make an exception. Turn the bastards in.:lol:
 
overdrive148 said:
I get that with winds light and variable I would be cautious no matter what, but over 10-15kt and gusting directly down the pipe? I wouldn't think anyone else would be shooting approaches the other way.
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Are you familiar with circling approaches?
 
I do it all the time at non-towered. Although I try to be courteous if there is other traffic in the pattern. Generally I will break off before 200 AGL.

I practice it all the time at towered as well. It's not uncommon to have two aircraft approaching opposite sides of the same runway. As long as we both don't try to land at the same time it is fine.

I always thought that PP should teach some IFR procedures, at least the concept of them. Many published approaches are straight in. I try to be sensitive to others, as calling inside wolfe ILS 9 inbound, for the most part means nothing to VFR pilots. Practice approaches in my opinion are best if they are followed all the way in.

I have broken off many practice approaches due to other traffic.
 
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We also do it at our airport all the time -- same situation as yours. In this case, if you had reported it, you may have suddenly found yourself being checked up on for some reason :).
 
The pilot has the choice of ,what approach to fly ,once vmc, they are responsible to see and avoid other traffic. Happens all the time on circle to land approaches. On my ATP ride flew into an airport against traffic as part of the ride.
 
N5922S said:
Before they got a tower, KHQZ frequently had practice approaches going on in opposite directions at the same time. I was always antsy when visiting there. :yikes:
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KHQZ has a back course localizer approach which makes it a popular destination for against-the-flow approaches. Not many back course approaches left anymore.
If I want to practice one there I go over at night when I know there's no one else in the pattern.
 
Boy wonder at it again. Hope the Flight Check did not overfly your girlfriend.

FSDO will we anxiously awaiting your video. Sigh.
 
I do it too.....if you report me.....I WILL FIND YOU AND TP YOUR HOUSE!!!:D
 
SteveCanyon said:
KHQZ has a back course localizer approach which makes it a popular destination for against-the-flow approaches. Not many back course approaches left anymore.
If I want to practice one there I go over at night when I know there's no one else in the pattern.
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I sometimes do the same thing for the same reasons. Small world.

My best kept secret is KGVT. All the approaches including BC, even TACANs. I can knock out full proficiency at one place. Great facility and much less traffic than Mesquite.
 
Several years ago I seem to remember the FAA attempted to put a stop to all opposite direction arrival/departure procedures at Part 139 airports. That's about 544 airports. The following link indicated the ATO policy was effective on August 7, 2012 and cancelled on August 6, 2013. Definitely indicates it has been a problem in the past.

http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Notice/N7110.596.pdf

The following from an AOPA article dated August 7, 2012. By Jim Moore:

The suspension of opposite direction arrival and departure procedures follows a July 31 incident atRonald Reagan Washington National Airport in which an inbound commuter flight was cleared to approach at roughly the same time clearances were issued to a pair of outbound flights headed into the same airspace. The apparent mistake is under investigation, and FAA officials have emphasized that the flights were never on a collision course. According to an Associated Press account, the two aircraft at closest approach were separated by 800 vertical feet and nine-tenths of a mile laterally, less than the 1,000 vertical feet and 3.5-mile lateral separation required.
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I definitely have been denied or delayed shooting a practice approach to a towered airport that was landing the other direction. I was delayed nearly 20 minutes on my instrument checkride before I could shoot the ILS. The controllers all complained about the FAA really tying their hands on it.


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Was basically asking the legality of the situation, not whether to report. I have my doubts about safety aspect but they did it and nothing happened and they were FAA, so :dunno:

Thanks for all the input. I guess it happens a lot more often than I thought.
 
bluesky74656 said:
I definitely have been denied or delayed shooting a practice approach to a towered airport that was landing the other direction. I was delayed nearly 20 minutes on my instrument checkride before I could shoot the ILS. The controllers all complained about the FAA really tying their hands on it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Just recently KARR has had a rule with no opposite practice approaches. They only have one functioning ILS at the moment. The controllers there feel the same way.

On my IR check ride, and for countless practice approaches, we flew the ILS 9 when traffic was landing on 27.
 
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